So I just got a bill...

[1987Grad]

Mr. Incredible, I mean Bob, agrees with you.

LOL. Love that movie.

 

[El Drado]

The whole thing is a money grab, it is capitalism gone rogue. We would all be so lucky if just dr's and insurance co.s were raking it in.
Literally everything that goes into everything that is touched by someone is marked up way more than an average mfg good....b/c they can.

• buy a lightbulb from Batteries/Bulbs and tell them it is for the healthcare industry...your price is doubled right before your eyes.
• the same powder coat or anodizing that is used for other regular goods is at least triple for healthcare goods.
• i was asked to make a product that heated tools b/c the patent was expiring...the product cost the mfg $2K to make and they sold it for $60K
• i could go on and on...but this ain't Obama's fault.

 

[Zizkov]

Have you seen the hospitals in this country? Pretty sure one of the top 10 most expensive construction projects east of the Mississippi just took place a few years ago in Ft. Wayne and it was a hospital not an insurance office. With ACA the regulations are extremely stringent on what they have to pay our vs what they can put away as profit. The companies know this and that is part of the reason we are seeing a lot of acquisitions in the last year. We will basically be a 2 company health insurance industry for anyone who wants to go fully funded (Anthem or UHC). That is why we are so focused on self insuring actually takes the companies out of the mix and allows them to help drive the cost down.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing. The education, medical and insurance industries (I'm talking more about the huge insurance firms and not the local office) are getting worse and worse at their jobs and making more money then ever.

 

[rickyIU]

Have you seen the hospitals in this country? Pretty sure one of the top 10 most expensive construction projects east of the Mississippi just took place a few years ago in Ft. Wayne and it was a hospital not an insurance office. With ACA the regulations are extremely stringent on what they have to pay our vs what they can put away as profit. The companies know this and that is part of the reason we are seeing a lot of acquisitions in the last year. We will basically be a 2 company health insurance industry for anyone who wants to go fully funded (Anthem or UHC). That is why we are so focused on self insuring actually takes the companies out of the mix and allows them to help drive the cost down.

Half of the money for that Fort Wayne project went into their cafeteria and the robots they have that roam the hallways.

 

[T.M.P.]

Half of the money for that Fort Wayne project went into their cafeteria and the robots they have that roam the hallways.

and the landscaping, and the paintings in the hallways....

 

[IUecho87]

Americans have a habit of demanding the very 'best' (meaning newest and most expensive) in their health care, even when there is no proof that there is any benefit.

It's a complicated issue, but the biggest outlier I've seen anywhere is the vast difference in doctor pay in the US vs other developed countries. It's not uncommon to see doctors salaries at 2x to 3x the amount of their counterparts in Europe.

Somewhere along the line becoming a doctor, particularly a specialist, became a ticket to a very wealthy life. Part of that may be justified by the rigorous demands and exorbitant cost of the schooling. Who knows

I work in the field with many providers, and most of them, not all, are motivated by exactly that....wealth. They could give two chits about doing what is best for the patient....they don't care....they focus on doing the absolute minimum they have to do in order to satisfy their contracted duty with the hospital and then leave.

And all of the thousands of med schools.... they are like on-line 2 year degree schools with their watered down cirriculums, just pumping out as many incompetant SOB's as they can And why should they give a damn.....more students mean more money. So there's alot....and I mean alot, of chitty doctors out there....most of them younger aged, who have recently gone through the mill.

 

[T.M.P.]

I work in the field with many providers, and most of them, not all, are motivated by exactly that....wealth. They could give two chits about doing what is best for the patient....they don't care....they focus on doing the absolute minimum they have to do in order to satisfy their contracted duty with the hospital and then leave.

And all of the thousands of med schools.... they are like on-line 2 year degree schools with their watered down cirriculums, just pumping out as many incompetant SOB's as they can And why should they give a damn.....more students mean more money. So there's alot....and I mean alot, of chitty doctors out there....most of them younger aged, who have recently gone through the mill.

That's every industry. The scary thing is that "every" industry = food, health, prisons, police. They've all been monetized for the highest profit margin.

 

[Moops]

Half of the money for that Fort Wayne project went into their cafeteria and the robots they have that roam the hallways...

and the landscaping, and the paintings in the hallways....

... And the other half to the CEOs bonuses and golden parachute.

 

[largemouth]

there are some insurance and medical folks on here. This, in my opinion is why our healthcare costs are out of hand. To me a basic policy should cover or help with preventative stuff like Dr's visits, weight loss, smoking cessation,etc...; emergency coverage for things like a broken bone or accident; and catastrophic coverage above deductible for things like heart attack and cancer. But all this, what I would call "quality of life stuff" like sleep studies, CPAPs, sinus/allergy, stomach issues, ED, etc.. for the basic policy, if covered should have a decent amount covered by the patient so they have skin in the game. Patrick didn't give a flip because he thought it was covered, but if he'd had to cover a third of it, he'd have to think twice if it was really necessary, and been more involved in selection and price. If you still want a more rich coverage policy, then you're premiums would jump accordingly.

Curious as to what industry pro's think, but I think that would make meaningful cuts in insurance costs. I actually think the ACA was the right idea, but it was implemented so poorly we lost the opportunity to actually achieve "affordable care" for the masses.

I agree with your post to an extent, but sleep apnea is a serious condition that can lead to heart attack, stroke and death. It's not a quality of life thing. It's a lot more than getting a good night's sleep. My apnea led to heart arrhythmia (afib) that required a catheter ablation (cardioversion) on two occasions before a "normal" heart rhythm was restored. A holter monitor showed that my heart was skipping beats, not beating for two seconds or longer multiple times, and my heart rate dipped into the thirties at times. Always during the night and caused by sleep apnea. I had two sleep studies during this period to diagnose the issue.

 

[McHoop]

On a much smaller scale, I had something similar come up recently. Mrs McHoop had her annual gynecological exam. As everyone knows, this preventative stuff is generally paid at 100%. We later received our EOB that indicated a small portion was owed by us. A call to the insurer revealed it was due to the treating physician coding a portion of the visit as "office visit."

I called the physicians office and they advised the doctor felt she had a conversation about matters beyond the gynecological exam. In questioning my wife, she advised that the doctor asked her a few questions about a medical condition she currently has present and her responses were pretty much "yes" and/or "no." Hence, the doctor felt she was entitled to an additional office visit charge.

McHoop

 

[booyah31183]

On a much smaller scale, I had something similar come up recently. Mrs McHoop had her annual gynecological exam. As everyone knows, this preventative stuff is generally paid at 100%. We later received our EOB that indicated a small portion was owed by us. A call to the insurer revealed it was due to the treating physician coding a portion of the visit as "office visit."

I called the physicians office and they advised the doctor felt she had a conversation about matters beyond the gynecological exam. In questioning my wife, she advised that the doctor asked her a few questions about a medical condition she currently has present and her responses were pretty much "yes" and/or "no." Hence, the doctor felt she was entitled to an additional office visit charge.

McHoop

Same thing happened to me when I took my kid in for a free flu shot last year. The doctor tacked on a visit charge because she checked my son's breathing for any pre-existing cold/flu or something. I'm taking them to CVS for that from now on.

 

[twenty02]

Same thing happened to me when I took my kid in for a free flu shot last year. The doctor tacked on a visit charge because she checked my son's breathing for any pre-existing cold/flu or something. I'm taking them to CVS for that from now on.

Ha...it's not just humans either....I took my dog to the vet, a new vet for us, that offered a ' free' first visit. I walked out paying $300.

 

[patrick593]

Americans have a habit of demanding the very 'best' (meaning newest and most expensive) in their health care, even when there is no proof that there is any benefit.

So for my health I'm not supposed to want the best treatment?
Sure I'll take that chitty treatment instead!!!
Stupid

 

[twenty02]

So for my health I'm not supposed to want the best treatment?
Sure I'll take that chitty treatment instead!!!
Stupid

You've already proven that you are part of the problem, being totally ignorant of costs, to the point of not even asking about it. There is no need to continue doing so.

I wasn't even talking about your specific situation. But you continue to hammer home your stupidity....I put 'best' in quotes because newer is very often not proven any better in medicine. Just more expensive.

 

[kkott]

I agree with your post to an extent, but sleep apnea is a serious condition that can lead to heart attack, stroke and death. It's not a quality of life thing. It's a lot more than getting a good night's sleep. My apnea led to heart arrhythmia (afib) that required a catheter ablation (cardioversion) on two occasions before a "normal" heart rhythm was restored. A holter monitor showed that my heart was skipping beats, not beating for two seconds or longer multiple times, and my heart rate dipped into the thirties at times. Always during the night and caused by sleep apnea. I had two sleep studies during this period to diagnose the issue.

Like I said, you can choose to have a plan that is more comprehensive, and pay for it, but at least give us as consumers the option. I don't doubt what you said, and I hope you don't take offense, but I do believe there is a correlation of sleep apnea and obesity also, correct? A lot of folks I believe could correct their sleep problems with diet and exercise. I bought a $40 ZQuiet mouthpiece that helps me sleep better, and that's a fraction of what a sleep study costs. There are options, but at this point I'd imagine a sleep study is more common than folks who donate blood. It's a huge money maker, and one that a lot of people could avoid altogether, imho. I also said it will just make you a better consumer, not that you shouldn't have it done. If I'm having life threatening issues, I'm damn well getting it done and in most people's case if they were on the type of plan I'm talking about, they could use the thousands they'd saved in insurance premiums to pay for their percentage of those procedures they determine are necessary.

 

[UTFO]

Sure. But if you want to distort any market, have a government pump in 10's or 100's of billions of dollars along with changing the rules of play. Medical industry and college education are two good current examples. Neither private enterprise or socialism, but some odd mix in-between with a perverse set of incentives create poor outcomes. .

Yeah but you can't have unbridled capitalism or pure socialism either - they don't work.

I'm afraid the weird mix reflects our species focked-up-ness.

 

[patrick593]

You've already proven that you are part of the problem, being totally ignorant of costs, to the point of not even asking about it. There is no need to continue doing so.

I wasn't even talking about your specific situation. But you continue to hammer home your stupidity....I put 'best' in quotes because newer is very often not proven any better in medicine. Just more expensive.

Part of the problem? I don't do this stuff every day. When I ask a doctor "is this going to be covered" and he replies with "we wouldn't send you to anything if you weren't" I take him at his word. Excuse the flying F out of me for not knowing the ins and outs of the medical/insurance professions. You want to start talking about electrical codes? I can... if you hire me to do some electrical work at your house are you going to assume that I'm doing it within code or are you going to sit down and review the NECA to make sure all my work is in line. If not you could void some types of insurance for not having your house in code if there was a fire.
Boy sure sucks to be you then.

The problem is we have a medical industry that is more worried about sending you to the doctor or practice where they went to med school with the buddy, or has a big titty rep, or who he goes out to dinner 3 nights a week to Ocean Prime with than checking to see what is covered. The prices are so over inflated for procedures and visits because most are covered by insurance and it doesn't generally hurt the day to day person. Like my cousin's $20,000 per shot chemo treatment. They can charge that much because you need it, and because its probably covered anyways.
Its much easier for a doctor, who is the professional here, check or have someone check if someone is covered to Doctor X before sending them there. If they aren't they can examine who IS covered and send them to a recommend doctor.
Don't try and feed me that they can't, because they can, I have enough friends and family in the medical profession to know better. Its being lazy or in some cases unethical.

 

[kkott]

Part of the problem? I don't do this stuff every day. When I ask a doctor "is this going to be covered" and he replies with "we wouldn't send you to anything if you weren't" I take him at his word. Excuse the flying F out of me for not knowing the ins and outs of the medical/insurance professions. You want to start talking about electrical codes? I can... if you hire me to do some electrical work at your house are you going to assume that I'm doing it within code or are you going to sit down and review the NECA to make sure all my work is in line. If not you could void some types of insurance for not having your house in code if there was a fire.
Boy sure sucks to be you then.

The problem is we have a medical industry that is more worried about sending you to the doctor or practice where they went to med school with the buddy, or has a big titty rep, or who he goes out to dinner 3 nights a week to Ocean Prime with than checking to see what is covered. The prices are so over inflated for procedures and visits because most are covered by insurance and it doesn't generally hurt the day to day person. Like my cousin's $20,000 per shot chemo treatment. They can charge that much because you need it, and because its probably covered anyways.
Its much easier for a doctor, who is the professional here, check or have someone check if someone is covered to Doctor X before sending them there. If they aren't they can examine who IS covered and send them to a recommend doctor.
Don't try and feed me that they can't, because they can, I have enough friends and family in the medical profession to know better. Its being lazy or in some cases unethical.

No one's saying you should have learned the medical profession, but knowing a little more about what's covered, what the costs are, and is it something you need or are there alternatives would help. You're in good company, but when your biggest concern about medical procedures recommended is "is it covered?". That is a part of the problem.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Absolutely, doctors here make good money, but they aren't rich by any means. The other big difference is the hospitals. They have every piece of modern equipment, but they keep everything else quit simple.

I much prefer the system here in every way. I get immediate, professional care and a very affordable cost. For those that want care above and beyond, they are easily able to purchase it. For the population as a whole, they get great care, with no hidden costs.

I've noticed that overseas too. It drives me crazy when I see hospitals that have spent millions of dollars on frivolous decorations. A hospital needs to be comfortable and clean. It doesn't need to compete with a first class hotel, like many US ones appear to be doing.

 

[patrick593]

No one's saying you should have learned the medical profession, but knowing a little more about what's covered, what the costs are, and is it something you need or are there alternatives would help. You're in good company, but when your biggest concern about medical procedures recommended is "is it covered?". That is a part of the problem.

That's silly... they're making the appointment and referral for you. Should be something that is checked automatically. Sure moving forward I'll request that nothing be scheduled until I check but 95% of the population isn't doing that. You trust those who are experts in area's you are not.

 

[kkott]

That's silly... they're making the appointment and referral for you. Should be something that is checked automatically. Sure moving forward I'll request that nothing be scheduled until I check but 95% of the population isn't doing that. You trust those who are experts in area's you are not.

You're probably right. Expecting people to become active participants in their healthcare and lifestyle choices is probably asking too much. Take care of me Obamer!

 

[twenty02]

That's silly... they're making the appointment and referral for you. Should be something that is checked automatically. Sure moving forward I'll request that nothing be scheduled until I check but 95% of the population isn't doing that. You trust those who are experts in area's you are not.

What you think is silly or not is irrelevant.