Racist talk.

[iuwclurker1]

I know exactly what white guilt is and if you Googled it you’d see that it’s a term used by the left and right. I’m using it the way someone from the left uses it. I think it fits. However, if it offends you enough to get bent out of shape over, I apologize. Ignore it. I know you’ve given that advice to those that take offense to the posts of others. Take your own advice. Just answer the question instead. I don’t recall you offering specifics just generalities about unfairness without solutions. I could have missed it.

For starters, Aloha, I'm not bent out of shape about anything, that's just one of your robotisms -- attack the sender. Maybe you're feeling defensive because I'm pointing out, not that you don't understand white guilt, but that you don't understand why white guilt has nothing to do with modern systemic racism or fixing it. As I said above, we can't discuss the topic of modern racism and how to deal with it until you understand that it has nothing to do with white guilt, which you haven't demonstrated you do. Re-read my first post, understand it, and I'm guessing you'll have plenty of your own ideas how to fix it.

Over to you.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

For starters, Aloha, I'm not bent out of shape about anything, that's just one of your robotisms -- attack the sender. Maybe you're feeling defensive because I'm pointing out, not that you don't understand white guilt, but that you don't understand why white guilt has nothing to do with modern systemic racism or fixing it. As I said above, we can't discuss the topic of modern racism and how to deal with it until you understand that it has nothing to do with white guilt, which you haven't demonstrated you do.

Over to you.

For someone not getting bent out of shape, you were doing a very good job of posting like you were.

I’ve gathered from your posts here that you believe you’re smarter than the rest of us. That only you can understand the deeper meanings of those things you post about. Like your pragmatism thing. Maybe the source of your touchy demeanor is that you secretly realize you’re not quite as smart as you pretend to be. Just a theory. If that offends you too, I apologize.

I guess you’re not going to answer the question. That’s OK with me.

 

[iuwclurker1]

For someone not getting bent out of shape, you were doing a very good job of posting like you were.

I’ve gathered from your posts here that you believe you’re smarter than the rest of us. That only you can understand the deeper meanings of those things you post about. Like your pragmatism thing. Maybe the source of your touchy demeanor is that you secretly realize you’re not quite as smart as you pretend to be. Just a theory. If that offends you too, I apologize.

I guess you’re not going to answer the question. That’s OK with me.

Is that you Bing? you're turning into the parrot Prince, Aloha.

Face it, Aloha, you're clueless about how to fix systemic racism. Read up on it.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Is that you Bing? you're turning into the parrot Prince, Aloha.

Face it, Aloha, you're clueless about how to fix systemic racism. Read up on it.

Yeah, I noticed you think you smarter than Bing, and Goat, and Ranger, and several other posters that disagree with you about Oprah. I found it very entertaining. However, if you recall, was on your side in that one - I think Oprah against someone like Kasich would be awesome. Of course that would require Trump to be primaries or otherwise out of the picture - so there is that problem.

I was hoping you’d tell us how to fix systemic racism since you have the answers, and I obviously don’t even understand it. I’m not sure how I tie my shoes, let alone converse with you.

 

[iuwclurker1]

Yeah, I noticed you think you smarter than Bing, and Goat, and Ranger, and several other posters that disagree with you about Oprah. I found it very entertaining. However, if you recall, was on your side in that one - I think Oprah against someone like Kasich would be awesome. Of course that would require Trump to be primaries or otherwise out of the picture - so there is that problem.

I was hoping you’d tell us how to fix systemic racism since you have the answers, and I obviously don’t even understand it. I’m not sure how I tie my shoes, let alone converse with you.

I'll have a civil discussion with any idiot, including you, but I'm smart enough to know that when someone inserts snark into a question, it's not a question. Are you?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I'll have a civil discussion with any idiot, including you, but I'm smart enough to know that when someone inserts snark into a question, it's not a question. Are you?

I ain’t real smart, but I’m detecting snarky, uncivil discussion.

I’ve long been an advocate of respectful conversation and I’ve not been living up to that lately. Kind of given up on it here, to be honest. However, I started the snark this time. Sorry about that.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Is that you Bing? you're turning into the parrot Prince, Aloha.

Face it, Aloha, you're clueless about how to fix systemic racism. Read up on it.

I did not reply in a snarky manner and have asked the question before, if the system is bent in my direction as a white male (and I do not completely buy that in 2018), how do you bend it back?

I hear all the time about how ignorant I am to minority issues because of my skin color and that some large percentage of where I have arrived in life is because of skin color so I am open to hearing what you think the answer is.

 

[iuwclurker1]

I ain’t real smart, but I’m detecting snarky, uncivil discussion.

I’ve long been an advocate of respectful conversation and I’ve not been living up to that lately. Kind of given up on it here, to be honest. However, I started the snark this time. Sorry about that.

I'm anything but perfect myself.

Thing is, Bing and this smart talk seems to be wanting me to apologize for my nuance. Oprah is a celebrity is un-nuanced in my book. Oprah is a celebrity and ... is nuanced. Goat and his 24/7 ideology cloaked as something scientific is too un-nuanced for my liking, but it drives him to say "wtf are you talking about" without any real response when I propose a pragmatic alternative to his cloud-nine liberal ideology. Un-Nuance City. Rock posts an elaborate and interesting analysis of how it's all the Republicans' fault. Well, I can see that that's part of it, but I've learned it takes two to tango. That doesn't make me smarter, just means I'm actually curious about real-world solutions and ideology is no answer in the realm of science.

I ain't apologizing for seeking nuance nohow, nowhen.

 

[37Hoosier]

I am perplexed. I know few who have these sentiments and they keep their opinions to themselves. They don't have the numbers to swing a precinct. How in the world is it good politics to be a racist? Is it good politics to claim racism at every turn? On CNN today the theme is anyone who is silent is racist. Dear god.

Could I offer that maybe on CNN the idea that anyone who witnesses racist behavior or actions and remains silent is an enabler of continued racism? & I agree. I once threw a young teenager out of our backyard pool for racist name calling, & the rest of the kids were happy about it....I called him out and said we don't tolerate that behavior or language at our house, and it and he were no longer welcome and to leave...which he did, quickly.

 

[iuwclurker1]

I did not reply in a snarky manner and have asked the question before, if the system is bent in my direction as a white male (and I do not completely buy that in 2018), how do you bend it back?

I hear all the time about how ignorant I am to minority issues because of my skin color and that some large percentage of where I have arrived in life is because of skin color so I am open to hearing what you think the answer is.

The problem is so insinuated into our laws, social systems and social fabric that there is no short answer. Rock has listed innumerable policy details regarding economic and related policies. I posted a while back about laws in New York (iirc) from post-WWII that put into property deeds that blacks could not purchase that property. Crappy schools, projects and food deserts in big cities, the list goes on and on. These are societal problems and, as Baldwin says in the above link, until we as a society decide to create a prosperous society from sea to shining sea, it won't happen.

I would go one step farther than Baldwin. Until we realize how much we're hurting ourselves by having weak links in our chain, we won't change. Too many powers-that-be seem to think America is a zero-sum game and they have too much to lose. The opposite is obviously true, the more we raise all of us, the better.

Also, finger-pointing is useless. The racist (or better: unfair, because it's unfair to poor whites and others as well) system is there not because any of us are putting it there so much as leaving it there. It's not that someone is racist for doing nothing, it's that they're obliviously hurting themselves and everyone else.

 

[Stuffshot]

The problem is so insinuated into our laws, social systems and social fabric that there is no short answer. Rock has listed innumerable policy details regarding economic and related policies. I posted a while back about laws in New York (iirc) from post-WWII that put into property deeds that blacks could not purchase that property. Crappy schools, projects and food deserts in big cities, the list goes on and on. These are societal problems and, as Baldwin says in the above link, until we as a society decide to create a prosperous society from sea to shining sea, it won't happen.

I would go one step farther than Baldwin. Until we realize how much we're hurting ourselves by having weak links in our chain, we won't change. Too many powers-that-be seem to think America is a zero-sum game and they have too much to lose. The opposite is obviously true, the more we raise all of us, the better.

Also, finger-pointing is useless. The racist (or better: unfair, because it's unfair to poor whites and others as well) system is there not because any of us are putting it there so much as leaving it there. It's not that someone is racist for doing nothing, it's that they're obliviously hurting themselves and everyone else.

I am pretty sure that property covenants you described as “laws in New York (iirc) from post-WWII that put into property deeds that blacks could not purchase that property” have been unenforceable for about 30-40 years by court precedent.

Maybe someone else knows for sure, but I think these are gone and I’m glad.

 

[iu_a_att]

I am pretty sure that property covenants you described as “laws in New York (iirc) from post-WWII that put into property deeds that blacks could not purchase that property” have been unenforceable for about 30-40 years by court precedent.

Maybe someone else knows for sure, but I think these are gone and I’m glad.

The laws may be gone but their impact persists to the present. There is strong evidence that the harmful effects persist and cause current inequity. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/upshot/how-redlinings-racist-effects-lasted-for-decades.html?_r=0
More on the legacy of systemic discrimination on the wealth of black families. https://www.epi.org/blog/the-racial...changed-out-of-the-materials-to-build-wealth/

The role of policy in creating and maintaining the racial wealth gap makes it clear just how difficult it will be to close the gap through the individual choices and behaviors of African-Americans. Educational attainment, the right occupation, and full-time employment are necessary, but not sufficient conditions for building wealth (and even equalizing these between races would be nothing short of miraculous). The typical black family with a head of household working full time has less wealth than the typical white family whose head of household is unemployed. This outcome holds for black families regardless of the time and money spent on educational upgrading.
​

I added the bold.