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Like I said. When we had a decent shooter who could also set a pick, we won conf titles. Add in good passing and we won nattys. Didn't have that at the end of his tenure. It was still motion with screeners and shooters though. He was missing the types of players that made it all work.
The shot clock changes over the years made it harder to execute that offense, especially against zone defenses.

Or, rather, the shot clock made it easier to defend. Defenders didn't have to chase for so long and the defense could switch more screens at the end of the clock without having to worry about post ups coming from mismatches.

Still, a thing of beauty when run by talented kids.
 
The shot clock changes over the years made it harder to execute that offense, especially against zone defenses.

Or, rather, the shot clock made it easier to defend. Defenders didn't have to chase for so long and the defense could switch more screens at the end of the clock without having to worry about post ups coming from mismatches.

Still, a thing of beauty when run by talented kids.
I think he was slow to adjust. But when he figured it out, as evidenced by the team Davis took to the title game, he was on his way again. He just didn't have the social and campus political climate figured out then, but that's a whole different discussion.
 
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Like I said. When we had a decent shooter who could also set a pick, we won conf titles. Add in good passing and we won nattys. Didn't have that at the end of his tenure. It was still motion with screeners and shooters though. He was missing the types of players that made it all work.

Think what you want. We haven't had many shooters better than Guyton that weren't named Steve Alford.
 
Think what you want. We haven't had many shooters better than Guyton that weren't named Steve Alford.
I think we're saying the same thing. He played in those years at the end before Knight figured it out and started getting the pieces he needed again. Guyton and Lewis were the only seniors that made an impact, but that team had a load young talent in Newton, Odle, Gaston, Hornsby, Fife, Coverdale and Leach. All Sophs and Frosh.
 
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Pepperdine. 20 pt loss first round NCAA tourney 2000. RMK's last game. Team looked like they couldn't wait to end the season.

The slide began after the 1994 Sweet sixteen loss to BC (Bailey's last game) and the recruiting class the came in the next season (Reid, Miller, Mandaville, Patterson, Wilkerson, Hart) that looked like one of the best ever, but turned into a disaster. The last 6 yrs of RMK's run don't include a lot of great memories.
That is exactly correct, it looked like a new era, but never came to fruition. We spanked Duke on a Patterson 40 pt performance, and don't forget Mike Herman … should have been one of the great ones
 
I heard he is coming to the Purdue game and plans on throwing a chair at Glass.

I hope so





I don't think the 2013 team had a chance, imo. Roster wise maybe, but getting beat by Cuse wasn't a fluke, we were lucky to survive Temple in the game before. Isn't the Coach part of the team?

I remember a uofl buddy of mine telling me right before the cuze game what a bad matchup it was for IU.

I wish we could forever forget that entire year in history at IU
 
The Cleveland State and Richmond losses were not in consecutive seasons. We won the championship in-between.
Yes, I meant to correct that and got lost with too much other editing. That famous year in IU basketball lore, 1987, one would think IU fans would have cut Knight a little more slack with the subsequent Richmond early tournament loss, but from there on, the grumbling started to escalate, seemingly every year until the IU administration finally railroaded The General out of commission.
 
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James “Fly” Williams was from SW Louisiana, i think. You’re probably thinking of Ken “Mouse” McFadden from Cleveland State. That was a lousy, snowy day in the Carrier Dome, but we got to see David Robinson, so it wasn’t all bad.
Austin Peay I believe.
 
I wish there was still no shot clock. I hate the one pass and a shot offense so prevalent today. Or the weave and heave.
 
I don't think the 2013 team had a chance, imo. Roster wise maybe, but getting beat by Cuse wasn't a fluke, we were lucky to survive Temple in the game before. Isn't the Coach part of the team?

I had them as a legitimate team that could win the championship based off the fact they were ranked #1 several weeks that season, highly ranked all season, won the Big Ten, and were a 1 seed.

I do think they peaked in January and the Cuse matchup was a tough one no doubt.
 
Reid (LSU), Miller (Kansas), Mandeville (as a red-shirt soph) was arrested for public drunkenness. A 20 year old coed claimed, as police arrived, that she had been physically assaulted by him. Wilkerson (U of Rio Grande) had his Mr. Basketball title taken away for refusing to go back into the game at the direction of his IN-KY HS All-Star coach. He sat out his IU soph year with a broken leg and then was dismissed the following season following arrest for domestic battery against his girlfriend during an argument. Patterson struggled with inconsistency with only occasional flashes of athletic brilliance. Hart could jump out of the gym, which is apparently what he did after only two seasons, never to play college ball again. In summary, that year proved to be a bust, recruiting-wise, but somethings don't become evident until it's too late to do anything about it. Those who fault Knight over this didn't like him to begin with.
Hart played two years at ISU.
 
Yes, there was a time. Lot's of folks don't remember the end of RMK's tenure very well, or I don't. Not many conference titles and lots of shaking of heads and early tourney exits. Do names like Pepperdine, Kent St, BC, Colorado, Cal, etc... ring a bell? Yes, I'm aware it's better than where we are at the moment, but no, we weren't winning conference titles nor sniffing national ones for many years prior to BK's departure.
He was fired when he actually had the perfect team for his system, counting his recruits, like JJ.
 
I had them as a legitimate team that could win the championship based off the fact they were ranked #1 several weeks that season, highly ranked all season, won the Big Ten, and were a 1 seed.

I do think they peaked in January and the Cuse matchup was a tough one no doubt.

They had a pretty good chance outside of some defenses. We knew that at the time too. Everyone knew the Syracuse match up was pretty much the worst possible. Cream didn't know how to beat a zone. Point blank.
 
They had a pretty good chance outside of some defenses. We knew that at the time too. Everyone knew the Syracuse match up was pretty much the worst possible. Cream didn't know how to beat a zone. Point blank.
 
Yes, I meant to correct that and got lost with too much other editing. That famous year in IU basketball lore, 1987, one would think IU fans would have cut Knight a little more slack with the subsequent Richmond early tournament loss, but from there on, the grumbling started to escalate, seemingly every year until the IU administration finally railroaded The General out of commission.
I think I jumbled up the recruiting classes in the 1994-1996 time frame but the overall point was that the program started it's decline after the 1994 season (and even 1994 was a step down from three great seasons in 1991-93). I've always thought it was a combination of these high rated recruits who either didn't live up to the hype, or couldn't handle RMK's style....and the change in the game with the clock and 3pt line, making a patient, motion-style offense less effective. I didn't even mention Recker and Collier departing. Many of us loved RMK as a coach and always pointed to the record (and the clean program) in defense of the latest Knight "antic". But once IU stopped winning B1G championships and started getting bounced early in the tourney (and sometimes embarrassingly), he became vulnerable.
 
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I think I jumbled up the recruiting classes in the 1994-1996 time frame but the overall point was that the program started it's decline after the 1994 season (and even 1994 was a step down from three great seasons in 1991-93). I've always thought it was a combination of these high rated recruits who either didn't live up to the hype, or couldn't handle RMK's style....and the change in the game with the clock and 3pt line, making a patient, motion-style offense less effective. I didn't even mention Recker and Collier departing. Many of us loved RMK as a coach and always pointed to the record (and the clean program) in defense of the latest Knight "antic". But once IU stopped winning B1G championships and started getting bounced early in the tourney (and sometimes embarrassingly), he became vulnerable.

Recall that RMK's behavior was far from 'constant' during his time at IU. The diminished success of the Program doubtless made terminating him easier for the University, but becoming "vulnerable" was something he accomplished all on his own. By the time he was fired, many (self included) were completely fed up with the Program having become far more about him than the Team on the Floor, and not in a good way.

Water under the bridge. Great Coach who perhaps got a little drunk on his own bathwater. Would love to see him walk out on the Floor at AH even if all he does is point to the Banners - that's all it would take to reduce the place to complete pandemonium.
 
I hope so







I remember a uofl buddy of mine telling me right before the cuze game what a bad matchup it was for IU.

I wish we could forever forget that entire year in history at IU

It was a bad matchup, because it required adjustment from our Coach, but we had very good tools to beat that Cuse team. Mostly we just needed Cody to take a 15' jumper from the elbow instead of driving in to the heart of the zone and allowing it to collapse on him. Mitch McGary (remember him?), who to me was a shadow of Cody, demonstrated exactly how to do it the following weekend.
 
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It was a bad matchup, because it required adjustment from our Coach, but we had very good tools to beat that Cuse team. Mostly we just needed Cody to take a 15' jumper from the elbow instead of driving in to the heart of the zone and allowing it to collapse on him. Mitch McGary (remember him?), who to me was a shadow of Cody, demonstrated exactly how to do it the following weekend.
I hate flashbacks of this game. This is the game it became clear CTC was not our guy (coming off a great season to top it).

Family and I were in the Courtyard hotel in Rockford IL that night (son had a tourney out there). Structured our entire evening around me being back in the room to watch this game. 90 seconds into the game, I text'd my brother (IU grad, lives in Naperville IL), and said "WTF? Did Crean even know Cuse plays a 2-3 zone? this looks bad already". By the first TV time out I knew we were screwed, season over, Cody/Vic/Jordy/Wat all gone. Shitshow ever since, sans Yogi's Sr season when he put the team on his back (and bought CTC one more year).
 
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I think I jumbled up the recruiting classes in the 1994-1996 time frame but the overall point was that the program started it's decline after the 1994 season (and even 1994 was a step down from three great seasons in 1991-93). I've always thought it was a combination of these high rated recruits who either didn't live up to the hype, or couldn't handle RMK's style....and the change in the game with the clock and 3pt line, making a patient, motion-style offense less effective. I didn't even mention Recker and Collier departing. Many of us loved RMK as a coach and always pointed to the record (and the clean program) in defense of the latest Knight "antic". But once IU stopped winning B1G championships and started getting bounced early in the tourney (and sometimes embarrassingly), he became vulnerable.
Bob’s personality was an easy one for his detractors to dislike (much like you-know-who today). He proved to be too abrasive for the thin-skinned. I think that one whole recruiting class was an aberration that went totally wrong for Knight. Coupled with a few sprinklings of other disgruntled kids and a national news media...well, we know how slimy they can be. They were all angry anyway with the coming computer age and impending job insecurity. I came across an old article just the other day about Knight’s downfall and it was written there in history that Knight physically assaulted a student while cursing him. No where did the writer bother to include what drew Bob’s ire...the Harvey kid’s lack of respect toward an adult. Also, the Wilkerson head-butt during an intense teaching moment on the sideline during a game was included. Knight said it was accidental, but that’s not what the scribes wanted to hear so the headlines insinuated otherwise..another physical assault, just like Knight “stuffed” an unruly LSU fan in a trash can on Bourbon St. The whole thing came down as a sham of exaggerations, hearsay and outright lies that the media ran with and even a lot of IU fans were gullible enough to believe. These IU fans were the same one’s who thought the next best coach in the country was surely waiting in the wings for the “honor” to lead IU basketball under a new regime in the can’t-miss -hotbed of basketball recruiting. We’ve suffered ever since, listening to those same twits, now still bitching that we can’t seem to get an edge up on our competition. Yes, I’m still bitching too, but for different reason, because they didn’t appreciate how good we had it, even when they said we no longer had it.
 
Bob’s personality was an easy one for his detractors to dislike (much like you-know-who today). He proved to be too abrasive for the thin-skinned. I think that one whole recruiting class was an aberration that went totally wrong for Knight. Coupled with a few sprinklings of other disgruntled kids and a national news media...well, we know how slimy they can be. They were all angry anyway with the coming computer age and impending job insecurity. I came across an old article just the other day about Knight’s downfall and it was written there in history that Knight physically assaulted a student while cursing him. No where did the writer bother to include what drew Bob’s ire...the Harvey kid’s lack of respect toward an adult. Also, the Wilkerson head-butt during an intense teaching moment on the sideline during a game was included. Knight said it was accidental, but that’s not what the scribes wanted to hear so the headlines insinuated otherwise..another physical assault, just like Knight “stuffed” an unruly LSU fan in a trash can on Bourbon St. The whole thing came down as a sham of exaggerations, hearsay and outright lies that the media ran with and even a lot of IU fans were gullible enough to believe. These IU fans were the same one’s who thought the next best coach in the country was surely waiting in the wings for the “honor” to lead IU basketball under a new regime in the can’t-miss -hotbed of basketball recruiting. We’ve suffered ever since, listening to those same twits, now still bitching that we can’t seem to get an edge up on our competition. Yes, I’m still bitching too, but for different reason, because they didn’t appreciate how good we had it, even when they said we no longer had it.

amazing what they consider "physical assault" today. I was talking (when I should have been listening) during 8th grade practice back in the very early 80s, while my coach was talking. He took the ball he was holding and fired a fastball (with a basketball) at me from a side angle. Hit me square in the side of the head and knocked me down on my knees. After the birds stopping swirling in my head, he told me to run 20 laps or sit the first half of tomorrow's game on the bench (I was a starter). Nowadays I could get his ass fired for that. Times have changed. And young people have gotten soft, while I have become old crusty and grumpy.
 
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I think I jumbled up the recruiting classes in the 1994-1996 time frame but the overall point was that the program started it's decline after the 1994 season (and even 1994 was a step down from three great seasons in 1991-93). I've always thought it was a combination of these high rated recruits who either didn't live up to the hype, or couldn't handle RMK's style....and the change in the game with the clock and 3pt line, making a patient, motion-style offense less effective. I didn't even mention Recker and Collier departing. Many of us loved RMK as a coach and always pointed to the record (and the clean program) in defense of the latest Knight "antic". But once IU stopped winning B1G championships and started getting bounced early in the tourney (and sometimes embarrassingly), he became vulnerable.
I was an undergrad in the mid 90s and those were some rough years. Who would have thunk that the Calbert/Greg Graham 1993 team was the last great team we saw at IU?
 
amazing what they consider "physical assault" today. I was talking (when I should have been listening) during 8th grade practice back in the very early 80s, while my coach was talking. He took the ball he was holding and fired a fastball (with a basketball) at me from a side angle. Hit me square in the side of the head and knocked me down on my knees. After the birds stopping swirling in my head, he told me to run 20 laps or sit the first half of tomorrow's game on the bench (I was a starter). Nowadays I could get his ass fired for that. Times have changed. And young people have gotten soft, while I have become old crusty and grumpy.

your coach is a piece of shit. Nowadays and back then, both, he should have been fired and arrested for potentially seriously injuring a kid.

Firing a basketball at a kid’s head?

WE ARE JUST SO SOFT THESE DAYS YOU CANT EVEN ASSAULT CHILDREN!!!
 
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your coach is a piece of shit. Nowadays and back then, both, he should have been fired and arrested for potentially seriously injuring a kid.

Firing a basketball at a kid’s head?

WE ARE JUST SO SOFT THESE DAYS YOU CANT EVEN ASSAULT CHILDREN!!!
side note...my dad was the Supt of Schools, so his boss. Was a tough spot for a 14 yr old kid to be in. I sucked it up, ran my laps, and put up 17 and 9 the next night. And have hated that sumbitch every day since.

I guess was I was leaning towards was the press calling the RMK/Harvey kid incident 'phyical assault'.
 
side note...my dad was the Supt of Schools, so his boss. Was a tough spot for a 14 yr old kid to be in. I sucked it up, ran my laps, and put up 17 and 9 the next night. And have hated that sumbitch every day since.

I guess was I was leaning towards was the press calling the RMK/Harvey kid incident 'phyical assault'.

17/9 in an 8th grade game???!!!!
Are you George Mikan?
 
side note...my dad was the Supt of Schools, so his boss. Was a tough spot for a 14 yr old kid to be in. I sucked it up, ran my laps, and put up 17 and 9 the next night. And have hated that sumbitch every day since.

I guess was I was leaning towards was the press calling the RMK/Harvey kid incident 'phyical assault'.

Ok, well those are very different situations. I don’t agree with what knight did either but it’s not even remotely the same.

If I ever found out a coach did that to one of my kids, the coach would be eating their remaining meals through a straw.
 
17/9 in an 8th grade game???!!!!
Are you George Mikan?
no just played really, really pissed off that night. And always took rebounding personally. I will give this coach credit for that. We had ferocious rebounding drills in practice. He convinced us (me, at least) that rebounding was about your opponent questioning your very manhood...who wanted that damn ball more? Best friends during the day, but rebounding drills during practice were an act of war. Winners get water, losers get laps. Then shoot 10 free throws. one suicide ('ladders' today) for every one you miss. Gets you to take rebounding and free throws very seriously. See why I'm so grumpy in life now??

Sad thing is, my great game the next night probably solidified his 'coaching' methods the day before in his head even more.
 
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Ok, well those are very different situations. I don’t agree with what knight did either but it’s not even remotely the same.

If I ever found out a coach did that to one of my kids, the coach would be eating their remaining meals through a straw.
agree, I coached my son's travel baseball team for years and wouldn't lay on finger on any kid, even my own (who I wanted to throw head first into the trunk of our car several times for taking advantage of the 'my dad is the coach, I can do what I want' angle).
 
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no just played really, really pissed off that night. And always took rebounding personally. I will give this coach credit for that. We had ferocious rebounding drills in practice. He convinced us (me, at least) that rebounding was about your opponent questioning your very manhood...who wanted that damn ball more? Best friends during the day, but rebounding drills during practice were an act of war. Winners get water, losers get laps. Then shoot 10 free throws. one suicide ('ladders' today) for every one you miss. Gets you to take rebounding and free throws very seriously. See why I'm so grumpy in life now??
Well, you deserved another beaning for not getting a double/double...slacker.
 
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