Russia-Ukraine war has begun

[toastedbread]

Much of that was the Azov brigade which was destroyed in Mariupol.

We need a deal on Ukraine, but the Ukrainian people get to choose their government.

We know Stalin committed genocide against Ukraine, I get why they do not want to be part of Russia. That action resulted in a lot of Ukrainian siding with Germany, so we see the roots of your point. I don't condone Nazis, but Stalin wasn't materially better for many and probably worse for Ukraine.

How Joseph Stalin Starved Millions in the Ukrainian Famine | HISTORY

Cruel efforts under Stalin to impose collectivism and tamp down Ukrainian nationalism left an estimated 3.9 million dead.

www.history.com

I haven't seen anyone dispute that they get to choose their own government, but my little reading suggests the Ukranian public is not too happy with Mr. Zelensky right now who is an autocrat preventing democratic elections.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I haven't seen anyone dispute that they get to choose their own government, but my little reading suggests the Ukranian public is not too happy with Mr. Zelensky right now who is an autocrat preventing democratic elections.

Look at the article below, bolding mine:

In terms of territorial concessions, Ukraine was expected to cede Crimea and the Donbas region outright, while also accepting the ongoing occupation of areas then under Russian control until Moscow deemed that its conditions had been fully met. Kyiv would also have been forced to grant Russian the status of official state language and adopt a range of laws targeting Ukrainian religion, history, and national identity that harked back the russification policies of the Soviet and Tsarist empires​

Putin’s 2022 ‘peace proposal’ was a blueprint for the destruction of Ukraine

New details of talks between Russia and Ukraine during spring 2022 confirm that Putin’s alleged peace proposal was in fact a call for unconditional surrender and a blueprint for the destruction of the Ukrainian state, writes Peter Dickinson.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

 

[DANC]

We probably don't see eye to eye on Russia. That's ok. My opinion is that the US and NATO were responsible for instigating and goading Putin. Putin had very clear redlines that were crossed. We did not negotiate in good faith. To me it's no different than if Putin was threatening the US via Mexico. I doubt the American public would tolerate it. Russia is surrounded by NATO on all sides.

There was also an ongoing ethnic cleansing of Russians and the Russian language. Banning Russian books, radio stations, etc.

We are doing the same threatening behavior with China right now in the Pacific imo. We need to mind our own business and not meddle in others backyards. You can't bark and threaten others then get angry when they've had enough and punch back.

If we insist states along the Mexican border teach in English to kids who speak Spanish, is that a justification for Mexico to invade those states?