Most 3rd grade coaches know how to attack a zone better than he did.
That game against Syracuse was the most disgraceful thing I've ever seen on a court.
RLangford and DGarland to attend Hoosier Hysteria..
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Most 3rd grade coaches know how to attack a zone better than he did.
That game against Syracuse was the most disgraceful thing I've ever seen on a court.
Class balance in what manner? My guess is he isn't happy with cupboard and is stocking it up. I like what he is doing. Been awhile since we had a long team that plays defense
1 ride open in one year and 5 rides open in another.
If we didn't have a bunch of forwards already, his plan would make sense. It's the one position we already have a ton of.
Not only that, in the next class, we have at least two 5 star forwards giving us serious consideration.
In today's game you basically play a Pg and 4 guys that can play on the wing. So why is having bigger guys with perimeter skills an issue for you? Also next year we will have scholarships available. Someone will transfer and someone will go pro..davis possibly (hopefully Romeo). So the 19 class will have at least 3 rides available by the time they show up on campus.
Nobody transferred this year.
And if he thought the "cupboard was bare", he shouldn't have asked those players to come back if they didn't fit his long term goals. Disservice to them and the team.
Ok than just be unhappy about how he is building a roster. I will wait to see how the season goes once they are on campus
This is an IU Basketball forum not your private MSNBC
Well for the record his dad is saying he's closer to 6'10" so he's probably a solid 6'9" and still growing.
Of course this isn't soccer and you can defend with your hands...he supposedly has freakish length, like a 7'1" wingspan. I'm more interested in his fingertip to foot size vs the top of his head height. The greatest defensive post defender to walk the earth was just 6'9" (Bill Russell).
He's a little raw offensively but is supposedly pretty gifted defensively, which is why he's getting dinged in rankings (we love offense of course).
As had been pointed out before, Archie plays a pack line D and attacks in transition. Basically he wants length and speed. A 300 pound seven footer doesn't fit.
People get hung up on a set construct of size.
One of the greatest teams I ever witnessed wasn't an IU team...it was Illinois in 1989. Their center was Leonard Hamilton who was 6'7".
He was their tallest player who actually played.
However their shortest was 6'5" (Kendall Gill and Stephen Bardo).
They had four 6'6"-6'7" guys (Nick Anderson, Kenny Battle, Marcus Liberty and Leonard Hamilton).
They were considered the best team in the country and it was an upset when they lost by a last second bucket in the final four.
Of course we won the conference that year but the committee gave them the #1 seed because Gill was out most of the season with an injury.
Our 93 team started a 6'8" center and our tallest player was 6'9".
Height is a measurement, but reach is more important.
Of course this isn't soccer and you can defend with your hands...he supposedly has freakish length, like a 7'1" wingspan. I'm more interested in his fingertip to foot size vs the top of his head height. The greatest defensive post defender to walk the earth was just 6'9" (Bill Russell).
He's a little raw offensively but is supposedly pretty gifted defensively, which is why he's getting dinged in rankings (we love offense of course).
As had been pointed out before, Archie plays a pack line D and attacks in transition. Basically he wants length and speed. A 300 pound seven footer doesn't fit.
People get hung up on a set construct of size.
One of the greatest teams I ever witnessed wasn't an IU team...it was Illinois in 1989. Their center was Leonard Hamilton who was 6'7".
He was their tallest player who actually played.
However their shortest was 6'5" (Kendall Gill and Stephen Bardo).
They had four 6'6"-6'7" guys (Nick Anderson, Kenny Battle, Marcus Liberty and Leonard Hamilton).
They were considered the best team in the country and it was an upset when they lost by a last second bucket in the final four.
Of course we won the conference that year but the committee gave them the #1 seed because Gill was out most of the season with an injury.
Our 93 team started a 6'8" center and our tallest player was 6'9".
Height is a measurement, but reach is more important.
Think about those 3 Sweet 16's:
2012 & 2013 - both because of having Cody Zeller. Crean benefited GREATLY by Washington being a rabid IU town in order to get him. And in both Round of 32 games (VCU, Temple) they nearly lost.
2016 - Beat a very mediocre Kentucky team (with no one solid inside) to get to Philly - where they got blasted by UNC.
Tom Crean might have done some good things in his 9 years (think academics), but if judging his success is SW 16's we've really slipped as a fanbase.
Nobody is saying making the sweet 16 is good enough but saying if he was a moron then he couldn't have gotten a team to the sweet 16.
Wow, calling a black man a monkey explains your support for Trump. At least Obama could speak beyond a fourth grade level and didn't brag about sexually assaulting women.
I think you're the smartest poster on here so it's a little surprising you've joined the Drama Queens to say I'm "unhappy"........I'm just expressing a concern.....especially based on Archie's own past statements.
Someone said Crean was "the worst" and I just gave my own example, cupcake.
Go back to your safe space.
You made the monkey reference, not me.
Typical. You love throwing stones, but cry like a baby when one is thrown back at you.
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The POINT is, Scott, that making the Sweet 16 with those teams doesn't prove Crean isn't a moron. With Zeller you SHOULD make the Sweet 16. Yogi's team made it because they faced a mediocre UK team.
Yeah... that was disgraceful. Truth is, that team (and most of Crean's teams) fell apart in mid-February. He never got them to peak at the right time. But as bad as that game was, it doesn't show that he is a moron. If you'd like, I could pick a few games that no moron could have won as well... and certainly no one thought he was a moron after we beat UK. Again... my point is, he was a decent coach. He lost games where we played poorly against teams we should not have lost to. His substitution patterns were often bad. He was often outcoached by better coaches. His teams were occasionally woefully unprepared, and he never had them peaking in March. He had faults as a coach that were exposed due to him being head coach at the highest D1 level. That doesn't make him a moron. We also won games against teams that we were not expected to beat. He brought IU back from what was in effect, the death penalty to have wins against UK, MSU, UNC, Kansas... He recruited players that were highly drafted in the NBA. He won the B1G and reached 3 Sweet 16s. That is not something a moron could do. He's not an elite coach. He's not a moron. Not everything is black and white.
TD... you ignore the fact that Crean recruited those players to IU. A moron could not have successfully recruited a team that good. Zeller, Watford, Yogi, Oladipo... Crean recruited these players. Does he not deserve credit for bringing them in? I don't understand why people can't see both the good and the bad during Crean's time at IU. There was obviously both. Yes... a moron could not have recruited a team and taken them to the Sweet 16 three times in nine years. Why is that hard to understand? No one is claiming he's elite... I just have a problem with the demonizing of a coach who was a decent coach, but not good enough to meet IU's standards.
IU self imposed a very minor penalty. Lost ONE scholarship. Not even remotely close to the death penalty.
Crean had 5 players drafted in 9 years. That's pathetic. In line with something you'd see at Purdue. Most major programs are putting in 15-20 over that timeframe. The myth that he was a good recruiter/developer was just that...a myth.
Tom Crean was the worst thing to ever happen to IUBB...ever. Worse than Davis. Worse than Sampson. Because it went on for a decade and absolutely killed the IU brand. Tom Crean's IU is all most of these recruits know. It's going to take awhile to dig out of the hole he nearly buried us in.
Ok.....is he a "complete" moron? No.
But he's closer to one than he isn't.
If he was half as smart as he thinks he is, some NBA team would try to hire him. I've never even heard a whisper of any team wanting him when they go after almost every other coach that's had success.
Unreal...
IU's first team under Crean returned ONE scholarship player (who was deep on the bench the previous year), and one walkon. When I say it was virtually the death penalty... that's what I'm talking about. There is little actual real life difference between that and an NCAA "death penalty."
You can choose to look at the number of players drafted, or you could choose to look at two top five draftees in one year. And while Yogi wasn't drafted, he's having a good NBA career so far. It's all how you want to look at the statistics.
Worse thing to ever happen to IUBB? We'll definitely disagree on this. The coach he replaced was much worse. Sampson killed IU's reputation, brought in some players with bad character, left the program decimated and... paved the way for a hire like Crean. No elite coach would touch IU after Sampson. Crean cleaned up the mess. If you want to say that IU's brand is dead (which I would argue against), then blame Sampson for creating the conditions that caused us to hire a coach like Crean.
I thought this board was to discuss IU basketball, not politics or religion.
Well... IU basketball IS religion.
Do you even know what the "death penalty" is? Clearly you don't. The death penalty was used to restrict recruiting and scholarships GOING FORWARD. Crean had no restrictions whatsoever. And still finished dead last in the conference in year THREE. That's a complete joke.
He and Glass lowered expectations of fans and recruits. Much greater hit to the brand than getting caught making too many phone calls. Recruits couldn't care less about what Sampson did. But when the face of your program is Tom Crean for a decade, it pollutes an entire generation of potential recruits.
Archie is the coach now and Crean is long gone so move on.
Your opinion only. No more valid than mine.
I think you are the one who has been brainwashed.
Imagine a world where after finishing dead last in year three with more ranked talent than all but four teams we realize that Crean is pretty much all smoke and mirrors and we cut ties like most blue blood programs would have...and then turned north to offer the keys to a coach who is young, obviously talented, from Indiana and fresh off his second unbelievable national title run.
I'm tickled pink with Archie. We finally got it right...but not letting Crean go after year three was a major blunder on our part.
As much as I like Archie, most will be able to tell probably after this year if he's legit.
It doesn't take a decade of excuses. Year three was an abomination.
Blame Adam Herbert more than anyone. He's the racist POS that wouldn't allow Greenspan to hire a white man. He did more damage to IU basketball than any other single person. Without him we wouldve canned Davis probably 2 years earlier and brought in Matta.
Sorry shouldn't say unhappy. I know what Archie said but I think he wasn't happy with the size and length of the current roster. He needed to add that to run his system. Once his system and players are In Place I think you will see him manage the roster differently. I also think we will see some one and done types come in as well.
Methinks you need to learn a little about the NCAA death penalty. It has nothing to do with future recruiting - it's about the cessation of that sport for at least one year's time. It means, when the team resumes competition, it starts over from scratch. Not unlike what Crean faced his first year at IU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_(NCAA)
Why does it seem every post about Langford devolves into an argument about something else? Usually, it seems to be whether IU or UL is the most followed team in Floyd County. This one turned into ripping on Crean, politics, and religion. Maybe the mods should lock this one.
I'm not ignoring anything.
Zeller came to IU because of where he grew up - and because the skinny on Crean hadn't completely been exposed yet. Had Cody been in the Class of 2013 instead of 2011. we likely don't get him.
And without him, 2012 & 2013 Sw 16's are non-existent. Crean was 166.135 in 9 seasons t IU. Wanna know how he was without Cody Zeller? 110-119, even counting the 2015-16 season when Yogi was a senior. With Zeller the Hoosiers finished 5th (2012) and 1st (2013) in the Big 10; the other seven seasons IU managed to finish above SEVENTH 1 time (2016 - 1st). Even with all the talent coming thru Indiana, with the resources and recruiting budget. ONE TIME above 7th in the non-Zeller years. With Zeller we were 4-0 against Purdue; without, 1-10.
And the 2016 team - do you realize just how fortunate that turned out for Crean? Hanner and Devin Davis got busted smokng pot in the dorms. Crean wanted to KEEP them, but was overruled by McRobbie & Glass. Had Crean gotten his way, Max Bielfeldt never becomes a Hoosier - and he was a CRUCIAL part of that team.
I look at how things truly transpire. Only someone like Crean could have the resources he had and screw it up to the extent he did.
"Less with more" ....
He's a decent recruiter, but doesn't know how to build a roster, so his recruiting goes to waste.
And, a decent trainer that has no in game situational awareness, so his preparation and training go to waste.
What he needed was a boss (head coach) to show him how to build rosters and manage a game because he certainly couldn't.
Assistant coach is obviously his level cap. He just doesn't have the talent to be a head coach at this level. He was totally reliant on his players succeeding, in spite of his coaching.
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