Some realignment smoke

[mushroomgod_1]

Rick Neuheisal said yesterday concerning BT expansion " I hear it from my sources that its all but a done deal with respect to Washington and Oregon, potentially Stanford, Cal...".

Regarding Stanford & California, I think the BT would be wise to proceed cautiously. Obvious advantages are two highest rated schools academically in D1 sports, San Francisco/N. California market, and Stanford having a top 2 overall ranked athletic dept.. However, there are a lot more people in S. California than N. California, Cal's football has been mediocre, and neither schools brings anything to the basketball schedule.

Probably more importantly, will Stanford and Cal do what it will take in the future to be competitive in football? Right now Stanford does not give 5 year athletic scholarships or accept football transfers. I don't think Stanford can sustain the level of success they've had in football the past 15 years or so with these policies. (they already seem to be falling off). Will they dirty themselves to remain competitive? I know ND doesn't either, but ND is ND and Stanford is Stanford in relative football terms.

The BT would be smart to hold off on Stanford & Cal until they have an answer.

Not sure whether Cal accepts transfers and gives 5 year scholarships.

UCLA and USC are highly rated academically....not as high as Stanford/Cal, but they are all in with regard to transfers.

 

[TMFT]

I can see Stanford & Cal coming if for no other reason than to be able to create easier geographic pods. In fact, I can see them bringing in two more than that.

The 4 CA schools + 1 other PAC school
Neb., Iowa, Minny, Wiscy, Illini
IU, PU, MSU, PSU, NW
Rutgers, MD, OSU, UM + 1 from the eastern half of the country

Schedule is the 4 in your divsion + 1 from each other division. Final week of regular season matches up 1 v 1, 2 v 2, etc. in divisions. The 1s are a defacto bracket to play for the conference championship the following week.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Rick Neuheisal said yesterday concerning BT expansion " I hear it from my sources that its all but a done deal with respect to Washington and Oregon, potentially Stanford, Cal...".

Regarding Stanford & California, I think the BT would be wise to proceed cautiously. Obvious advantages are two highest rated schools academically in D1 sports, San Francisco/N. California market, and Stanford having a top 2 overall ranked athletic dept.. However, there are a lot more people in S. California than N. California, Cal's football has been mediocre, and neither schools brings anything to the basketball schedule.

Probably more importantly, will Stanford and Cal do what it will take in the future to be competitive in football? Right now Stanford does not give 5 year athletic scholarships or accept football transfers. I don't think Stanford can sustain the level of success they've had in football the past 15 years or so with these policies. (they already seem to be falling off). Will they dirty themselves to remain competitive? I know ND doesn't either, but ND is ND and Stanford is Stanford in relative football terms.

The BT would be smart to hold off on Stanford & Cal until they have an answer.

Not sure whether Cal accepts transfers and gives 5 year scholarships.

UCLA and USC are highly rated academically....not as high as Stanford/Cal, but they are all in with regard to transfers.

So.......as soon as I write this K Warren comes out and says about expansion "It doesn't mean expansion is not a priority, but it no longer has the immediacy it did during the summer".

I think what's going on is that the BT is investigating the possibility of having a "4th window" on Saturday nights (ie..Noon; 3:30; 7:00, and 10:00 ESTs) with that window being primarily serviced by Amazon or Apple streaming. If they can get enough $ from that they'll add Washington, Oregon and/or Stanford & Cal at reduced payouts originally, as they did with Maryland, RU, and Nebraska (USC & UCLA are coming in at 100%).

You can argue about whether it makes sense to add USC & UCLA at all, but once you do that it seems inevitable that at least two other west coast schools would be added....otherwise, USC & UCLA are on an island..........

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I can see Stanford & Cal coming if for no other reason than to be able to create easier geographic pods. In fact, I can see them bringing in two more than that.

The 4 CA schools + 1 other PAC school
Neb., Iowa, Minny, Wiscy, Illini
IU, PU, MSU, PSU, NW
Rutgers, MD, OSU, UM + 1 from the eastern half of the country

Schedule is the 4 in your divsion + 1 from each other division. Final week of regular season matches up 1 v 1, 2 v 2, etc. in divisions. The 1s are a defacto bracket to play for the conference championship the following week.

I'm concerned that a Stanford that doesn't give 5 year scholarships or accept transfers, and being out of its element geographically, will turn into Northwestern in football (with no Fitz to keep it out of the cellar).

I don't know of an eastern school right now that would fit, other than those in the ACC tied up in a GORs until 2036, or ND. If they go to 20 within the next couple of years they probably add Stanford, Cal, Washington & Stanford. Adding Washington OR Oregon doesn't make much sense given that they are natural rivals and both good football draws.

BUT, if you add all 4 schools you've added the potential of more California politics (see the UCLA response). Lord knows what could come of that. Also, you've added a natural 6 team power block for future voting situations.

It feels like they've got themselves in a bit of a box. They looked at USC and UCLA and they thought "We have to respond to TX & OK to the SEC", and USC/UCLA was the only legit response. BUT, USC/UCLA all alone doesn't make sense in the long run, and every other possibility has drawbacks, financially and otherwise.

 

[Crayfish57]

At some point why are we even having conferences? I guess its all about TV money but in football and you can't even play half the teams it gets so big. I have to ask and not to be too political but with the other sports as well in our new green world seems like an awful lot of miles on planes. Are they going to schedule multiple events if UCLA is flying to OSU so either basketball of football the volleyball and swim team can fly along? Seems ridiculous to me

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Does no one see the irony in IU fans questioning if Stanford is good enough in football to join the conference? Come again?

Stanford would be a top 6 program in the Big Ten. They have a tremendous brand. From an overall school perspective a much better brand nationally than ND. But we as IU fans are wondering if they’re worthy?? Stop it.

 

[TMFT]

At some point why are we even having conferences? I guess its all about TV money but in football and you can't even play half the teams it gets so big. I have to ask and not to be too political but with the other sports as well in our new green world seems like an awful lot of miles on planes. Are they going to schedule multiple events if UCLA is flying to OSU so either basketball of football the volleyball and swim team can fly along? Seems ridiculous to me

At some point the expansion will be such that there are two like 32 team super-duper conferences that break away from the NCAA entirely and do their own thing with their own playoff.

So it'll be the B1G vs SEC until they eventually merge and create a Jr. NFL in earnest.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Does no one see the irony in IU fans questioning if Stanford is good enough in football to join the conference? Come again?

Stanford would be a top 6 program in the Big Ten. They have a tremendous brand. From an overall school perspective a much better brand nationally than ND. But we as IU fans are wondering if they’re worthy?? Stop it.

Indiana's football history is not relevant to the discussion. Indiana's not being looked at as a potential newcomer to the BT. But troll away.

As far as Stanford goes, I believe their refusal to have 5th year students on 'ship and accept transfers will have negative consequences going forward. How could it not? As bad as IU is this year, how would we be doing without our QB, our two top TBs, Matthews, Coby, Simmons, Hanna, Tevis, Lucas, Cox, Jackson, Jennings and Casey? How would MSU have done last year with Walker? How many more games would Iowa have won this year had they gotten a decent transfer QB?

Stanford 2019-2022: 12-23 overall; 9-18 PAC
Stanford attendance: 2019: avg. 36732; 2021: avg 35684; 2022 to date: 34374

 

[Radio Zero]

It’s a matter of branding, honestly.

SEC: It Just Means More
Big Ten: There’s A Good Chance Half Our Student-Athletes Are Literate

Seriously.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

At some point the expansion will be such that there are two like 32 team super-duper conferences that break away from the NCAA entirely and do their own thing with their own playoff.

So it'll be the B1G vs SEC until they eventually merge and create a Jr. NFL in earnest.

I don't know.....a lot of people think the BT and SEC will each end up with 24.....

The BT's at 16 now. If they added Washington, Oregon, Stanford & Cal (right now it's not clear the last 2 will be added), they'd still look at ND, UNC, VA, maybe FSU, maybe Miami, maybe GT, maybe Clemson, maybe Kansas, maybe Duke.....thing is, SEC would also look at those schools, plus possibly NC State, UL and VT, minus possibly Duke & GT. So that's a total of 12 schools that the BT and SEC might split up. Out of 12 spots that might be available (If BT adds the PAC 4).

Now, admittedly, that leaves a lot of schools with pretty good academics. sports history and/or potential which, for one reason or another really aren't being looked at by the BT/SEC---Colorado, Arizona, ASU, Utah, Pitt, Syracuse, UCF, KSU, BYU, TT, TCU, SMU, Houston, WVU, Boston College, Cincy, Memphis, OK State, Baylor, Iowa St....that's 20....add about 12 more and that gives you 2 2nd tier conferences of 16 apiece....the new Big 12 and the new ACC. That would total 80 schools playing at the highest level.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

It’s a matter of branding, honestly.

SEC: It Just Means More
Big Ten: There’s A Good Chance Half Our Student-Athletes Are Literate

Seriously.

Yes....that's why I think the BT will have a hard time passing on Cal & Stanford. That's every BT president's wet dream. But the BT would probably be a better league adding 2/3 of Arizona, ASU, and Colorado.

Thinking more about this....AZ and ASU would be much better travel partners, but AZ/ASU and Colorado together would have about 13 M people, nearly as many as are in N. California.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Indiana's football history is not relevant to the discussion. Indiana's not being looked at as a potential newcomer to the BT. But troll away.

As far as Stanford goes, I believe their refusal to have 5th year students on 'ship and accept transfers will have negative consequences going forward. How could it not? As bad as IU is this year, how would we be doing without our QB, our two top TBs, Matthews, Coby, Simmons, Hanna, Tevis, Lucas, Cox, Jackson, Jennings and Casey? How would MSU have done last year with Walker? How many more games would Iowa have won this year had they gotten a decent transfer QB?

Stanford 2019-2022: 12-23 overall; 9-18 PAC
Stanford attendance: 2019: avg. 36732; 2021: avg 35684; 2022 to date: 34374

Stanford is iconic. They have a brand that can’t be beaten. I know they’re down right now but they will be back. I’d kick half the conference out to have them.

 

[Army88]

Somebody help me out. Isn’t it about number of TV VIEWERS?
NYC 20M, LA 17M, Chicago 9M. Covered. (Everyone can argue about NYC, but Rutgers may be best college fb near NYC).
dallas/fw 8M, Philly. 7.8 M, Houston 7M, ATL 6.9 M, San Fran 6.9 M
Seems to me BT should look at Texas Before San Francisco.
And the way Florida is growing, what about FSU and Miami?

 

[IUNY]

I can see Stanford & Cal coming if for no other reason than to be able to create easier geographic pods. In fact, I can see them bringing in two more than that.

The 4 CA schools + 1 other PAC school
Neb., Iowa, Minny, Wiscy, Illini
IU, PU, MSU, PSU, NW
Rutgers, MD, OSU, UM + 1 from the eastern half of the country

Schedule is the 4 in your divsion + 1 from each other division. Final week of regular season matches up 1 v 1, 2 v 2, etc. in divisions. The 1s are a defacto bracket to play for the conference championship the following week.

If the Big Ten took half the Pac-12, then the conference is almost as much a West Coast one as it is primarily a Midwest one.

 

[TMFT]

If the Big Ten took half the Pac-12, then the conference is almost as much a West Coast one as it is primarily a Midwest one.

PSU, Maryland, & Rutgers are already primarily east coasters. So we’re already 3/14. Non-Midwest.

we’ve lost that identity. Gotta keep up with the Joneses.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

Stanford is iconic. They have a brand that can’t be beaten. I know they’re down right now but they will be back. I’d kick half the conference out to have them.

Sounds like you’d kick us out

 

[jsenleo]

Somebody help me out. Isn’t bout number of TV VIEWERS?
NYC 20M, LA 17M, Chicago 9M. Covered. (Everyone can argue about NYC, but Rutgers may be best college fb near NYC).
dallas/fw 8M, Philly. 7.8 M, Houston 7M, ATL 6.9 M, San Fran 6.9 M
Seems to me BT should look at Texas Before San Francisco.
And the way Florida is growing, what about FSU and Miami?

Yep, TV HH's are the primary key... however, the B1G Presidents consider academic qualities almost, if not just as, important.... So, if a school is not an AAU member its likelyhood of being invited to join is basically nil.... but, that could change.

Sorry, but Texas would never give up being the big fish in the pond.

BTW #1 .... please let me know where you came up with these market DMA TV HH"s #s.... they are WAY off!.... .... According to Nielson in 2021 in the NY metro there were 7.5 million TV HH's and LA has 5.7 million TV HH's.... TV HH"s and metro population size are two totally different things.

BTW #2 .... a couple of months ago this was covered ad nauseam on this site.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Sounds like you’d kick us out

We’d unfortunately be one of the targets if it ever came to that.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Does no one see the irony in IU fans questioning if Stanford is good enough in football to join the conference? Come again?

Stanford would be a top 6 program in the Big Ten. They have a tremendous brand. From an overall school perspective a much better brand nationally than ND. But we as IU fans are wondering if they’re worthy?? Stop it.

I’m not sure you’re intelligent enough for this conversation

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Sounds like you’d kick us out

If I were objective and had to choose either IU or Stanford for the conference, yes I would choose Stanford. I don’t know how any objective person could choose IU in that scenario. Or half of the Big Ten schools for that matter.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Stanford would be a top 6 program in the Big Ten. They have a tremendous brand. From an overall school perspective a much better brand nationally than ND. But we as IU fans are wondering if they’re worthy?? Stop it.

lol

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Somebody help me out. Isn’t it about number of TV VIEWERS?
NYC 20M, LA 17M, Chicago 9M. Covered. (Everyone can argue about NYC, but Rutgers may be best college fb near NYC).
dallas/fw 8M, Philly. 7.8 M, Houston 7M, ATL 6.9 M, San Fran 6.9 M
Seems to me BT should look at Texas Before San Francisco.
And the way Florida is growing, what about FSU and Miami?

Except those schools don’t slot in those other time slots available. The B1G already has plenty of early eastern/central time zone teams.

 

[Army88]

Except those schools don’t slot in those other time slots available. The B1G already has plenty of early eastern/central time zone teams.

Very good point!
And by adding Washington, Stanford and Oregon, you have blocked the other (sec) conference from the top western schools. That would make a 5 team West division, which results in 4 game round robin. U Cal might satisfy the presidents academically, but I have no problem leaving Cal off the list.
I just feel that Florida and Texas markets have value.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Very good point!
And by adding Washington, Stanford and Oregon, you have blocked the other (sec) conference from the top western schools. That would make a 5 team West division, which results in 4 game round robin. U Cal might satisfy the presidents academically, but I have no problem leaving Cal off the list.
I just feel that Florida and Texas markets have value.

That’s one thing that will make the B1G off the charts wealthy. The SEC may have brands but what other people will they reach? They have peaked in viewership and adding schools near their other brands won’t bring more in. The B1G will be financially sound for decades because of real consortium and alignment in every area. Including academia and even Olympic sports. What a diverse bunch.

 

[Radio Zero]

That’s one thing that will make the B1G off the charts wealthy. The SEC may have brands but what other people will they reach? They have peaked in viewership and adding schools near their other brands won’t bring more in. The B1G will be financially sound for decades because of real consortium and alignment in every area. Including academia and even Olympic sports. What a diverse bunch.

Exactly.

The purpose of war is to be better positioned to wage further wars, as Emmanuel Goldstein wrote. Once the Big Ten has secured the American West Coast, it can turn its eyes to the really big game: the annexation of British Columbia, Alberta, and the Yukon. The establishing of a land corridor to Alaska will make the conference unassailable.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Exactly.

The purpose of war is to be better positioned to wage further wars, as Emmanuel Goldstein wrote. Once the Big Ten has secured the American West Coast, it can turn its eyes to the really big game: the annexation of British Columbia, Alberta, and the Yukon. The establishing of a land corridor to Alaska will make the conference unassailable.

Then they can have a grizzly adams trophy.

 

[jsenleo]

Exactly.

The purpose of war is to be better positioned to wage further wars, as Emmanuel Goldstein wrote. Once the Big Ten has secured the American West Coast, it can turn its eyes to the really big game: the annexation of British Columbia, Alberta, and the Yukon. The establishing of a land corridor to Alaska will make the conference unassailable.

To go along with the Canadian take over.... I think the B1G should acquire the mineral rights under all of the states with SEC schools.... put em at our mercy!

What a better way to tell the SEC to go ..... "frack"..... itself.

 

[DCDAVID]

USC and UCLA need teams in the same time zone to play with (especially in non-revenue sports) and the BT wants to tie up the entire West Coast tv market. If it adds up financially the BT will proceed. Simple as that, especially since all those schools happen to be strong academically.

In regards to expanding to Texas. Do any schools in Texas make sense aside from Texas and Texas AM? I don’t think so and neither of them are likely to move the the BT. At this point I think there is zero chance the BT would go after Houston, Baylor or TT.

 

[DCDAVID]

Exactly.

The purpose of war is to be better positioned to wage further wars, as Emmanuel Goldstein wrote. Once the Big Ten has secured the American West Coast, it can turn its eyes to the really big game: the annexation of British Columbia, Alberta, and the Yukon. The establishing of a land corridor to Alaska will make the conference unassailable.

Conference alignment is starting to remind me of the game of Risk. I think we need to take over Siam and work north from there.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

Once we’ve conquered the world and there are no other worlds to conquer do we end like Alexander the Great??