The debate was silly before, but it is now over...

[outside shooter]

Vikings fan Mike Florio lays it out well.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/06/debate-over-tom-brady-is-the-best-ever/

Before Super Bowl LI, plausible arguments could be made for and against the proposition that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback in NFL history. After Sunday night’s game for the ages in Houston, the debate has entered Jerry Rice territory.

For years, there’s been no question that Jerry Rice was the greatest receiver in NFL history. Now, there’s no question as to who the greatest quarterback is and was.

You can try to make an argument against it, out of bias or resentment or jealousy or whatever. You can try, but you’ll fail. With five Super Bowl championships, two other Super Bowl appearances, four Super Bowl MVP trophies, and a run of sustained excellence that has carried him from 199th pick in the 2000 draft to the top of the NFL mountain, Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.

The next question is whether Brady will be regarded as the greatest player at any position, supplanting Rice for that unofficial title. That hinges in large part on whether Brady retires with any, many, or all of the all-time passing records, and whether he continues to play at a high level beyond the age of 40.

At the MVP press conference, Brady said that at age 25 his arm always hurt and that, at 39, it never does. As long as the arm can complement the mind, he’ll be able to keep going.

Yes, Father Time is undefeated. But Brady appears to be ready to give him a fight like he’s never before seen. If anyone doubts his abilities in that regard, they should talk to the Falcons.

 

[crossfire74]

Please go kill yourself......the reason people hate Brady and his team is because of people like you that motorboat ad nauseum about why Brady is this or that.

A blind man knows he's the best ever and could see that well before last night. So STFU and let it rest. I'm sure u and edumbs had a great circle jerk throughout the second half last night. It's just too bad you both didn't go through with the planned mass suicide at half time.

 

[outside shooter]

The Patriots haters are lining up and eating crow:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...t-super-bowl-li-nfl-2017-new-england-patriots

He's the greatest of all time. Period. Full stop.

Not just the greatest quarterback, but the greatest player in NFL history. Jim Brown was transcendent, Jerry Rice put up numbers that may never be broken and Joe Montana never lost on the game's biggest stage. Peyton Manning might finish with more yards or touchdowns, Aaron Rodgers with more jaw-dropping moments. But after Sunday's 34-28 win over the Atlanta Falcons, the greatest magic trick Brady has pulled off in a career full of them, the imaginary GOAT crown sits on Brady's head for the foreseeable future. Maybe forever.

 

[plaxico80]

Yeah, this dude really has mental problems.

For reeelz.

 

[crossfire74]

The Patriots haters are lining up and eating crow:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...t-super-bowl-li-nfl-2017-new-england-patriots

He's the greatest of all time. Period. Full stop.

Not just the greatest quarterback, but the greatest player in NFL history. Jim Brown was transcendent, Jerry Rice put up numbers that may never be broken and Joe Montana never lost on the game's biggest stage. Peyton Manning might finish with more yards or touchdowns, Aaron Rodgers with more jaw-dropping moments. But after Sunday's 34-28 win over the Atlanta Falcons, the greatest magic trick Brady has pulled off in a career full of them, the imaginary GOAT crown sits on Brady's head for the foreseeable future. Maybe forever.

Go swallow a machete.....blade first

 

[Eppy99]

My guess is that Outside Shooter suffers from having a small penis. Just a guess.

 

[edubs1212]

When people get proven wrong time and time again on this board their defense is to attack personally and say kill yourself. Typical blame others for not understanding. Like I said two weeks again after Pitt win. Please please learn football.

I won't defend brady as goat now because it wasn't even a conversation before last night. Now......I take it as a person trying to be funny. Because they can't be serious to say he isn't.

Btw......last night was brady and not belicheck. So don't tell me he is a system qb.

Last night was just something that was undescribable.

Once again......people here need to learn footballl

I'm sure they will come up with a reason to discredit this title also.

 

[T.M.P.]

football sucks ...

 

[IUJIM]

Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player ever as well. See the connection?

 

[crossfire74]

When people get proven wrong time and time again on this board their defense is to attack personally and say kill yourself. Typical blame others for not understanding. Like I said two weeks again after Pitt win. Please please learn football.

I won't defend brady as goat now because it wasn't even a conversation before last night. Now......I take it as a person trying to be funny. Because they can't be serious to say he isn't.

Btw......last night was brady and not belicheck. So don't tell me he is a system qb.

Last night was just something that was undescribable.

Once again......people here need to learn footballl

I'm sure they will come up with a reason to discredit this title also.

hmmmmmmm your boyfriend was proven time and time again to be wrong about deflategate and all he did was get more annoying.

 

[burnthemallralphie]

I wish Shooter spent his time arguing that climate change is real than arguing about who the GOAT is.

We all know that is Peyton Manning. Give Manning Belicheat and he has 8 super bowls.

 

[twenty02]

When people get proven wrong time and time again on this board their defense is to attack personally and say kill yourself. Typical blame others for not understanding. Like I said two weeks again after Pitt win. Please please learn football.

I won't defend brady as goat now because it wasn't even a conversation before last night. Now......I take it as a person trying to be funny. Because they can't be serious to say he isn't.

Btw......last night was brady and not belicheck. So don't tell me he is a system qb.

Last night was just something that was undescribable.

Once again......people here need to learn footballl

I'm sure they will come up with a reason to discredit this title also.

People tell you to kill yourself, only in hopes of improving the human gene pool. It has nothing to do with football.

 

[IU_Cramer]

And in other news water is wet

 

[burnthemallralphie]

Give Joe Montana Belicheat and Montana plays in 7 straight Super Bowls.

 

[Ohio Guy]

best QB? Sure.

Best football player ever? I have a hard time giving that to a drop back passer. I'd say a skill player like Barry Sanders, Walter Payton or Jerry Rice is better. Maybe an all time great linebacker would be up there too.

 

[Lunk]

Vikings fan Mike Florio lays it out well.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/06/debate-over-tom-brady-is-the-best-ever/

Before Super Bowl LI, plausible arguments could be made for and against the proposition that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback in NFL history. After Sunday night’s game for the ages in Houston, the debate has entered Jerry Rice territory.

For years, there’s been no question that Jerry Rice was the greatest receiver in NFL history. Now, there’s no question as to who the greatest quarterback is and was.

You can try to make an argument against it, out of bias or resentment or jealousy or whatever. You can try, but you’ll fail. With five Super Bowl championships, two other Super Bowl appearances, four Super Bowl MVP trophies, and a run of sustained excellence that has carried him from 199th pick in the 2000 draft to the top of the NFL mountain, Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.

The next question is whether Brady will be regarded as the greatest player at any position, supplanting Rice for that unofficial title. That hinges in large part on whether Brady retires with any, many, or all of the all-time passing records, and whether he continues to play at a high level beyond the age of 40.

At the MVP press conference, Brady said that at age 25 his arm always hurt and that, at 39, it never does. As long as the arm can complement the mind, he’ll be able to keep going.

Yes, Father Time is undefeated. But Brady appears to be ready to give him a fight like he’s never before seen. If anyone doubts his abilities in that regard, they should talk to the Falcons.

I see Brady and Montana the same way. They played for great coaches with great systems. I don't think either are the best QB ever. They were in the best situations. If you play QB at Alabama you will look a lot better than if you played for Purdue. Luck of the draw. You don't think Marino or Peyton could win a bunch for Belichick?
Don't get me wrong, both are great but not the GOAT

 

[outside shooter]

Give Joe Montana Belicheat and Montana plays in 7 straight Super Bowls.

Give Belichick no Salary cap and Brady wins 11 super bowls.

current members of the Hall of Fame who won a Super Bowl with Starr, Bradshaw, & Montana: 11, 9, 8
current members of the Hall of Fame who won a Super Bowl with Brady: zero
future members of the Hall of Fame who won a Super Bowl with Brady: perhaps three: Adam V., Ty Law & Rob Gronkowski (Moss & Seau didn't win a ring, Harrison hasn't gotten close, Seymour or Bruschi seem to have little support)

 

[outside shooter]

TB12 Stats
Last Two 4th Qtrs + OT
SB49 and SB51

33:58 minutes played
34-42 (81% completion rate)
370 yds
3 TDs
Passer rating 127.2
39 points scored



normalized to a 60 minute game, that's a pace to pass for 654 yards & 69 points, not a single yard or single point being meaningless

 

[10yrProject]

When people get proven wrong time and time again on this board their defense is to attack personally and say kill yourself. Typical blame others for not understanding. Like I said two weeks again after Pitt win. Please please learn football.

I won't defend brady as goat now because it wasn't even a conversation before last night. Now......I take it as a person trying to be funny. Because they can't be serious to say he isn't.

Btw......last night was brady and not belicheck. So don't tell me he is a system qb.

Last night was just something that was undescribable.

Once again......people here need to learn footballl

I'm sure they will come up with a reason to discredit this title also.

Brady was Luckeee+ last night.

He was well on his way to becoming the "goat" in lowercase.

Up thru the mid 4th he was having one of the worst games of his career.

Overthrows, picks, knock downs.

Without Etlemann (sp?) saving his butt by making what should have been another interception a catch you wouldn't be singing his praises...

If he's smart he'll retire, because if last night is any indication he's on the downhill side of things.

And yeah, I already know about his yardage stats...

The overthrows, knock downs and picks (and near picks) are what you should worry about...

 

[Brockway]

Vikings fan Mike Florio lays it out well.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/06/debate-over-tom-brady-is-the-best-ever/

Before Super Bowl LI, plausible arguments could be made for and against the proposition that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback in NFL history. After Sunday night’s game for the ages in Houston, the debate has entered Jerry Rice territory.

For years, there’s been no question that Jerry Rice was the greatest receiver in NFL history. Now, there’s no question as to who the greatest quarterback is and was.

You can try to make an argument against it, out of bias or resentment or jealousy or whatever. You can try, but you’ll fail. With five Super Bowl championships, two other Super Bowl appearances, four Super Bowl MVP trophies, and a run of sustained excellence that has carried him from 199th pick in the 2000 draft to the top of the NFL mountain, Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.

The next question is whether Brady will be regarded as the greatest player at any position, supplanting Rice for that unofficial title. That hinges in large part on whether Brady retires with any, many, or all of the all-time passing records, and whether he continues to play at a high level beyond the age of 40.

At the MVP press conference, Brady said that at age 25 his arm always hurt and that, at 39, it never does. As long as the arm can complement the mind, he’ll be able to keep going.

Yes, Father Time is undefeated. But Brady appears to be ready to give him a fight like he’s never before seen. If anyone doubts his abilities in that regard, they should talk to the Falcons.

TL;DR
GFY
ESAD

 

[Brockway]

When people get proven wrong time and time again on this board their defense is to attack personally and say kill yourself. Typical blame others for not understanding. Like I said two weeks again after Pitt win. Please please learn football.

I won't defend brady as goat now because it wasn't even a conversation before last night. Now......I take it as a person trying to be funny. Because they can't be serious to say he isn't.

Btw......last night was brady and not belicheck. So don't tell me he is a system qb.

Last night was just something that was undescribable.

Once again......people here need to learn footballl

I'm sure they will come up with a reason to discredit this title also.

TL;DR
GFY
DIAF

 

[outside shooter]

you should worry...

With Gronk returning, Brady to play 16 games not 12, 60 million dollars in cap space to spend, 38 1st, 2nd, and 3Rd year players,

next year will hopefully be a lot more smooth than was this 17-2 season.

 

[jet812]

With Gronk returning, Brady to play 16 games not 12, 60 million dollars in cap space to spend, 38 1st, 2nd, and 3Rd year players,

next year will hopefully be a lot more smooth than was this 17-2 season.

It will be for all of us if you die between now & then...

 

[TommyCracker]

I had this discussion ten years ago and it's still relevant.

Brady isn't the most talented but he's talented enough... He's got something, the same thing that Montana had which is great for younger people to see who didn't have the chance to watch Montana.

Belicheat was horrible in Cleveland and was struggling in New England even with a supremely talented, #1 pick in Drew Bledsoe. The pats sucked with Bledsoe. Brady came in, and like Prescott for the Cowboys won something like 8 straight games.

Then Belicheat became this so called genius.

Brady didnt have hall of fame players around him.
Brady didnt have rules changed for him.
Brady didn't play in a dome half the time.

Brady was talented enough, tall enough and quick enough. However he has that Montana ability to throw a very catchable ball while going through his progressions and making the right read in a matter of seconds more times than not.

He's is the greatest QB like Greg Maddux is the greatest pitcher. It's hard to say because you expect them to be physically overwhelming.

 

[burnthemallralphie]

Shooter, once again, I was trolling you.

 

[outside shooter]

Shooter, once again, I was trolling you.

But there are people out there who genuinely think that Brady is not the GOAT.

At this point those people are Marshall Faulk and two meth-head Colt/Manning fans living in a broken down trailer that is brush-painted blue, sitting outside of Martinsville.

I WILL get through to them, jets812 (Daryl) and his other brother Daryl.

 

[outside shooter]

Sound FX is awesome!

Edelman sitting on the bench, right before the start of the 3Q: "Let's go baby. Gonna be a hell of a story."

Brady: "Hell yeah."

 

[Cream&Crimson]

The Patriots haters are lining up and eating crow:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...t-super-bowl-li-nfl-2017-new-england-patriots

He's the greatest of all time. Period. Full stop.

Not just the greatest quarterback, but the greatest player in NFL history. Jim Brown was transcendent, Jerry Rice put up numbers that may never be broken and Joe Montana never lost on the game's biggest stage. Peyton Manning might finish with more yards or touchdowns, Aaron Rodgers with more jaw-dropping moments. But after Sunday's 34-28 win over the Atlanta Falcons, the greatest magic trick Brady has pulled off in a career full of them, the imaginary GOAT crown sits on Brady's head for the foreseeable future. Maybe forever.

So interesting.

 

[Eppy99]

Vikings fan Mike Florio lays it out well.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/06/debate-over-tom-brady-is-the-best-ever/

Before Super Bowl LI, plausible arguments could be made for and against the proposition that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback in NFL history. After Sunday night’s game for the ages in Houston, the debate has entered Jerry Rice territory.

For years, there’s been no question that Jerry Rice was the greatest receiver in NFL history. Now, there’s no question as to who the greatest quarterback is and was.

You can try to make an argument against it, out of bias or resentment or jealousy or whatever. You can try, but you’ll fail. With five Super Bowl championships, two other Super Bowl appearances, four Super Bowl MVP trophies, and a run of sustained excellence that has carried him from 199th pick in the 2000 draft to the top of the NFL mountain, Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.

The next question is whether Brady will be regarded as the greatest player at any position, supplanting Rice for that unofficial title. That hinges in large part on whether Brady retires with any, many, or all of the all-time passing records, and whether he continues to play at a high level beyond the age of 40.

At the MVP press conference, Brady said that at age 25 his arm always hurt and that, at 39, it never does. As long as the arm can complement the mind, he’ll be able to keep going.

Yes, Father Time is undefeated. But Brady appears to be ready to give him a fight like he’s never before seen. If anyone doubts his abilities in that regard, they should talk to the Falcons.

Who won? Sanders or Cruz?

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Vikings fan Mike Florio lays it out well.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/06/debate-over-tom-brady-is-the-best-ever/

Before Super Bowl LI, plausible arguments could be made for and against the proposition that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback in NFL history. After Sunday night’s game for the ages in Houston, the debate has entered Jerry Rice territory.

For years, there’s been no question that Jerry Rice was the greatest receiver in NFL history. Now, there’s no question as to who the greatest quarterback is and was.

You can try to make an argument against it, out of bias or resentment or jealousy or whatever. You can try, but you’ll fail. With five Super Bowl championships, two other Super Bowl appearances, four Super Bowl MVP trophies, and a run of sustained excellence that has carried him from 199th pick in the 2000 draft to the top of the NFL mountain, Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.

The next question is whether Brady will be regarded as the greatest player at any position, supplanting Rice for that unofficial title. That hinges in large part on whether Brady retires with any, many, or all of the all-time passing records, and whether he continues to play at a high level beyond the age of 40.

At the MVP press conference, Brady said that at age 25 his arm always hurt and that, at 39, it never does. As long as the arm can complement the mind, he’ll be able to keep going.

Yes, Father Time is undefeated. But Brady appears to be ready to give him a fight like he’s never before seen. If anyone doubts his abilities in that regard, they should talk to the Falcons.

Charles Haley is the greatest defensive player of all time: 5 rings.

 

[outside shooter]

Charles Haley is the greatest defensive player of all time: 5 rings.

Jimmy Garapollo has tied both Peyton & Eli Manning with 2 rings, also doubling Steve Young.

Moron.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Jimmy Garapollo has tied both Peyton & Eli Manning with 2 rings, also doubling Steve Young.

Moron.

Steve Young has 3 rings: counting to 3 can be a difficult task.

I have seen Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, and Dan Marino in their prime. From a sheer talent perspective, Tom Brady isn't in their stratosphere. I don't even know if he is better than Steve Young or Eli Manning. It is a system, which benefits Brady. How would Brady do if he were on the Dolphins like Marino?

 

[outside shooter]

The word talent is misapplied, as if it only applied to track accomplishments.

Intelligence is a talent. So are
Work ethic
Determination
Focus
Drive
And a dozen other things you might blow off as intangibles.

Those are talents that Brady has overy all others. He didn't drink alcohol or eat sugar today. He is TRAINING.

 

[edubs1212]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAH

Brady is a system QB is now the excuse of why he isn't the best of all time????? What else can the guy do to prove you wrong. Just tell him.....because he will do it.

This is why this conversation and why Shooter and I have to defend. What else does this guy need to do to prove to you he is the GOAT? Does he have to throw for 600 yards in a Superbowl? Does he have to play with only 1 WR?

When he won when he was younger it wasn't him it was the defense.
When he wins when he is older throwing 60+ times it is because the system.
When he loses in the Superbowl to the Giants...its Brady's fault. When he wins...it is a system.

WHAT ELSE CAN THE GUY DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[crimsonlaw]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAH

Brady is a system QB is now the excuse of why he isn't the best of all time????? What else can the guy do to prove you wrong. Just tell him.....because he will do it.

This is why this conversation and why Shooter and I have to defend. What else does this guy need to do to prove to you he is the GOAT? Does he have to throw for 600 yards in a Superbowl? Does he have to play with only 1 WR?

When he won when he was younger it wasn't him it was the defense.
When he wins when he is older throwing 60+ times it is because the system.
When he loses in the Superbowl to the Giants...its Brady's fault. When he wins...it is a system.

WHAT ELSE CAN THE GUY DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He could go play QB for the Bears.

 

[burnthemallralphie]

You clowns give way too much credit to Brady, but not enough to Belicheat. I am fairly certain that Belicheat could win multiple super bowls with any number of QBs, because he is the greatest coach ever. That's your hero and GOAT.

You guys just want to suck Brady off.

 

[outside shooter]

For 10 years we heard Coltish fools say that "Brady can't really win a super bowl if he had to. He just drives for a FG and has his kicker win it for him"

The twisted Coltish logic is that somehow in a tie game there must be more testosterone-driven satisfaction from scoring a touchdown as opposed to simply winning the game. Then there's also the false narrative that Venatieri somehow won three of them with his heroics. Hey, I'm glad for his legit heroics vs. the Rams (even better earlier in the playoffs vs. the Raiders) . I'm glad that, after he shanked a FG into the line vs. Carolina in the SB, getting it blocked, then after he flat-out missed another one in the same game, he then recovered to make the game-winner. I'll take one-for-three and a win! I'm glad that (contrary to myth) he didn't need to make a game-winner vs. the Eagles. He indeed kicked a late FG, but to put the Patriots up 10 points. The Eagles famously took their own sweet McNabb-puking time scoring a late TD vs. a prevent zone. The only late game drama was the Patriots recovering an onsides kick. It was the least stressful of 7 Patriots Super Bowls in the 2000s.

So let's go to SB 49. The Seahawks were the top-rated D since the 2000 Ravens, they were up 10 points, with 9 minutes to go in the game. What we saw was a then-unprecedented comeback. A QB on fire. 13 for 15 in the 4th Q. Richard Sherman cried.

Let's go to SB 51. No, a FG is not needed to win the damn game. What is needed? 4 touchdowns, two 2-point conversions, and a FG. Delivered.

Those Coltish fools now need to eat crow. They were wrong. That's all.

 

[edubs1212]

Here we go again. Another excuse. Can you tell me how Belicheck was responsible for what Brady did the other night? It seemed to me that the coach was getting out coached all the way in the 1st half.

You are making stuff and guessing once again. Does not seem like Belicheck had success with Vinny Testerverde who was a very good NFL QB. Doesn't seem like he had success with Drew Bledsoe who was a Number 1 pick and a Super Bowl QB.

The data suggests it is the other way around, Brady is responsible for Bill's success.

I will ask again.....what else does Brady have to do??? Just tell him...he will do it.

 

[crimsonlaw]

Here we go again. Another excuse. Can you tell me how Belicheck was responsible for what Brady did the other night? It seemed to me that the coach was getting out coached all the way in the 1st half.

You are making stuff and guessing once again. Does not seem like Belicheck had success with Vinny Testerverde who was a very good NFL QB. Doesn't seem like he had success with Drew Bledsoe who was a Number 1 pick and a Super Bowl QB.

The data suggests it is the other way around, Brady is responsible for Bill's success.

I will ask again.....what else does Brady have to do??? Just tell him...he will do it.

Go play QB for the Bears.

If you take Brady away from the Pats and insert any one of say 10 QBs or remove Belichick and insert any other coach, which would hurt the Pats more?

In all seriousness, I've always thought that if Saban wanted to prove he is the best out there and ever, then he should try coaching the Hoosiers.

 

[Ohio Guy]

Go play QB for the Bears.

If you take Brady away from the Pats and insert any one of say 10 QBs or remove Belichick and insert any other coach, which would hurt the Pats more?

In all seriousness, I've always thought that if Saban wanted to prove he is the best out there and ever, then he should try coaching the Hoosiers.

I've had a similar hypothetical conversation re: Saban and the Hoosiers. My thinking is that Saban would absolutely have similar success at Indiana - if IU shelled out the money for Saban, all his top-notch assistants and facilities.

If you could make IU's athletic department spend the money they'd need to spend in that scenario, IU would be a national title contender in around 3 years.