Rank our roster?

[kkott]

Shamelessly stealing this idea from the Assembly Call episode posted this week, but I thought it was interesting; especially to see what people's expectations are for the freshmen and Tamar. Here's mine:

1 TJD
2 XJ
3 Race
4 Tamar
5 JHS (hoping by season's end, that's our starting lineup, although I expect CMW, with as loyal as he was to experienced guys last year to start Kopp at first)
6 Malik R
7 Miller Kopp (if he becomes the knock down shooter I expected, his value might rise if the guys above him aren't hitting 3s)
8 Galloway (not a stat stuffer but his energy and effort make us better)
9 Geronimo (no one has an opportunity to push themselves much higher, imo)
10 Banks (great reports so far, are there enough minutes to get him on the floor?)
11 Leal (good teammate and it won't surprise me to see him make plays critical to a win or 2 along the way, but I don't see many minutes for him)
12 LD (may see minutes w foul trouble or injury. Think his opp is next year)
13 Gunn (sounds like a bright future, but I usually don't expect much out of freshmen and he seems the most likely not to see much action to me, and still a bright future. Loaded team!)

I think most of their guys were similar. One guy had Trey at 3, which is hard for me to see given his injury and lack of scoring, but he does usually help us when on the floor)

 

[Battimi]

I think anything after that top 3 gets really hard to separate out. Especially 4-10. I could see that group constantly shuffling throughout the year.

 

[Coach Geez]

TJD
XJ
Race
JHS
Race
Miller
Reneau
Galloway
Tamar
Geronimo
Banks
Gunn
Leal
Duncomb

 

[Cavanagh]

Shamelessly stealing this idea from the Assembly Call episode posted this week, but I thought it was interesting; especially to see what people's expectations are for the freshmen and Tamar. Here's mine:

1 TJD
2 XJ
3 Race
4 Tamar
5 JHS (hoping by season's end, that's our starting lineup, although I expect CMW, with as loyal as he was to experienced guys last year to start Kopp at first)
6 Malik R
7 Miller Kopp (if he becomes the knock down shooter I expected, his value might rise if the guys above him aren't hitting 3s)
8 Galloway (not a stat stuffer but his energy and effort make us better)
9 Geronimo (no one has an opportunity to push themselves much higher, imo)
10 Banks (great reports so far, are there enough minutes to get him on the floor?)
11 Leal (good teammate and it won't surprise me to see him make plays critical to a win or 2 along the way, but I don't see many minutes for him)
12 LD (may see minutes w foul trouble or injury. Think his opp is next year)
13 Gunn (sounds like a bright future, but I usually don't expect much out of freshmen and he seems the most likely not to see much action to me, and still a bright future. Loaded team!)

I think most of their guys were similar. One guy had Trey at 3, which is hard for me to see given his injury and lack of scoring, but he does usually help us when on the floor)

I really like the coach T guy on AC. Seems like a genuinely good hearted dude.

 

[Cavanagh]

Tjd, X, Scoop, race, Malik, JHS, JG, Miller, Trey, banks, leal, duncomb, Gunn

 

[IUNorth]

Shamelessly stealing this idea from the Assembly Call episode posted this week, but I thought it was interesting; especially to see what people's expectations are for the freshmen and Tamar. Here's mine:

1 TJD
2 XJ
3 Race
4 Tamar
5 JHS (hoping by season's end, that's our starting lineup, although I expect CMW, with as loyal as he was to experienced guys last year to start Kopp at first)
6 Malik R
7 Miller Kopp (if he becomes the knock down shooter I expected, his value might rise if the guys above him aren't hitting 3s)
8 Galloway (not a stat stuffer but his energy and effort make us better)
9 Geronimo (no one has an opportunity to push themselves much higher, imo)
10 Banks (great reports so far, are there enough minutes to get him on the floor?)
11 Leal (good teammate and it won't surprise me to see him make plays critical to a win or 2 along the way, but I don't see many minutes for him)
12 LD (may see minutes w foul trouble or injury. Think his opp is next year)
13 Gunn (sounds like a bright future, but I usually don't expect much out of freshmen and he seems the most likely not to see much action to me, and still a bright future. Loaded team!)

I think most of their guys were similar. One guy had Trey at 3, which is hard for me to see given his injury and lack of scoring, but he does usually help us when on the floor)

What are we ranking for? Best player? Most important player? Here's mine for generally 'best player'...

1. TJD
2. Xavier
3. JHS
4. Race
5. Malik
6. Tamar
7. Kaleb (guessing, hoping here...)
8. Trey
9. Jordan
10. Miller
11. CJ
12. Anthony
13. Logan

Trey is an interesting one for me. It felt like he was poised to break out last year before his injuries. He'll always be limited by his shooting issues, but he can bring so many other good things...so if he's fully healthy, I could see him being higher.

Its probably all the summer workout reporting, but I just have a feeling Kaleb is going to surprise and be a regular rotation guy for us this year. He's got an OG Anunobe vibe for me. A little under the radar coming in, but it'll be evident from the first game that he was under valued.

And then I think JHS and Malik will both look like what 5 star kids usually look like coming in. They'll have some inconsistent moments, but both are built well physically, they've played a ton of high level ball already being from Montverde...

 

[.Gerdis]

Random thoughts, may not even be applicable to anything:

From watching decades of basketball it seems that it’s more typical for a player to make their big jump in their junior year versus sophomore. In fact, sophomore slumps are fairly common. Are we sleeping on certain kids like Leal and Galloway?

lots of posts here about who posters want to see play, and that’s all due to what they view as potential. To me that seems to be tied primarily to athleticism. In other words, Miller Kopp is a player that many view as being close to his ceiling, and we have seen what he can do, unless his shooting improves. On the flip side you have Bates. All potential. If I said Bates is the next Johnny Davis, or even called him a poor man’s Kobe, no one would blink an eye. If I said Kopp was a budding Garza I’d be told to put down the pipe.

Are we overhyping potential/ceiling based on athleticism? Steve Hart versus Joe Hillman anyone?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I think anything after that top 3 gets really hard to separate out. Especially 4-10. I could see that group constantly shuffling throughout the year.

I agree. From 4 on is TBD in my book.

 

[.Gerdis]

And my list
Tier 1
1. TJD
2. X
3. Race
4. JHS

Tier 2
5. Kopp
6. Bates
7. Galloway
8. Geronimo

tier 3-or lower
Everyone else

 

[Coach Geez]

Random thoughts, may not even be applicable to anything:

From watching decades of basketball it seems that it’s more typical for a player to make their big jump in their junior year versus sophomore. In fact, sophomore slumps are fairly common. Are we sleeping on certain kids like Leal and Galloway?

lots of posts here about who posters want to see play, and that’s all due to what they view as potential. To me that seems to be tied primarily to athleticism. In other words, Miller Kopp is a player that many view as being close to his ceiling, and we have seen what he can do, unless his shooting improves. On the flip side you have Bates. All potential. If I said Bates is the next Johnny Davis, or even called him a poor man’s Kobe, no one would blink an eye. If I said Kopp was a budding Garza I’d be told to put down the pipe.

Are we overhyping potential/ceiling based on athleticism? Steve Hart versus Joe Hillman anyone?

Yes. That and recruiting rankings out of high school. A lot of hype for a guy like Tamar Bates because he was a 5* once upon a time. He was ranked somewhere in the high 20's/low 30's coming into his freshman year. Had you told me he was ranked in the high 220's/low 230's I wouldn't have second guessed it. It's the same reason why so many advocated for more playing time out of Khristian Lander, he had the 5* tagged to him.

He's got potential, clearly, and played with some confidence early against lower level competition. But he needs to bring a whole level of different energy and consistency on both ends of the floor this year.

 

[IUNorth]

Random thoughts, may not even be applicable to anything:

From watching decades of basketball it seems that it’s more typical for a player to make their big jump in their junior year versus sophomore. In fact, sophomore slumps are fairly common. Are we sleeping on certain kids like Leal and Galloway?

lots of posts here about who posters want to see play, and that’s all due to what they view as potential. To me that seems to be tied primarily to athleticism. In other words, Miller Kopp is a player that many view as being close to his ceiling, and we have seen what he can do, unless his shooting improves. On the flip side you have Bates. All potential. If I said Bates is the next Johnny Davis, or even called him a poor man’s Kobe, no one would blink an eye. If I said Kopp was a budding Garza I’d be told to put down the pipe.

Are we overhyping potential/ceiling based on athleticism? Steve Hart versus Joe Hillman anyone?

I think the Sophomore slump is generally a thing of the past. Most of the kids coming in to a school like IU, have played A LOT of high level basketball either in HS or AAU, or both. There are a lot of Montverde type schools around now, and more and more kids are coming from those types of schools. Nothing fully prepares a kid for college ball...Tamar came from one of those schools, and largely wasn't ready last year. But overall, high level kids are seeking each other out at younger and younger ages. So they're more "ready" when they arrive on campus, from that earlier exposure to other top level kids. That's a general thing, and obviously doesn't apply to every kid. But I think the result of that has shown to be more sophomore breakout type seasons, than slumps. Think Vic Olidipo and OG Anunobe for IU. RJ Davis and Caleb Love for UNC are examples of higher end guys that struggled somewhat as frosh, and exploded as sophs...to give some Tamar Bates hope.

Heck, even Trey was poised for a breakout last year before his injury.

In this day and age...I think if you haven't shown it in your first 2 years...then I start having some questions on whether you ever will. Jordan would then come into question for us.

 

[B1G_Fan]

TJD
XJ
Race
JHS
Race
Miller
Reneau
Galloway
Tamar
Geronimo
Banks
Gunn
Leal
Duncomb

Mine would be the same except moving Galloway below Banks.

 

[kkott]

What are we ranking for? Best player? Most important player? Here's mine for generally 'best player'...

1. TJD
2. Xavier
3. JHS
4. Race
5. Malik
6. Tamar
7. Kaleb (guessing, hoping here...)
8. Trey
9. Jordan
10. Miller
11. CJ
12. Anthony
13. Logan

Trey is an interesting one for me. It felt like he was poised to break out last year before his injuries. He'll always be limited by his shooting issues, but he can bring so many other good things...so if he's fully healthy, I could see him being higher.

Its probably all the summer workout reporting, but I just have a feeling Kaleb is going to surprise and be a regular rotation guy for us this year. He's got an OG Anunobe vibe for me. A little under the radar coming in, but it'll be evident from the first game that he was under valued.

And then I think JHS and Malik will both look like what 5 star kids usually look like coming in. They'll have some inconsistent moments, but both are built well physically, they've played a ton of high level ball already being from Montverde...

the what are we ranking thing is hard. I believe they said "most invaluable". For me, I tried to look at the guys I had ranked higher and that might influence my next selection (ie. I might a wing higher, because 2 of my top 3 were post guys). It's all just for kicks anyway. We still have to fill up 3 more months of time before we really start the season, right?

 

[Cavanagh]

Yes. That and recruiting rankings out of high school. A lot of hype for a guy like Tamar Bates because he was a 5* once upon a time. He was ranked somewhere in the high 20's/low 30's coming into his freshman year. Had you told me he was ranked in the high 220's/low 230's I wouldn't have second guessed it. It's the same reason why so many advocated for more playing time out of Khristian Lander, he had the 5* tagged to him.

He's got potential, clearly, and played with some confidence early against lower level competition. But he needs to bring a whole level of different energy and consistency on both ends of the floor this year.

Different level of energy? He has the best energy on the team.

What do you expect out of Bates this year. Let's make a bet.

 

[Coach Geez]

Different level of energy? He has the best energy on the team.

What do you expect out of Bates this year. Let's make a bet.

No interest in making a bet with you.

Hope he can be a solid contributor on both ends of the floor for ~20 mpg. Guessing he averages somewhere around 6-7ppg and hope he can make open 3's.

 

[Cavanagh]

No interest in making a bet with you.

Hope he can be a solid contributor on both ends of the floor for ~20 mpg. Guessing he averages somewhere around 6-7ppg and hope he can make open 3's.

If your 9th man is getting 20 mins a game, damn we better average 4 OTs a game.

Lander and Tamar have 0 in common.

 

[Coach Geez]

If your 9th man is getting 20 mins a game, damn we better average 4 OTs a game.

Lander and Tamar have 0 in common.

Bulk of the scoring is going to come from our Big 3; TJD, X, and Race. Expect them to average between 40-45 ppg. Need 30-35 from the remaining 5-6 rotation players with the way IU is expected to defend. Can see this team easily having 5-6 guys all score between 5 and 7 next year, Bates included.

 

[Coach Geez]

If your 9th man is getting 20 mins a game, damn we better average 4 OTs a game.

Lander and Tamar have 0 in common.

I offered my minute distribution a few months ago

4-5
TJD: 31 minutes
Race: 25 minutes
Reneau: 20 minutes
Geronimo (at the 4): 4 minutes

1-3
Xavier: 30 minutes
JHS: 22 minutes
Kopp: 20 minutes
Bates: 17 minutes
Galloway: 16 minutes
Geronimo (at the 3): 15 minutes

 

[frikkenfrakken]

1. TJD

2-13, no idea. Cases can be made for why a bunch of dudes might get better or worse.

If Race significantly improves his jumper, he'd be #2. If XJ's weird release causes a prolonged shooting slump, he might be a bench guy by the end of the year.

You never know how freshmen will adapt. Except Eric Gordon. Got exactly what we expected from him.

I know, it's August, we need to talk about something.

 

[Cavanagh]

I offered my minute distribution a few months ago

4-5
TJD: 31 minutes
Race: 25 minutes
Reneau: 20 minutes
Geronimo (at the 4): 4 minutes

1-3
Xavier: 30 minutes
JHS: 22 minutes
Kopp: 20 minutes
Bates: 17 minutes
Galloway: 16 minutes
Geronimo (at the 3): 15 minutes

So you think the other 4, will literally get no mins?

 

[Coach Geez]

So you think the other 4, will literally get no mins?

This is the minute distribution I see come conference play. No I don’t see all 13 players getting regular run in conference play. I did post this back in June and I do think Kaleb Banks may earn his way into the rotation.

 

[MG80]

What are we ranking for? Best player? Most important player? Here's mine for generally 'best player'...

1. TJD
2. Xavier
3. JHS
4. Race
5. Malik
6. Tamar
7. Kaleb (guessing, hoping here...)
8. Trey
9. Jordan
10. Miller
11. CJ
12. Anthony
13. Logan

Trey is an interesting one for me. It felt like he was poised to break out last year before his injuries. He'll always be limited by his shooting issues, but he can bring so many other good things...so if he's fully healthy, I could see him being higher.

Its probably all the summer workout reporting, but I just have a feeling Kaleb is going to surprise and be a regular rotation guy for us this year. He's got an OG Anunobe vibe for me. A little under the radar coming in, but it'll be evident from the first game that he was under valued.

And then I think JHS and Malik will both look like what 5 star kids usually look like coming in. They'll have some inconsistent moments, but both are built well physically, they've played a ton of high level ball already being from Montverde...

Excellent take. Kaleb and Trey sound like real X factors that might help take us to the next level.

 

[Harry Hondo]

And my list
Tier 1
1. TJD
2. X
3. Race
4. JHS

Tier 2
5. Kopp
6. Bates
7. Galloway
8. Geronimo

tier 3-or lower
Everyone else

I find it interesting that everyone is ranking Geronimo so low, especially when you look at the last few games of the season and see how he had stretches where he looked like the best player on the floor. In the quick turnaround play-in (Dayton) game he had 15 pts. and those 3 put-back dunks late were crucial in closing it out. We don’t win that game without Jordan. It wouldn’t shock me to see him in that 6th man role.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I find it interesting that everyone is ranking Geronimo so low, especially when you look at the last few games of the season and see how he had stretches where he looked like the best player on the floor. In the quick turnaround play-in (Dayton) game he had 15 pts. and those 3 put-back dunks late were crucial in closing it out. We don’t win that game without Jordan. It wouldn’t shock me to see him in that 6th man role.

I doubt he’s sixth TBH. He’s not a 3 yet and the 4 spot is races to lose plus he’s got pressure from Malik. His development over the summer is a key part. I’m just not sure how he slots in yet. From the sound of things it’s been slow going. I’m still hoping he can be a 3. Like everyone else has said after the top 3 it’s kind of wide open. Going to be hard to nail down an 8-9 rotation.

 

[TomEric4756]

Many of you have regular and part time starters from last season as “second tier”

I think we see a lot of of players play a lot of minutes, of stifling defense and early offense.

 

[TR32]

TJD
Race
Xavier
JHS
Geronimo
Reneaux
Galloway
Kopp
Bates
Banks
Duncomb
Leal
Gunn

 

[ufo33]

JHS
TJD
Reneau
X
Bates
Galloway
Race
Geronimo
Gunn
Kopp
Duncomb
Banks
Childress
Leal