Russia-Ukraine war has begun
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
Who is the 'Concord owner'?
EDIT: Nevermind. I watched the video - he's talking about the Concord Catering company - Prigozhin.
I'll bet Putin is just shocked - SHOCKED - by all this. How could he have possibly known Prigozhin was profiting personally from all this......
Maybe in degree. Do you think US prisons are pleasant?
What about Marv's argument in the capital punishment thread that no contact incarceration may be the worst punishment of all?
I’ll add Trigger Warnings to the mix. Those are just stupid, are a nod toward mental weakness, are part of the common culture, and came straight outta higher ed.
When you have a couple thousand guys drive up to Moscow with no air support, no supply lines, no really opposing forces, turn back and have the FSB drop all criminal charges….what does logic tell us? Mutiny or total garbage? Cause if you or I tried that….plutonium would be in our near future.
Putin group orchestrated this entirely
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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I think there is something to the no-contact thing and personally think that is inhumane.
Re the pleasantness of US prisons, I guess in comparison to Russian ones they might be?
Now Turkish prisons, Joey . . .
A definite possibility.
But look at it this way - Putin got the hell our of Moscow when Wagner headed north. The Russian military didn't stop anyone and didn't even try. Putin saw that.
So I think he cut a deal, because he couldn't be sure what his own military would do. Prigozhin maybe had the troops to take over Moscow, but not enough to hold it.
Putin now gets to act like a hard ass and Prigozhin gets to live with all the freakin' money he's made. That sounds like a win-win to me for those 2.
Ennhhh . . . I can see why you'd say that . . . but I don't think so. I'm gonna guess this was a mutiny based on the Wagner Group's experience of a meat grinder in Ukraine.
What would Putin get out of the mere pretense of a mutiny? Of the prior rants from Prigozhin?
The reason no opposition? Everybody was in Ukraine.
My guess . . . is that Prigozhin has a date with plutonium . . . or bullets. Or that Putin demonstrates his control over a tough guy like Prigozhin. The rest of the Wagner Group will have to contend with the Ukrainian military or go back to prison . . . .
I think Putin was caught off-guard . . . and responded the way an organized crime boss would . . . by threatening the other guy's family.
“Putin is fleeing Moscow”
“Putin will be dead tomorrow”
I would say anyone writing those headlines has been discredited
There's another option, especially with Wagners outreach. Give them 1-3 weeks to solidify some commrades, then move in, limit the damage to killing Putin, limit russian bloodshed.
Prigoxhins food contracts now expand and Ukraine gets to start rebuilding. But who the hell knows? Neanderthals beat each other to death everyday. Just for fun.
I’m sure troops didn’t know or were told they were simply moving to Belarus…who knows what they were told but the threat of a coup was not serious.
Wagner core is only 3-4,000 troops not 25,000.
I think we had another round of social media amplifying disinformation
If you're talking about me, I never said Putin would be dead tomorrow.
The news reports said he left for St. Petersburg when Wagner was coming towards Moscow.
Ummm , they had well north of that number in Ukraine. Hell I think they had that many killed in Ukraine.
I was referencing the media headlines.
This was a total facade. Russian propaganda campaigns are elite.
I’m not buying reports of a few thousand guys running x number of miles to a city with no supply chain, invading 13 million people, with air defenses and spetznaz flooding the streets to depose Putin and take over the MoD.
What do you mean "not serious"? Putin sure seemed to take it seriously.
And you have better information? I'd be interested in seeing that . . . .
News reports said only national guard-type troops were in Rostov-on-Don and Moscow.
Spetznaz are theoretically in Ukraine.
I did see Midnight Express when it came out originally. *shudder*
I don't know about Russian prisons. Back in the day, gulags had a nasty reputation. But that doesn't make US prisons pleasant . . . something about having your freedom taken away, no matter what the circumstances . . . .
Justification for ousting MoD elite, draw out opposition support to purge, scapegoat others for Ukraine failure.
Putin can’t just fire Shoigu or Gerasimov without certainty that his inner circle won’t fracture. He already has a looming succession problem between them.
I will defer to Danc but that’s my Understanding
Where did that social media post come from?
Twitter. From a Toronto-based investor and fintech "CEO".
I think that's the outcome, but I don't think it was planned that way.
But I've always said it's a possibility.
It’s hard to decipher reality from propaganda.
I think the coup was staged. Not a real mutiny
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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I’m married. It’s bad but bearable. Sometimes
Then that would make him a puppet then, lame duck. If he's worked himself into a corner (which is obvious), I'd be alright with that.
so where is Wagner Group now? can't believe we aren't tracking where they went.
i agree that Ukraine was probably a much tougher fight than Wagner had encountered elsewhere.
and perhaps Prig thought he was gonna get help that didn't come through.
that said, we don't know what we don't know, so i'll look for another possibility just for discussion's sake.
what if Prig and Putin think getting to Kiev is faster and easier from Belarus than from where Wagner was pinned down in SE Ukraine, and wanted a way to reposition everything in Belarus without calling attention to the fact they were looking to blitz toward Kiev from the north.
just throwing that possibility out there since no one else has, and seems more logical than anything else.
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I can easily be wrong but I thought they were being folded into regular units. Al Jazeera was reporting Wagner's heavy weapons are being parsed out to Russian units.
and what if they aren't being folded into Russia's regular units, and exactly who is keeping track of that from the side of the west?
as for weapons, no doubt Russia has access to more.
That was my totally uneducated guess when I heard that Prig was to Belarus.
