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Polls - - a week out

I honestly do not remember riots. I remember protests. I remember the “NOOOOOO!” screaming lady on Inauguration Day but no riots that day. The article linked here certainly didn’t describe violence like J6. You have something else, I’ll look at it. I don’t recall seeing election related violence similar to J6 after any other Presidential election in my adult lifetime.

I agree that no one should riot after any election.
What does it matter if it was like January 6? If Trump loses and Republicans take to the streets exactly like Democrats in 2017 (see below), would that be "mostly peaceful" or would that be MAGAs acting terrible again?








And after her loss Hillary Clinton to this day says Trump was illegitimate. So 2016 election violent protests in November, claims the election was stolen, Inauguration violent protests in January 2017, and the 2020 Floyd riots, where the idea of "mostly peaceful" riots entered the lexicon, all happened before Jan 6. Mostly peaceful riots can't be okay for Democrats and not okay for Republicans.
 
One of the constants of the last 44 years has been the democrats push for early voting using mail in ballots or in person as same day registrations and so on and so forth. This had lead to early voting becoming a greater % of the total electorate every year since I started watching in 1980 until perhaps 2024. The numbers are not in yet but it’s very very possible as many states are down by large numbers.

The last 44 years of increased early voting has taught us that the best way to maximize your vote is to push early voting. In fact early voting would much lower then year if the GOP had started pushing and pushing it hard. We have seen that in Georgia which is one of the few states that will stop 2020 early vote numbers. Oh yes some Election Day voters have decided to move to an early day but it’s been stunning how many voters from rural Trump counties and strong suburban areas have been non-voters. In many strong Trump counties 25% of the early voters have been “non-‘voters”. One of the little talked about facts of the 2020 campaign is that urban turnout exceeded the rural turnout in many states. Pubs fought the turnout battle in 2020 with one hand behind their back in states like Georgia, MN, PA, WI and NC among others. This did not happen this year in Georgia as they are clearly bringing new voters while D turnout in lagging. The number of AA voters are down from 2020 even as overall turnout is up. You can see similar lower turnout in lower voting in Richmond, Miami, medium AA cities in Georgia, AA population centers in NC, Milwaukee, Memphis, Detroit as well as Las Vegas and elsewhere. Younger voters are down. On the other the GOP added 25,000 new voters in Nevada, 40,000 in the last few months in NC, at least that much in Pennsylvania. In Arizona over the last three months the GOP has netted 47,000 more new voter registrants than the Ds have. Of course other states don’t us party registrations but what would make them different as far as like make voters stepping to vote R? Turnout is down in D areas during early voting in a lot of states while either GOP numbers are up or we are seeing relative improvement to their 2020 numbers. Oh I thought in 2020 pushing early voting and getting to the polls did not matter but it does
Many Dems are Covid lunatics. Those who voted early by mail etc last time may show up on Election Day now
 
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What does it matter if it was like January 6? If Trump loses and Republicans take to the streets exactly like Democrats in 2017 (see below), would that be "mostly peaceful" or would that be MAGAs acting terrible again?








And after her loss Hillary Clinton to this day says Trump was illegitimate. So 2016 election violent protests in November, claims the election was stolen, Inauguration violent protests in January 2017, and the 2020 Floyd riots, where the idea of "mostly peaceful" riots entered the lexicon, all happened before Jan 6. Mostly peaceful riots can't be okay for Democrats and not okay for Republicans.
Riots aren’t OK ever. But the J6 riots were unique in that many in that mob truly wanted to change the results of the election by stopping the certification. Many testified to that in their trials.

Comparing Trump’s actions and HRC’s is false equivalency. She conceded (her concession speech specifically recognized Trump as President and urged supporting him) and she went to his inauguration. She never claimed voter fraud, she was butthurt about Comey and Russian interference. Trump never conceded, didn’t attend Biden’s inauguration, claimed voter fraud when none existed, made multiple efforts to change the results (he’ll almost certainly, and rightfully be found guilty if that trial happens) - and he’s planning to use the same playbook if he loses again. I despise HRC and did not vote for her, but her actions after her loss, despite her grumbling about it being unfair, are multiple times more honorable than Trump’s after his loss.

I’ve explained this multiple times before. I don’t intend to do it again. Everyone here has his/her vote set. No one can possibly change any minds here. We’re all stubborn as hell. 😎
 
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Seems like the Trump side has been more vocal lately about the polls not measuring correctly. I don't see that as a good sign for them.

To me it sure looks close, and Trump has the edge. Which is rather amazing to me. But if the women's vote exceeds poll models in either turnout or percentage, then she wins. And the Trump campaign complaining about polls... maybe it's going that way.

Two terrible choices for the country. Oh well, we'll survive it. Hopefully Republicans get their heads out of their asses for next time. The supreme court decision hurts them on abortion as an issue, because if one state goes wild with restrictions than it tars all states run by Republicans. To moderate voters anyway.
 
Nevada has been updated. It is also possible to see the turnout sheet for 2022.

So Election Day voting from 2020 went up from 160K to 215K in 2022. I know some GOP voters have shifted from Election Day voting to early voting in person (maybe a few to mail in ballots but I suspect not many) clearly we saw a trend for move Election Day votes in 2022. I am thinking 175K EDVs plus the balance of mail ballots gets us to 1.35 million. That would mean another 100K or so in mail ballots…I am not even sure about that number being that high.
 
Here's a good read on understanding that reported poll numbers are entirely dependent upon the pollster making correct assumptions about the demographics that actually turnout.

Even a small changes in the turnout models greatly change the outcome.

 
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Riots aren’t OK ever. But the J6 riots were unique in that many in that mob truly wanted to change the results of the election by stopping the certification. Many testified to that in their trials.

Comparing Trump’s actions and HRC’s is false equivalency. She conceded (her concession speech specifically recognized Trump as President and urged supporting him) and she went to his inauguration. She never claimed voter fraud, she was butthurt about Comey and Russian interference. Trump never conceded, didn’t attend Biden’s inauguration, claimed voter fraud when none existed, made multiple efforts to change the results (he’ll almost certainly, and rightfully be found guilty if that trial happens) - and he’s planning to use the same playbook if he loses again. I despise HRC and did not vote for her, but her actions after her loss, despite her grumbling about it being unfair, are multiple times more honorable than Trump’s after his loss.

I’ve explained this multiple times before. I don’t intend to do it again. Everyone here has his/her vote set. No one can possibly change any minds here. We’re all stubborn as hell. 😎
Oh, I am not trying to change your vote. I am just saying that it grinds my gears sometimes when there is (what I feel) is a double standard applied. Democrats have claimed a Supreme Court steal, voting machine fraud, illegitimacy and voted against allowing electors in the elections they have lost since I could vote.



And this anytime a Republican wins. I don't care if you vote for Trump or not and I am not defending the J6 people who got out of line but this stuff happens to one degree or another anytime a Republican wins and it is always., "shoulder shrug". Who could blame all those people mostly peacefully protesting for Trump for thinking that denying your guy lost and taking to the streets isn't the way things should be handled? They see it every time their candidate wins. If he should happen to win again this week I won't be surprised to once again learn that the Russians hoodwinked the country and that mostly peaceful protests must be done as the resistance rises to fight for our Democracy.
 
Those polls are irrelevant. The actual selection committee release their first rankings on Tuesday evening.
Agree. Still feel like they'll try and find a reason to leave us out.

I'm not sure if margin of victory plays into it, but we are wrecking teams.
 
You love Halperin. Well he just had a special live show with her, where she explained his methodology. He knows her well, and says she is one of the best pollsters around. Gingritch and Podhoretz both questioned her as well, and weren't really able to puncture her results, although both tried...

Continuing to post these unknown idiots from twitter who have no understanding of polling trying to discredit AS makes you look petty and stupid. They're all just repeating nonsense other nitwits have posted...

Here's the thing...If people didn't think she was very good at her job, then the Right wouldn't be whining about whatever nonsense they're whining about. And she's been in this spot before when she showed Trump up in 2016, when Iowa had gone for Obama in 2012. Also in 2008 when just 4 yrs after Bush won Iowa by nearly 20 points her poll showed Obama leading by around .7 and he ended up winning by .9

.
 
You love Halperin. Well he just had a special live show with her, where she explained his methodology. He knows her well, and says she is one of the best pollsters around. Gingritch and Podhoretz both questioned her as well, and weren't really able to puncture her results, although both tried...

Continuing to post these unknown idiots from twitter who have no understanding of polling trying to discredit AS makes you look petty and stupid. They're all just repeating nonsense other nitwits have posted...

Here's the thing...If people didn't think she was very good at her job, then the Right wouldn't be whining about whatever nonsense they're whining about. And she's been in this spot before when she showed Trump up in 2016, when Iowa had gone for Obama in 2012. Also in 2008 when just 4 yrs after Bush won Iowa by nearly 20 points her poll showed Obama leading by around .7 and he ended up winning by .9

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Kamala should deploy all her resources to Iowa the last few days, with an emphasis on reaching out to the Iowa Puerto Rican community.
 
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Shhhhhh. We must carry ourselves with the quiet confidence of a Tom Brady (MAGA supporter) until Tuesday. Your front running is really bad karma.
No one is taking anything for granted. Everyone is voting like their life depends on it. The Trump campaign is well prepared and has left no stone unturned. They've out worked the Harris camp by miles. They know.

 
No one is taking anything for granted. Everyone is voting like their life depends on it. The Trump campaign is well prepared and has left no stone unturned. They've out worked the Harris camp by miles. They know.

I think people recognize that our democracy is hanging on by a thread. All of those things that make America what is. The good guys know it and are coming out to vote for sanity: Donald. John. Trump.
 
Nevada has been updated. It is also possible to see the turnout sheet for 2022.

So Election Day voting from 2020 went up from 160K to 215K in 2022. I know some GOP voters have shifted from Election Day voting to early voting in person (maybe a few to mail in ballots but I suspect not many) clearly we saw a trend for move Election Day votes in 2022. I am thinking 175K EDVs plus the balance of mail ballots gets us to 1.35 million. That would mean another 100K or so in mail ballots…I am not even sure about that number being that high.
Do you read the Ralston Blog on Nevada?
 
It appears several things have changed in Nevada since 2020….not just party registration.

1st Early vote in person in 2020 was 578K and this year it’s roughly 543K…it’s down 35K
2nd Clearly the vote by mail is down. +690,548 in 2020 and it’s only 534K after some late evening additions from Clark county. The rural number is down 13K…Washoe is down from 146K to 99K. Clark 457K to currently 361K. Almost nothing came in to the rural counties on Saturday and their Mail Drop off has really decline. Washoe has been doing 5K a day. Not sure what Clark did on Saturday but clearly less then 20K and they are looking at just Monday/Tuesday and a few days after that mail.
3rd So a very quick estimate has 40 to 44K in rural votes on Election Day. Maybe 35 to 40K in Washoe. If Washoe cast 23K on Election Day. If those areas are doubling votes that means 109K or so for Clark
 
It is funny to me how people fight over polls. It isn't the science they present, it is the advocacy. It has to be "my side is winning". Seriously, on a page of 50 we have to push a polling narrative to enhance our team as if it wins the election.

I don't see why it matters so much. The polls are what they are. They are snapshots of what the vote was at the moment the poll was taken. Advocacy through polling just sounds like a plea for help.

How do we know it is advocacy, note the people who post every favorable poll to their team and ONLY favorable polls to their team.
 
It is funny to me how people fight over polls. It isn't the science they present, it is the advocacy. It has to be "my side is winning". Seriously, on a page of 50 we have to push a polling narrative to enhance our team as if it wins the election.

I don't see why it matters so much. The polls are what they are. They are snapshots of what the vote was at the moment the poll was taken. Advocacy through polling just sounds like a plea for help.

How do we know it is advocacy, note the people who post every favorable poll to their team and ONLY favorable polls to their team.
Oh but it makes it so good. It’s a polling death match between bowl/cosmic Dbm/Bailey.
 
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Lol... What a clown response. Not unexpected from you.
Sorry to see Selzer so far off. Her work is now without any respectability. I presume she got a LOT of reward. Emmerson College - a highly respected polling operation also, simultaneously to the DesMoines Register Poll, has Trump up 9 points in Iowa. Anyone think they are both right? Anyone think there's a 12 point swing 96 hours from election day?? Its either a terrible outlier or a poll being used as an election tool. In either case, its WAY WAY off and has cost her a lifetime of respect.
 
Sorry to see Selzer so far off. Her work is now without any respectability. I presume she got a LOT of reward. Emmerson College - a highly respected polling operation also, simultaneously to the DesMoines Register Poll, has Trump up 9 points in Iowa. Anyone think they are both right? Anyone think there's a 12 point swing 96 hours from election day?? Its either a terrible outlier or a poll being used as an election tool. In either case, its WAY WAY off and has cost her a lifetime of respect.
Why would someone who has so long been respected just go off the map here? The lazy answer is money, but she’s been doing this forever. If she wanted a payoff for a poll number she could have gotten it anytime. I don’t know what to make of it, but it is very odd. Plus, we will get the answer tomorrow. What is value in putting out your product that can be crushed in real time?
 
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Sorry to see Selzer so far off. Her work is now without any respectability. I presume she got a LOT of reward. Emmerson College - a highly respected polling operation also, simultaneously to the DesMoines Register Poll, has Trump up 9 points in Iowa. Anyone think they are both right? Anyone think there's a 12 point swing 96 hours from election day?? It’s either a terrible outlier or a poll being used as an election tool. In either case, it’s WAY WAY off and has cost her a lifetime of respect.
She has a great track record. What if she’s right?
 
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She has a great track record. What if she’s right?
My guess this is going to be much closer in Iowa that previously thought. Brother-in-law and sister live outside Iowa city. He reminded me from Des Moines to the east is heavily college educated and the Harris support is strong.
 
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@dbmhoosier AKA THE 🐐!!!! What are we hearing this morning son. Pose. Daughtry. Do know if he has classes today?
We're a lot more confident today than we ever were in 2016 and 2020.

And if you want to talk polling the absolute best polls are the ones the big tech guys have. You think Bezos, a left Democrat, would've declined to endorse Harris and then ran that op ED in the WP saying no one trusts the media if he didn't think Trump would win? Trust me, he knows better than anyone. He has all the data on who is buying Trump gear vs who is buying Harris gear and has surely compared it to 2016 and 2020.

Elon has access to the best data and algorithms in the world. They will absolutely destroy him if Trump doesn't win. You really think he'd stick his neck out like this if he wasn't very confident?
 
We're a lot more confident today than we ever were in 2016 and 2020.

And if you want to talk polling the absolute best polls are the ones the big tech guys have. You think Bezos, a left Democrat, would've declined to endorse Harris and then ran that op ED in the WP saying no one trusts the media if he didn't think Trump would win? Trust me, he knows better than anyone. He has all the data on who is buying Trump gear vs who is buying Harris gear and has surely compared it to 2016 and 2020.

Elon has access to the best data and algorithms in the world. They will absolutely destroy him if Trump doesn't win. You really think he'd stick his neck out like this if he wasn't very confident?
This is why you’re the 🐐!!!!!
 
Why would someone who has so long been respected just go off the map here? The lazy answer is money, but she’s been doing this forever. If she wanted a payoff for a poll number she could have gotten it anytime. I don’t know what to make of it, but it is very odd. Plus, we will get the answer tomorrow. What is value in putting out your product that can be crushed in real time?
The difference is that Selzer goes with the data she's presented with, while other pollsters add their own perceptions if the data contradicts their pre-conceived expecations. So she doesn't look at that data and worry that certain groups are over or misrepresented by what she sees in the data. That's why her polls are frequently outliers (Obama +7 in 2012, Trump + 8 in 2016, and now Harris +3 in 2024)...

The key element in her Iowa numbers to me, are the older 65 females, which are likely traditional GOP voters. Because the midwest has fewef POC in the electorate, if this gender gap persists in WI,MI and PA it indicates problems for Trump.
 
We're a lot more confident today than we ever were in 2016 and 2020.

And if you want to talk polling the absolute best polls are the ones the big tech guys have. You think Bezos, a left Democrat, would've declined to endorse Harris and then ran that op ED in the WP saying no one trusts the media if he didn't think Trump would win? Trust me, he knows better than anyone. He has all the data on who is buying Trump gear vs who is buying Harris gear and has surely compared it to 2016 and 2020.

Elon has access to the best data and algorithms in the world. They will absolutely destroy him if Trump doesn't win. You really think he'd stick his neck out like this if he wasn't very confident?
Dbm who is your go to on game day? Bill Hemmer over at America’s newsroom?!!!!!
 
Nevada has been updated. It is also possible to see the turnout sheet for 2022.

So Election Day voting from 2020 went up from 160K to 215K in 2022. I know some GOP voters have shifted from Election Day voting to early voting in person (maybe a few to mail in ballots but I suspect not many) clearly we saw a trend for move Election Day votes in 2022. I am thinking 175K EDVs plus the balance of mail ballots gets us to 1.35 million. That would mean another 100K or so in mail ballots…I am not even sure about that number being that high.
The GOP is basing the idea that Dems won't vote on election day on 2020 results, but that's a dubious proposition. Before 2020 it was GOP voters who voted early, esp in the southern battlegrounds of AZ and NV. That changed in 2020, but a huge part of that was Dems were a lot more Covid conscious and simply preferred to avoid huge crowds.

Most Dem analysts I follow believe there are 2 factors not being addressed, First off they expected a larger increase in GOP participation, based on traditional patterns and a push for early voting among GOP voters. and as a result Dems still have a lead in key states like PA. The GOP optimism comes from a belief that Dem ED vote will be down, but the fact is in a state like PA the early Dem vote only comprised around 13% of Dems who voted on ED in 2020.

That means the Dems have still been able to compile a lead,basically relying on a portion of those who voted early in 2020, as well as new voters. That means the ED vote for Dems in 2024 should be basically intact, and supplemented by new voters and 2020 early voters who shift to ED.That's where the dem GOTV efforts come into play...

By contrast the GOP early vote consists of 93% or so people who voted in 2020. 46% of the 2024 early GOP vote consisted of people who also voted early in 2020. But 47% of current GOP early voters voted on ED in 2020. So in order to maintain their 2020 ED advantage, the GOP is going to have to replace a significant portion who voted on ED in 2020 but chose to vote early this year.

I'd also point out that of the 46% of early vote GOP registered voters who voted by mail again this year, they are coming mainly from counties where Haley did well in the Primary. Also GOP registered voters who voted by mail in 2020 were more likely to vote for Biden than Trump. So among that 46% you're drawing from a pool of GOP registered voters who statistically did not actually vote for Trump 4 yrs ago...

So in a state like PA it's going to boil down to which analysts are correct on their assumption of what the ED vote will look like. Trump has placed an emphasis on attracting young (mainly white) men but that did not show up in the early GOP vote. They are already the most difficult demographic to turn out, and I sure wouldn't put any $$ on a nimrod like Charlie Kirk being able to drive them to the polls to stand in long lines on election day. Women (young and old) are not only showing up in the early numbers, but (based on voting) seem to be far more engaged.

And with the huge gender gap (even wider in PA) it's easy for me to see why my favorite analyst who knew the "red Wave" was non-existant in 2022,based on the same type of available data, continues to say that he'd rather be in the Harris campaign than the Trump campaign. Working in politics for 30 yrs and having a ground level view of the two campaigns, he feels better about the advatges Harris has compared to Trump. Doesn't mean he'll be right this time because he was right in 2022, but I have faith in his analysis...
 
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