The DOGE Clown Show

[Univee2]

I haven’t read a whole lot about this. I know Alito wrote a dissent.

But, just on the face of it, it seems to me like the federal government should be paying its bills for any goods received or services rendered.

I know there’s more underlying this re: the limits of executive authority, etc. But it just seems right to me that, if the contracted goods/services have been satisfactorily furnished, then the Feds should be paying what they had agreed to pay for them.

In two different companies, thirty years apart, VA hospitals were horrible wrt to paying invoices. 120-150 days was the norm. In the earlier instance, I had to go over to the hospital and go through all the boxes/cases on the dock and receive them into their system in order to complete orders so outstanding POs/invoices could be processed. A monthly process that usually took about a day and a half. Now, I did account for this in our pricing, but there was no serious reason for this to be the standard procedure.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

In two different companies, thirty years apart, VA hospitals were horrible wrt to paying invoices. 120-150 days was the norm. In the earlier instance, I had to go over to the hospital and go through all the boxes/cases on the dock and receive them into their system in order to complete orders so outstanding POs/invoices could be processed. A monthly process that usually took about a day and a half. Now, I did account for this in our pricing, but there was no serious reason for this to be the standard procedure.

While I certainly can’t disagree with that, is slow-payment (likely) due to bureaucratic inefficiencies the issue here?

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

I haven’t read a whole lot about this. I know Alito wrote a dissent.

But, just on the face of it, it seems to me like the federal government should be paying its bills for any goods received or services rendered.

I know there’s more underlying this re: the limits of executive authority, etc. But it just seems right to me that, if the contracted goods/services have been satisfactorily furnished, then the Feds should be paying what they had agreed to pay for them.

Quaint notions of what is “just” and “lawful” have no place on the Supreme Court. Not with who Democrat’s have been nominating.

 

[toastedbread]

It’s a violation of the Anti-Deficiency Act not to pay contractors for satisfactory performance of service or goods rendered.

No I don't believe it's a violation of the anti-deficiency act, though it likely violated some other statue. The anti-deficiency act prevents unauthorized obligation. E.g. you can't obligate the government for funds that don't exist. A simple example is that someone from DoD without signatory authority and approved funding cannot direct Lockheed to produce X, Y, Z. Unless you are referring to the inability of the government to accept voluntary services without charge?

This strikes me that the money is obligated, but we are simply refusing to pay. I guess prompt payments Act and 14th Amendment may come into play. Not a federal contracts lawyer.

 

[toastedbread]

I haven’t read a whole lot about this. I know Alito wrote a dissent.

But, just on the face of it, it seems to me like the federal government should be paying its bills for any goods received or services rendered.

I know there’s more underlying this re: the limits of executive authority, etc. But it just seems right to me that, if the contracted goods/services have been satisfactorily furnished, then the Feds should be paying what they had agreed to pay for them.

It's a very dangerous precedent. And will increase the premium the government pays on future contracts as described below.

In two different companies, thirty years apart, VA hospitals were horrible wrt to paying invoices. 120-150 days was the norm. In the earlier instance, I had to go over to the hospital and go through all the boxes/cases on the dock and receive them into their system in order to complete orders so outstanding POs/invoices could be processed. A monthly process that usually took about a day and a half. Now, I did account for this in our pricing, but there was no serious reason for this to be the standard procedure.

In theory the government should pay less for supplies in services due to size, etc. A government contract should also in theory be risk free from default. If the government defaults the world is coming to an end. In reality, we often pay a premium due to issues like what you have described. The pool of players who figure out to work the government game sure make a killing though. There's a better chance of Jesus walking on water tomorrow than DOGE solving any of these issues.

 

[Univee2]

While I certainly can’t disagree with that, is slow-payment (likely) due to bureaucratic inefficiencies the issue here?

Both bureaucratic lethargy and on-the-ground incompetence. Receiving dock work is pretty simple, provided you can read. Matching receiving documents and POs and moving everything to A/P and processing payments is pretty basic. There was no concern about the process being done expeditiously. I would venture that patient care suffered and the prices they paid were higher.

Later, in another situation, I received RFPs from all levels of government. Some counties were fine. Cincinnati, Hamilton County and the Feds packages I pitched, for various reasons. But one of the main reasons was that the request package always stated that the rewarded bidder should not expect payment on any invoice for at least 90 days. GE Aircraft Engines was the same but they didn’t have the other onerous provisions of the government packages.

It’s all a different mindset with government deals. It’s why I know there is an abnormal amount of waste. Maybe not fraud, but it seems that one person in the private sector could do the work of three government employees. So, DOGE can do its thing.

And don’t get me started on the FDA, OSHA, the DOL and NIOSH. The stuff of nightmares.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

No I don't believe it's a violation of the anti-deficiency act, though it likely violated some other statue. The anti-deficiency act prevents unauthorized obligation. E.g. you can't obligate the government for funds that don't exist. A simple example is that someone from DoD without signatory authority and approved funding cannot direct Lockheed to produce X, Y, Z. Unless you are referring to the inability of the government to accept voluntary services without charge?

This strikes me that the money is obligated, but we are simply refusing to pay. I guess prompt payments Act and 14th Amendment may come into play. Not a federal contracts lawyer.

I’ve been out of being involved in government contracts since 2012. I may have cited the wrong law, but we are required to pay for services and goods rendered satisfactorily.

 

[toastedbread]

It’s all a different mindset with government deals. It’s why I know there is an abnormal amount of waste. Maybe not fraud, but it seems that one person in the private sector could do the work of three government employees. So, DOGE can do its thing.

This is primarily a Congressional problem that can only be fixed with congressional action unless we just ignore legislation.

 

[Univee2]

This is primarily a Congressional problem that can only be fixed with congressional action unless we just ignore legislation.

Probably so, but how do you legislate quality and efficiency? “Good enough for government work” isn’t just a joke.

 

[toastedbread]

Probably so, but how do you legislate quality and efficiency? “Good enough for government work” isn’t just a joke.

Do you know the phrase you get what you pay for? Double or 1.5x the salary of the 1 worker for 3 and I don't disagree with you.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

I haven’t read a whole lot about this. I know Alito wrote a dissent.

But, just on the face of it, it seems to me like the federal government should be paying its bills for any goods received or services rendered.

I know there’s more underlying this re: the limits of executive authority, etc. But it just seems right to me that, if the contracted goods/services have been satisfactorily furnished, then the Feds should be paying what they had agreed to pay for them.

This is a problem. We have at least two more decades on this woman.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Do you know the phrase you get what you pay for? Double or 1.5x the salary of the 1 worker for 3 and I don't disagree with you.

For years VA service was bad across the board. In the last few years it’s been noticeably better with much shorter delays and better service. Seems it’s time to take a couple steps backwards.

VA to lay off more than 76,000 employees, leaked memo says, amid 2nd wave of Trump firings

The leaked Department of Veterans Affairs memo comes as President Donald Trump ordered a second, larger wave of federal layoffs.

www.usatoday.com

 

[twenty02]

Both bureaucratic lethargy and on-the-ground incompetence. Receiving dock work is pretty simple, provided you can read. Matching receiving documents and POs and moving everything to A/P and processing payments is pretty basic. There was no concern about the process being done expeditiously. I would venture that patient care suffered and the prices they paid were higher.

Later, in another situation, I received RFPs from all levels of government. Some counties were fine. Cincinnati, Hamilton County and the Feds packages I pitched, for various reasons. But one of the main reasons was that the request package always stated that the rewarded bidder should not expect payment on any invoice for at least 90 days. GE Aircraft Engines was the same but they didn’t have the other onerous provisions of the government packages.

It’s all a different mindset with government deals. It’s why I know there is an abnormal amount of waste. Maybe not fraud, but it seems that one person in the private sector could do the work of three government employees. So, DOGE can do its thing.

And don’t get me started on the FDA, OSHA, the DOL and NIOSH. The stuff of nightmares.

Federal Govt has the Prompt Payment Act, if an invoice isn't paid in 30 days it starts accruing interest.

 

[Univee2]

Federal Govt has the Prompt Payment Act, if an invoice isn't paid in 30 days it starts accruing interest.

My work with the VA hospitals was before the Act, mid-70s-early 80s.

 

[BradStevens]

This is a problem. We have at least two more decades on this woman.

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What is a problem? That she doesn't like Trump?