All it would take is the others negotiating the border issue in this country with the funding and I don't care if they are separate issues. Both sides take hostages like this on the budget all the time.
Russia-Ukraine war has begun
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
Inside Speaker Johnson's foreign aid play
Speaker Mike Johnson and House GOP leaders finally have a plan to send aid to embattled U.S. allies.Now they have to pass it.
punchbowl.news
They negotiated a deal have helped on the border, but Trump didn't want any progress on the border, so he got the MAGA Republicans to reject it. It was not perfect, but it certainly wasn't worthless as Trump instructed MAGAs to call it. Of course they complied.
In the meantime, Ukraine is in desperate need of more military aid to stop Russia's advances. Can't wait longer on this. Do it in the form of loans but let's do it.
I'm not disagreeing.. Just a question as I have not been following the maps lately.
Have the orchs been actually making any, successful ground advances that they actually keep ground? I simply don't know, thought maybe you would.
Russia is making slow advances in several areas now. There's too much of a munitions mismatch, especially in missiles and artillery.
That bill was DOA because it codified allowing in almost 2 million people a year before restrictions really kicked in. Couple that with the illegals currently demonstrating in New York because they aren't getting to stay in 5* hotels for free anymore and you can see why there is an intransigence to make that deal. (The majority of their voters don't want a deal like that.)
Government is give and take, the GOP is always accused of being the problem when they won't give on something. Johnson is sending separate funding bills. One of them funds Ukraine, Israel, and the border. All the Democrats have to do is play ball. They are playing politics with this as much as anyone else.
That 5,000 a day thing was vastly misunderstood. That was about processing them, not necessarily letting them stay.
Once processed in they never leave. We just added a few US states in illegal immigration population and I think most people that have an opinion on stopping the flow (at least on the GOP side) run similar to mine. No more wordplay gimmicks about "processing" or future court dates or any of that junk. It should be go get in line at a point of entry or no entry at all. Those who violate that rule should receive a lifetime ban from ever getting another opportunity to legally immigrate.
All that being said, I want to know what the Ukraine endgame is. What is the limit in money we are willing to spend over there? Can they ever "win". The military/government lied to us about Vietnam and Afghanistan and we dumped hundreds of billions into those efforts (and Iraq) and we have nothing to show for it. I remain unconvinced the Ukrainians can win so I would want to know what the goal of the money is. Bleed until they have no one left to bleed? OK, that hurts the Russians but that expense for us piles up and we are sitting on $34+ trillion in debt. That war is going to have to be negotiated, if we are spending money to try and force favorable terms, ok. If this is just a foreign forever war than I think the damage was done to Russia and the Ukrainians are better off to sue for peace and then terrorize the occupied areas.
Spending bills should be split out like they were in the past so that we can have real discussions about where the money goes without everything being held hostage together.
It was better than the status quo and we MAGA said, “no, we’ll let a much worse situation continue.” It also included 10s of thousands more border agents.
Not to over simplify but 10s of thousands of additional boarder agents, that are the equivalent of the “take a number” machine at the DMV, is the traditional GOP shit that MAGA is pissed about.
It’s not even Dem light, it’s… here’s a ticket you pull out of my left pocket, please put your pork $$ in my right pocket. “This conversation never happened” .
We can tear down all border security measures and put in keiosk, for what you’re ok with, for Pennie’s on the billions.
The plan is to introduce the 3 aid packages as separate bills. The way I understand it is that the same rules will cover them
It’ll be the same old bullshit . Ukraine gets bullets… ( I hope)
Israel will get a few. ( I’m in the camp the Israel is capable of defeating their opponent but we should show support)
Our southern boarder gets a tourist agency called USA Invasion, take a number, here’s a hotel and my/ our money to live off of and we turn a blind eye.. (I want sniper training down there! STAT)!
Disagree. From my perspective it basically set in stone the current status quo of insanely high illegal immigration forever and then bestowed upon it the legal protection of "processed".
Border agents that don't block people from coming in but instead help "process" more people isn't what I would want.
What? More border agents is Republican all day long. We want to stop illegal immigration we need more people on the border to do it.
How exactly does more cash out lay, more gov employees playing matador, accomplish that? How EXACTLY?
Ya know, I was just thinking about your post supporting this 10,000 more, 100,000 more border agents concept. It’s sounding more and more Saul Alinsky the more I try to understand your stance.
Narrowing on the boarder, there are explicit and implicit parts of laws and norms. We all know that EFFING dishonest politicians spend extensive amounts of time, resources and MY EFFING MONEY, to make the explicit boarder laws verbal EFFING Swiss cheese, but to the laymen, the implicit is … the people’s will. Gov OF THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE….. and the people see the bullshit the district of corruption is getting away with now.
Why, as a us service man, are you always siding with the verbiage of the law written by the district of corruption to confiscate , instead of considering the intent of the law and the natural understanding of the intent? Everything, it seems, which you defend, only takes us closer to Alinskys model of Marxist? …
I understand if you don’t answer that.
An equivalency to most of your arguments. It’s ok for people to have pipe bombs in subways, if we add more national guard to prevent it…
Totally ludicrous.
That's not true. It includes the people who are processed and immediately deported.
But it doesn't really matter. Fact is, the proposed bill set a limit where, as of now, there is no limit. It set a red flag to institute stricter rules, whereas right now, there is no red flag, and there are no stricter rules. The GOP dumped a good step in the right direction because Trump told them to for political reasons, and if you try to deny that, you're either a political hack or a complete idiot.
Are you on drugs? We want to secure the southern border. Republicans want more border agents to do it. I don’t know what you are, but you seem to believe we can magically secure the border without spending any money on it. Very strange.
We? You sure about that Tex? The previous admin used the EXACT SAME LAWS ON THE BOOKS as today, to make, in his last days ~ 500 people per day crossing the boarder. And then sent them packing.
You want to agree to allow 5,000 , with 10,000 more agents, and then give them a paper ticket, see ya ( never again). It’s like you drive a battle cruiser into 300 enemy carriers, and say… oh well, we kinda made it look like our mission wasn’t our actual mission to destroy our self.
I honestly have some respect for you, but you look more like a Trojan horse with crap like this.
Nothing about today’s boarder doctrine is anything but an internal Trojan horse.
That’s all quite unhinged. Sorry. This is supposed to be a non political thread too. Let’s leave it.
That’s probably my bad, my point wasn’t intended “political”. It was your support for Ukraine , which I agree with, although for maybe different reasons, do have some strings.
Dems have not made this complicated. Republicans have. For 40+ yrs dems have laid down the “law”and swamp pubs simply tuck tail and run.
At some point we have to protect us !
That ain’t happening, we are actually spending money and PAYING FOR NGO’s to make this happen.
I want Russia dead as a people and a country…. Yep I said it. They’ve been brainwashed to a point I’m not willing to waste 6 generations to teach them at my cost. Darwin them out.
Consider it a sociology experiment. I’m ok with that. (At this point, with room to learn).
But you still seem to be a Trojan horse. And I’m sorry that your posts make many of us feel that way.
They weren't being hired to stop people. They were being hired to "process" the nearly 2 million illegals that were going to basically be granted entry into the country underneath a new legal protection (processed) that wouldn't shut down until 5,000 a day had entered.
That bill wasn't stemming the flow, it was granting the first 5,000 people a day (over 1.8 million a year) entry into the US with a protected status until they were adjudicated at some point later...after they have disappeared into the country, put down roots, had anchor babies, and are now undeportable because "meanies". No thank you. Give me the 10,000 agents, shut the border down, force everyone that can walk across the border to do the same things that those who cannot have to do in order to get citizenship.
That bill was just Democrat game playing around the border. No f'ing way would I ever sign up to allow nearly 2 million illegals a year into the country to be "processed" because we all know that once they are here they practically have to kill someone to throw them out. And frankly, all the jobs that Americans won't do are getting taken over by kiosks and the like. The last thing we need around here is 2 million more mouths to feed through the entitlement systems every year.
No. They would have helped slow down the flow and not everyone that is processed would be allowed to stay. This was a provision that the Republican negotiators wanted in the deal. If we continue with this no compromise stance, we don't get anything we want to make things incrementally better. We'll allow things to get worse instead.
That's flatly not true. There was no new legal protection, no new allowance of admissions. The bill would have added a restriction that didn't and doesn't currently exist. The GOP killed it precisely because it accomplished something, and accomplishing something is politically bad when a Democrat is in the White House during an election year. You're too smart to fall for this.
Why is a bill like that needed? It wasn't under Trump.
You guys just ignoring that?
2019 doesn't look like it was very good, worse than any year under Obama.
Border crossing encounters U.S. 1990-2022 | Statista
The number of illegal border crossings reached an all-time high in 2022, with over 2.2 million migrant encounters registered by the U.S. Border Patrol.
www.statista.com
And yes, it is much higher now than 2019.
Fine. Obama didn't need any other laws, either.2019 doesn't look like it was very good, worse than any year under Obama.
Border crossing encounters U.S. 1990-2022 | Statista
The number of illegal border crossings reached an all-time high in 2022, with over 2.2 million migrant encounters registered by the U.S. Border Patrol.
And yes, it is much higher now than 2019.
Ohhh snap moment right there.
Shit off the border, prioritize USA, then immediately send Russian neutralizing kabooms to Ukraine. Pretty simple, right?
House could have easily taken up the Senate passed bill, made changes as needed via amendments.... attached the foreign security aid to it... Put it on the floor and passed it.... Would have put a lot of political pressure on certain House Dems and would have pushed it back into Schumer's hands to deal with.
Instead they tried... Exactly nothing.
Why would they?... it wasn't attached to anything they wanted.
Why didn't they do what you suggested the House do? Attach amendments and put it back on the House?
You seem to think they House is the only holdup on foreign aid and it's far from it.
Have the Senate accept acceptable border legislation and it will all be over in a few days.
The Senate passed their bill. And now the House is going to do the same in a few days. It is over.
Regarding border security and the failed effort:
Oklahoma Republican Sen. James Lankford, one of the key negotiators on the bipartisan border measure, supported it. In a stunning moment during the debate on the bill, Lankford said that he was threatened by a "popular commentator" for negotiating the bill.
"I had a popular commentator four weeks ago that I talked to that told me flat out, before they knew any of the contents of the bill ... that told me flat out 'if you try to move a bill that solves the border crisis during this presidential year, I will do whatever I can to destroy you,'" Lankford said. "Because I do not want you to solve this during the presidential election."
"By the way, they have been faithful to their promise, and have done everyhthing they can do destroy me in the past several weeks," the Oklahoma Republican added.
Dichotomy for me, although this is funny as hell and totally spot on.
I personally want as much pain inflicted on Russia as possible to put them back in their box.
On the other hand, we have our own much closer issues that effects us much more and have a cartel in the white house and swamp that are probably more powerful than putin.
We have the ability to cancel both, figuratively. But not the organization. sad times for the USA.
