No, just get the other sports out of the North Endzone and spend the money for a beautiful locker room, lounge, and training area for the football team.
Recruiting Progress
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No, just get the other sports out of the North Endzone and spend the money for a beautiful locker room, lounge, and training area for the football team.
They might disagree, but they would be wrong. PU is still way behind from a stadium standpoint but not development center from a training standpoint (no center of excellence) NW both.
Football facilities wise, both NU and Purdue have moved ahead of IU, by some distance.
Logic and argumentation clearly aren't your strong suits. That's not what I said at all. What I was suggesting is that you probably should read an article in its entirety before you use it as authority for a point you're trying to make. I cited a portion of the article that calls your whole argument into question.
What I said was, in light of the pretty good class (one of IU's best ever) we signed after what was a disappointing season from a W/L perspective, I would anticipate big things in recruiting on the heels of a successful season this fall. We already have everything we need, from a facilities and coaching standpoint, to compete and win. The missing piece is a winning season. If it happens this year, recruiting will ramp up dramatically.
And I think you missed the broad theme of the article, which is that football only facilities are on the increase. IU had the chance to go football only in the SEZ and decided against such a bold move. Unfortunately, you and a few others continue to believe that IU can somehow achieve football success without making these kinds of extraordinary commitments to facilities and coaching, and that simply doing some of what their peers are doing will be enough.
Of course, we’ve seen it’s not enough to run at everyone else’s pace and expect to win the race when IU started well behind the rest of the field. Success and failure leave clues, and the clues IU continues to leave are highly likely to keep them at the bottom of the conference. Both IU and High school coaches, as well as recruits talked about IU lagging behind during camp season. Not sure why you think ignoring that makes sense.
I linked it in the basketball board a few months ago. You'll have to find it.
the weight room, locker room, player lounge, construction industry is remarkably well represented on this board.
And I have little doubt that you'd rather be right about this opinion (and that's all it is) than see IU achieve a breakthrough season. For whatever reason, you harbor animosity toward IU, accompanied by a bizarre obsession with spending most of your waking hours on a fan message board in order to post consistently negative messages about the team.
Quite the opposite, actually. I’d like nothing more than to be wrong and somehow accept your notion that running close to race pace while several laps down will nonetheless result in competing for the win. I don’t know how that happens, even as many wishfully believe it will, in spite of the near and long term results. Somehow, some way, doing just enough will produce extraordinary results because we’re “due”. It’s a mindset that I think will produce the results it always has.
Instead, several of us have made the case that IU should run at a faster pace than their peers in an acknowledgement that they have considerable catching up to do, and that “just enough” will never be enough. They must do much more, in hiring, in facilities development. But those sentiments earn derision here, as do the high expectations that several of us have recently voiced. And yeah, I find that strange even as it makes the outcomes very predictable.
Just stop feeding him. We have all seen this mind-numbing act 36 times before.
For me, what seems to have gotten lost in this debate is any evidence whatsoever that recruits are choosing other schools over IU simply because football has to share a weight room with other athletes.
With all the things that factor into a kid's choice of school, I cannot believe that this matters even a tiny bit to 99.9% of the players we are recruiting. At the end of the day, if you have modern amenities similar to other programs I have to believe athletes are going to make their choice based on some other factor or factors. I don't believe for a second that we are losing recruits because they don't want to associate with anyone other than football players. If it does, the kid is coming for all the wrong reasons and probably is not going to help your program much anyway.
The kid who wants to be at IU for the total experience, and who wants to play for the coaches and with the players who are here, is the kid who is going to help build a winning program here. The other kind of kid - who needs the best shiny object he sees at the moment - by the kind of logic employed by some here would most likely transfer as soon as he found another program with something newer.
So forgive me for saying so, but I think the idea that we need a football-only weight room in order to attract quality recruits is a stupid and illogical argument. As for other schools using that as a negative recruiting tool, do you seriously think that most kids are really so dumb that they buy into that even though they may like every other aspect of IU ? My sense is that in the grand scheme of things, a football-only weight room has next to zero influence on a player choosing or not choosing to come here to play.
I wonder if the football only weight room schools are selling it as a much better way to build your body since you will not share it with dozens of other teams?? Meaning you will not have to wait to use certain machines because the baseball team is doing leg work.
Now that actually makes a little bit of sense. I'll bet this is the angle being presented.
Now that actually makes a little bit of sense. I'll bet this is the angle being presented.
What about bidets? We have to have those! And if Indiana puts in bidets before everyone else then the Hoosiers will have a decided recruiting advantage. And don’t use the grade CCC toilet paper that still has the wood chips in it.
Should IU have have had the same attitude with regard to constructing Cook Hall? There was adequate practice space in AH. Or what about the AH renovation? Or dorm, classroom, dining hall and other campus updates / renovations / expansions? They could get by with less on the theory that kids who really want to be at IU won’t care about such things.
The “why do we need that” crowd scoffed at the East side renovations, Mellancamp Pacillion, the NEZ. None were absolutely necessary, yet IU came to the same conclusion there that they did across the parking lot, at Kaufmann, at the pool and all over campus; if you want the best, brightest and most talented, you have to compete to get them. And in football, where IU has lagged forever, this is especially so. Doing “enough” will never be sufficient, in my opinion. They must commit to going above and beyond merely “enough” or accept that the results will never change.
Absolutely. I've yet to see any compelling evidence that this makes any real difference in school selection.
So why do the best football programs have the best facilities then? Fred said he wants the football program to achieve Iowa-like success. Well, Iowa has far superior football facilities. IU isn’t doing what is necessary to achieve the expectations they have set.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
You are so true... my bad.
that will not happen because of design of weight room. In essence the weightroom is split in half and is two identical weightrooms that are 12500 sq feet
You make valid points, certainly relationships with coaches , academics and how a player sees himself “fitting in” are most important factors. The point being missed is the “perception” about how we value football at IU.
I don’t think I have to tell anyone we are perceived as a basketball school, with our history that is hard to argue. That is one of the thoughts used against us, “all they care about is basketball”. Yes, the additions of the SEZ and the NEZ are great, but they don’t move us ahead of other schools, and they don’t change the view of us as basketball school especially since we built a 67,000 square foot basketball only facility (with a basketball only weight room). At minimum, we need to get all other sports out of the NEZ, that would be a start.
Against my better judgment to engage, but here goes ..... Go back and read my post. It clearly states "if you have modern amenities similar to other programs" ( I probably should have said "other successful programs" ). It's about return on investment and about whether the things you're spending on really do matter to recruits. I'm just not convinced that visiting athletes who see a great, state-of-the art weight room really choose to go elsewhere because that weight room is shared with other sports. I might be wrong, but I'm not buying it until I see it quoted by a potential recruit that he went elsewhere because he didn't want kids from other sports in the same weight facility.
I'm not part of the crowd that doesn't think nice things matter to recruits. I just don't believe that a football-only weight room is one of those things. It's a diminishing marginal returns issue. That money could be more effectively spent in other areas that matter much more to recruits.
As a guy who has spent the past 37 years around 18-year-old athletes, I'm going to say that sharing the weight room, training facilities, dining facilities, and academic support areas with other athletes (especially female athletes) is going to attract more kids than it's going to turn off. Besides that, if your academic mission is to broaden the horizons of your student athletes - the vast majority of whom will never play professionally - you are doing them a tremendous disservice by isolating their college experience to only those who also play football. If I'm recruiting to IU, I make that point emphatically. Especially to parents who may want their sons to have a college experience that goes beyond the football team.
Your gross generalization that a person must favor everything or nothing is a weak argument.
I'm sure that the "basketball school" argument is used against us all the time. I just don't think a separate weight room is going to negate that strategy. A full stadium and more winning is what will change that perception. I just don't think an exclusive weight room has any correlation to better recruiting or more winning.
Maybe not, but some HS coaches and recruits have said otherwise, again, it is about perception. I guess we could send the golf, cross country , volleyball teams etc over to Cook Hall to train, they probably wouldn’t mind. And how do we think our latest 5 star b-ball recruit would react to the golf team working out in Cook Hall when he is there on a official visit ? Perception
Our football players are not having to wait to use machines behind the swimming team. It’s not happening.
You may not think it but it is true and recruits, their parents, and HS coaches have noticed and commented on the lack of a football only facility. Again, the top programs have their own facility. Should IU not emulate the behavior of the best programs?
Please believe whatever you want, but coaches, in and outside the program, have expressed concern about IU’s commitment based on the facilities. If you’d rather ignore that, that’s fine. And I never made a “gross generalization that a person must favor everything or nothing . . .”. That statement simple isn’t true.
I'll believe that only when somebody shows me a quote of an athlete, parent or HS coach saying it directly. I don't believe for a minute that we lose recruits solely because we do not have a football-only weight room. Nor do I believe that building a football-only weight room will bring any recruit here that otherwise would sign elsewhere. I have to call BS on that notion.
I'm also really skeptical that building a football-only weight facility would help us close the gap an inch on those programs that are currently more successful. I think the value of such a facility is enormously overrated. If the weight room is impressive (and ours is), making it exclusive is of little or no value. It isn't like football players are waiting for the golf team and the field hockey team to finish lifting so they can get into the room.
There are ninety-nine reasons why we aren't 'Bama or O$U. Our weight room ain't one.
Except stadium!!!
You guys win my 30 years of dealing with high school kids and recruiting means nothing. My brothers 25 years of coaching and recruiting kids means nothing. And if we do truly have coaches inside the program complaining about the facilities makes me think it is excuse making and we will never be a winning football program.
And if you’re really as close to high school athletes as you claim, I think you’d understand how facilities are a meaningful part of their decision making and a distinction recognized not only by them, but also by their parents and coaches.
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Who is saying facilities aren't a meaningful part of a recruits decision? But if you're a recruit and all of the schools you're looking at have good facilities, I doubt you sit down and make your decision based on which of those good facilities is the best. At a certain point, once you've passed some quality threshold with your facilities, there's no way it has a serious effect on recruiting.
That’s the point that seems difficult for some here, this mistaken belief that IU is at or near common ground facilities-wise with their conference peers. They aren’t, especially with those programs above them on the food chain.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
Yea, sure.
Because the football team would have nothing to do with sports medicine and technology, life and leadership skills, career counseling for student-athletes, and a state-of-the-art nutrition center. The structure being on the south end zone of the stadium and holding up a bigger scoreboard does nothing for the stadium.
You might want to quit while you're behind.
No, you win. You have firsthand knowledge as well as credibility, something the other poster struggles with. Good news, though. I think the over/under for the number of days until he's banned again is six.
NU was still having double-digit win seasons when they had the absolute crappiest football facilities in the Big Ten....and even the MAC, probably.
We built Cook Hall. Boy, the results on the court have really been a great ROI on that one. DWS.
Facilities help, but they won’t erase decades of tradition.
Why do you think 5-star players line up to play at Duke? Is it because of the high school gym they play in?
No , they line up to play at Duke for the HOF coach and tradition, that is exactly the point. We don’t have any of that here in football. We cannot change that, but what we can change is the perception that we don’t care about football. We need to go above and beyond for football so some of those kids may decide to come here, based on many things , one of which being a supreme commitment to football.
Yet, even with their success and relatively small athletic budget, NU decided to make a bold move forward.
As for Cook Hall, the whispers about IU’s outdated basketball facilities started while Knight was still coaching, and he and the AD were largely dismissive even as recruits, parents and coaches began to notice, which is what is happening right now with IU football.
When your arguments fail, you seem to have a habit of turning to posts like these, with ironic references to a lack of credibility. Whatever makes you feel good, I guess.
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