Crean is not a moron.
Most 3rd grade coaches know how to attack a zone better than he did.
That game against Syracuse was the most disgraceful thing I've ever seen on a court.
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Crean is not a moron.
Class balance in what manner? My guess is he isn't happy with cupboard and is stocking it up. I like what he is doing. Been awhile since we had a long team that plays defenseClass balance.....something we were told Archie cared about.
Guess not.
Class balance in what manner? My guess is he isn't happy with cupboard and is stocking it up. I like what he is doing. Been awhile since we had a long team that plays defense
In today's game you basically play a Pg and 4 guys that can play on the wing. So why is having bigger guys with perimeter skills an issue for you? Also next year we will have scholarships available. Someone will transfer and someone will go pro..davis possibly (hopefully Romeo). So the 19 class will have at least 3 rides available by the time they show up on campus.1 ride open in one year and 5 rides open in another.
If we didn't have a bunch of forwards already, his plan would make sense. It's the one position we already have a ton of.
Not only that, in the next class, we have at least two 5 star forwards giving us serious consideration.
In today's game you basically play a Pg and 4 guys that can play on the wing. So why is having bigger guys with perimeter skills an issue for you? Also next year we will have scholarships available. Someone will transfer and someone will go pro..davis possibly (hopefully Romeo). So the 19 class will have at least 3 rides available by the time they show up on campus.
Ok than just be unhappy about how he is building a roster. I will wait to see how the season goes once they are on campusNobody transferred this year.
And if he thought the "cupboard was bare", he shouldn't have asked those players to come back if they didn't fit his long term goals. Disservice to them and the team.
The freak in the Oval is 10,000 times worse....
to be able to recruit and coach a team to three Sweet 16s in nine years proves that he had at least decent coaching ability. Just not enough to be head coach at IU.
Nobody is saying making the sweet 16 is good enough but saying if he was a moron then he couldn't have gotten a team to the sweet 16.Think about those 3 Sweet 16's:
2012 & 2013 - both because of having Cody Zeller. Crean benefited GREATLY by Washington being a rabid IU town in order to get him. And in both Round of 32 games (VCU, Temple) they nearly lost.
2016 - Beat a very mediocre Kentucky team (with no one solid inside) to get to Philly - where they got blasted by UNC.
Tom Crean might have done some good things in his 9 years (think academics), but if judging his success is SW 16's we've really slipped as a fanbase.
How do you know none offered him a job? Do you have insider information on every job that opened up? ...
If Obama could run right now against your hero, he'd win at least 45 states.
I can't stand Hillary. But a retarded monkey would be better than what we have now.
Like the one we had before him.???
No.
Ok than just be unhappy about how he is building a roster. I will wait to see how the season goes once they are on campus
This is an IU Basketball forum not your private MSNBC
Wow, calling a black man a monkey explains your support for Trump. At least Obama could speak beyond a fourth grade level and didn't brag about sexually assaulting women.
Nobody is saying making the sweet 16 is good enough but saying if he was a moron then he couldn't have gotten a team to the sweet 16.
Most 3rd grade coaches know how to attack a zone better than he did.
That game against Syracuse was the most disgraceful thing I've ever seen on a court.
The POINT is, Scott, that making the Sweet 16 with those teams doesn't prove Crean isn't a moron. With Zeller you SHOULD make the Sweet 16. Yogi's team made it because they faced a mediocre UK team.
IU self imposed a very minor penalty. Lost ONE scholarship. Not even remotely close to the death penalty.Yeah... that was disgraceful. Truth is, that team (and most of Crean's teams) fell apart in mid-February. He never got them to peak at the right time. But as bad as that game was, it doesn't show that he is a moron. If you'd like, I could pick a few games that no moron could have won as well... and certainly no one thought he was a moron after we beat UK. Again... my point is, he was a decent coach. He lost games where we played poorly against teams we should not have lost to. His substitution patterns were often bad. He was often outcoached by better coaches. His teams were occasionally woefully unprepared, and he never had them peaking in March. He had faults as a coach that were exposed due to him being head coach at the highest D1 level. That doesn't make him a moron. We also won games against teams that we were not expected to beat. He brought IU back from what was in effect, the death penalty to have wins against UK, MSU, UNC, Kansas... He recruited players that were highly drafted in the NBA. He won the B1G and reached 3 Sweet 16s. That is not something a moron could do. He's not an elite coach. He's not a moron. Not everything is black and white.
Yeah... that was disgraceful. Truth is, that team (and most of Crean's teams) fell apart in mid-February. He never got them to peak at the right time. But as bad as that game was, it doesn't show that he is a moron. If you'd like, I could pick a few games that no moron could have won as well... and certainly no one thought he was a moron after we beat UK. Again... my point is, he was a decent coach. He lost games where we played poorly against teams we should not have lost to. His substitution patterns were often bad. He was often outcoached by better coaches. His teams were occasionally woefully unprepared, and he never had them peaking in March. He had faults as a coach that were exposed due to him being head coach at the highest D1 level. That doesn't make him a moron. We also won games against teams that we were not expected to beat. He brought IU back from what was in effect, the death penalty to have wins against UK, MSU, UNC, Kansas... He recruited players that were highly drafted in the NBA. He won the B1G and reached 3 Sweet 16s. That is not something a moron could do. He's not an elite coach. He's not a moron. Not everything is black and white.
IU self imposed a very minor penalty. Lost ONE scholarship. Not even remotely close to the death penalty.
Crean had 5 players drafted in 9 years. That's pathetic. In line with something you'd see at Purdue. Most major programs are putting in 15-20 over that timeframe. The myth that he was a good recruiter/developer was just that...a myth.
Tom Crean was the worst thing to ever happen to IUBB...ever. Worse than Davis. Worse than Sampson. Because it went on for a decade and absolutely killed the IU brand. Tom Crean's IU is all most of these recruits know. It's going to take awhile to dig out of the hole he nearly buried us in.
I thought this board was to discuss IU basketball, not politics or religion.
Do you even know what the "death penalty" is? Clearly you don't. The death penalty was used to restrict recruiting and scholarships GOING FORWARD. Crean had no restrictions whatsoever. And still finished dead last in the conference in year THREE. That's a complete joke.Unreal...
IU's first team under Crean returned ONE scholarship player (who was deep on the bench the previous year), and one walkon. When I say it was virtually the death penalty... that's what I'm talking about. There is little actual real life difference between that and an NCAA "death penalty."
You can choose to look at the number of players drafted, or you could choose to look at two top five draftees in one year. And while Yogi wasn't drafted, he's having a good NBA career so far. It's all how you want to look at the statistics.
Worse thing to ever happen to IUBB? We'll definitely disagree on this. The coach he replaced was much worse. Sampson killed IU's reputation, brought in some players with bad character, left the program decimated and... paved the way for a hire like Crean. No elite coach would touch IU after Sampson. Crean cleaned up the mess. If you want to say that IU's brand is dead (which I would argue against), then blame Sampson for creating the conditions that caused us to hire a coach like Crean.
Archie is the coach now and Crean is long gone so move on.Do you even know what the "death penalty" is? Clearly you don't. The death penalty was used to restrict recruiting and scholarships GOING FORWARD. Crean had no restrictions whatsoever. And still finished dead last in the conference in year THREE. That's a complete joke.
He and Glass lowered expectations of fans and recruits. Much greater hit to the brand than getting caught making too many phone calls. Recruits couldn't care less about what Sampson did. But when the face of your program is Tom Crean for a decade, it pollutes an entire generation of potential recruits.
but you are cool paying much more for corporate welfare. making a CEO's G6 payment is more important to you than the next generation of Americans? cool. they've got you brainwashed but whatever.
Do you even know what the "death penalty" is? Clearly you don't. The death penalty was used to restrict recruiting and scholarships GOING FORWARD. Crean had no restrictions whatsoever. And still finished dead last in the conference in year THREE. That's a complete joke.
He and Glass lowered expectations of fans and recruits. Much greater hit to the brand than getting caught making too many phone calls. Recruits couldn't care less about what Sampson did. But when the face of your program is Tom Crean for a decade, it pollutes an entire generation of potential recruits.
Sorry shouldn't say unhappy. I know what Archie said but I think he wasn't happy with the size and length of the current roster. He needed to add that to run his system. Once his system and players are In Place I think you will see him manage the roster differently. I also think we will see some one and done types come in as well.I think you're the smartest poster on here so it's a little surprising you've joined the Drama Queens to say I'm "unhappy"........I'm just expressing a concern.....especially based on Archie's own past statements.
Do you even know what the "death penalty" is? Clearly you don't. The death penalty was used to restrict recruiting and scholarships GOING FORWARD. Crean had no restrictions whatsoever.
DUMBBlame Adam Herbert more than anyone. He's the racist POS that wouldn't allow Greenspan to hire a white man. He did more damage to IU basketball than any other single person. Without him we wouldve canned Davis probably 2 years earlier and brought in Matta.
I'm not ignoring anything.TD... you ignore the fact that Crean recruited those players to IU. A moron could not have successfully recruited a team that good. Zeller, Watford, Yogi, Oladipo... Crean recruited these players. Does he not deserve credit for bringing them in? I don't understand why people can't see both the good and the bad during Crean's time at IU. There was obviously both. Yes... a moron could not have recruited a team and taken them to the Sweet 16 three times in nine years. Why is that hard to understand? No one is claiming he's elite... I just have a problem with the demonizing of a coach who was a decent coach, but not good enough to meet IU's standards.
I'm not ignoring anything.
Zeller came to IU because of where he grew up - and because the skinny on Crean hadn't completely been exposed yet. Had Cody been in the Class of 2013 instead of 2011. we likely don't get him.
And without him, 2012 & 2013 Sw 16's are non-existent. Crean was 166.135 in 9 seasons t IU. Wanna know how he was without Cody Zeller? 110-119, even counting the 2015-16 season when Yogi was a senior. With Zeller the Hoosiers finished 5th (2012) and 1st (2013) in the Big 10; the other seven seasons IU managed to finish above SEVENTH 1 time (2016 - 1st). Even with all the talent coming thru Indiana, with the resources and recruiting budget. ONE TIME above 7th in the non-Zeller years. With Zeller we were 4-0 against Purdue; without, 1-10.
And the 2016 team - do you realize just how fortunate that turned out for Crean? Hanner and Devin Davis got busted smokng pot in the dorms. Crean wanted to KEEP them, but was overruled by McRobbie & Glass. Had Crean gotten his way, Max Bielfeldt never becomes a Hoosier - and he was a CRUCIAL part of that team.
I look at how things truly transpire. Only someone like Crean could have the resources he had and screw it up to the extent he did.