Politico: Roe to be overturned per draft opinion

[TommyCracker]

Murder the baby and hit the beach. Yessir that’s exactly what women do. And you know desperate women can all certainly afford to hop on a plane. All this will do is lead to back alley abortions again and women will die. It won’t stop abortions .

One of the fallacies or biases that many, especially this board has is framing things through an upper middle class nuclear family.

During covid it was 'talk to your doctor and make the best decision'. Ummm there are multi millions who don't have/can't afford insurance much less has a 'doctor' that they talk to.

Those with the means will be able to fly to the nearest state or country but that's a small and shrinking group. Those without, and it's a huge amount of women, are the ones who will be most negatively impacted.

Bottom line, I've never viewed evangelicals as complex social problem solvers and that's the faction that is driving what looks to be the first stripping of individual freedom by the courts.

So it's probably going to be a shit show.

Cynically I'm going to laugh if Texas turns blue in 20 years because of a massive latino birthing boom.

 

[iuwclurker]

Holy smokes this thread sucks donkey balls.

Here's the short rundown for people who can't read all the crap:

1. This opinion is almost certainly a genuine draft.
2. The fact that it is labeled as an "opinion of the court" means that the original vote was in favor of Mississippi.
3. Alito thinks - or at least thought when he wrote this - that the nature of their discussions when voting suggested that a majority was in favor of explicitly overturning Roe and Casey.
4. We have no idea who leaked this, although obviously a clerk is most likely.
5. The motivation for leaking this is equally unclear. Since this case will likely be officially decided sometime in June, the idea that this is intended to drum up Democratic support for the midterms is silly.
6. Nothing is set in stone. The initial vote is not binding. No justice is required to sign off on any particular opinion. We won't know what the decision really is, and how the law is really changed, until it is published in a couple of months.
7. Everyone chill out.

8. Treating the issue of abortion as a simple political ping pong ball will never resolve the underlying complexities of the societal problem.

 

[TommyCracker]

You know there is a really, really simple way to avoid this being an issue don't you? Doctors have determined what causes pregnancy , you do know this right?

Forced vaccinations on every American male when they turn 12 and then only allow them to reverse it after they've established set means to raise a child?

Seems pretty invasive of the govt forcing you to alter your body though, but it would solve the unwanted pregnancy problem.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Insiders saying it looks like the Sotomayor camp likely behind the leak. Not surprised. She's a complete embarrassment.

 

[dbmhoosier]

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Insiders saying it looks like the Sotomayor camp likely behind the leak. Not surprised. She's a complete embarrassment.

“Insiders”.

 

[TommyCracker]

Yep. Psycho woke warriors with a totally inept administration that ruins everything they touch with virtue signaling bs. Right on cue let's swing the pendulum way too far the other direction and torpedo all the nov momentum. Couple this with Trump out there stumpin and who knows what'll happen in Nov now. Ugh

Hope I'm not on the receiving end of your rants too many times but, you do crack me up with your very descriptive vocabulary when you go 100% unfiltered and let it fly.

Sometimes you just gotta respect a player's game.

 

[TommyCracker]

Abortion as a divisive issue is almost singularly responsible for republican successes over the last 40+ years.

There's actually a political theory that ponders if the evangelical vote might soften and break off a nibble if Roe v Wade is overturned in an 'abortion is off the table now so what candidates speak most for you' kind of way.

I don't believe abortion will ever be off the table but, that is a political what if that has been pondered for decades.

 

[dbmhoosier]

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

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We’ll get a letter signed by 50 of them blaming the Russians.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

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Even if accurate, he did not say "only explanation" just "most likely". We can't wait on an investigation for some reason.

 

[ribbont]

If a woman is too drunk to give consent, then yes.

I am not saying rapes don't happen. I am not saying guys don't try to gets girls drunk for sex. I know it happens and would love to see it stop. But 100% of the abortions are not because of this situation. Less than 3% are and if you double that for the unreported ones, 94% are for reasons, the top 3 being not the right time, financial, and lack of partner support.

 

[ribbont]

Oh more good stuff. You guys love the hyperbole, don’t you? Love sucking brains out of babies!!!

Apparently you missed BCC's hyperbole of Christian Taliban. But tell me, do they not suck the brains out of babies?

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Makes you kind of wonder doesn't it? Not that Dems would ever do anything like that on purpose

After the crap the gop have pulled (especially with the Supreme court), all is open game.

When gop has pulled off the gloves, can't complain when dems do.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Cynically I'm going to laugh if Texas turns blue in 20 years because of a massive latino birthing boom.

Boy could you be in for a shock. You might want to check Latino attitudes lately.

A few points, the Mississippi law that eventually made it up to the Supreme Court and is (possibly) leading to the overturning of Roe and Casey was not seeking to ban abortion. The law was seeking to restrict abortions. Roe was shitty law forced on us with shitty logic without the people's representatives having the ability to debate the same. It never would have passed the legislative branch at the time it was decided. Casey doubled down and made it so that there was no ability to have any restrictions which is the position of the left. Which makes them out of step with the majority of the rest of the world.

Roe should be overturned and we should have the debate. This is merely a reset back to where this all should have started anyway. If the Democrats think that there should be no restriction abortion, make the case through legislation. I think abortion should be banned in almost all but the most rare of circumstances. I don't believe that my position could get through...now. So my expectation is going to be that the starting ante on the right will be limiting it to a timeframe that is less than 20 weeks in most states.

Going back to Latinos:





You might want to take a look at Latinos in those poll results. The woman up above is the front runner to take a Democrat held seat that has always gone that way.

This issue may motivate the AWFL part of the Democrat party along with some of the black voters who already do not vote for the GOP. However, I think many of you are making an assumption, as Greenwald points out, that the party speaks for minorities. W.r.t. Latino voters, that does not necessarily appear to be the case. As a racial group, they are turning into some of the most committed GOP voters in the country.

So let's overturn Roe and Casey and then let's start having the debate on this we should have had nearly 50 years ago. I am a pragmatic "loony" on this. I am not going to get what I want, but what I should be able to get is the first walk back on this policy in 5 decades that will shift the conversation. We'll see where things go from there.

Edit: for some reason the tweets are not pulling through, I was able to access them by clicking the links though.

 

[ribbont]

Hey guess what? Men can too. And if they did, women wouldn’t need abortions. Novel idea, eh? Or, get this, men could wear a condom!!! And then women wouldn’t need abortions. So just be more responsible and men won’t have to worry one bit about the results.

It's not fair but the woman has to bear the consequences of the act for 9 months and beyond.

It is her body, so it makes it her responsibility to makes sure she does not get pregnant. Don't rely on a guy to prevent it.

My son is allergic to tree nuts. It his responsibility to make sure he does not eat them. It is not everyone else's responsibility to prepare food with out it.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Boy could you be in for a shock. You might want to check Latino attitudes lately.

A few points, the Mississippi law that eventually made it up to the Supreme Court and is (possibly) leading to the overturning of Roe and Casey was not seeking to ban abortion. The law was seeking to restrict abortions. Roe was shitty law forced on us with shitty logic without the people's representatives having the ability to debate the same. It never would have passed the legislative branch at the time it was decided. Casey doubled down and made it so that there was no ability to have any restrictions which is the position of the left. Which makes them out of step with the majority of the rest of the world.

Roe should be overturned and we should have the debate. This is merely a reset back to where this all should have started anyway. If the Democrats think that there should be no restriction abortion, make the case through legislation. I think abortion should be banned in almost all but the most rare of circumstances. I don't believe that my position could get through...now. So my expectation is going to be that the starting ante on the right will be limiting it to a timeframe that is less than 20 weeks in most states.

Going back to Latinos:

View embedded media

View embedded media

You might want to take a look at Latinos in those poll results. The woman up above is the front runner to take a Democrat held seat that has always gone that way.

This issue may motivate the AWFL part of the Democrat party along with some of the black voters who already do not vote for the GOP. However, I think many of you are making an assumption, as Greenwald points out, that the party speaks for minorities. W.r.t. Latino voters, that does not necessarily appear to be the case. As a racial group, they are turning into some of the most committed GOP voters in the country.

So let's overturn Roe and Casey and then let's start having the debate on this we should have had nearly 50 years ago. I am a pragmatic "loony" on this. I am not going to get what I want, but what I should be able to get is the first walk back on this policy in 5 decades that will shift the conversation. We'll see where things go from there.

Edit: for some reason the tweets are not pulling through, I was able to access them by clicking the links though.

I hope you never complain about cosmic’s posts.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Per Mark in an earlier post, there seems to be more focus on the leak than the fact that the Supreme Court has already written up a decision before a case had even started.

I tend to stay out of the law threads because it's not my sphere of expertise but....is that normal?

Because that seems really f#$ked up.

If you want to talk about delegitimizing (is that even a word) the Supreme Court as just a biased, pre-decided political apparatus....this seems to me like pretty obvious example.

The leak just exposed the current court.

I could be wrong (but I don't think I am as it's illogical).

You should try to at least acquire a basic understanding of what’s going on before you comment.

 

[Univee2]

Oh it’s quite clear lawmakers could care less what people actually want. Well one party of lawmakers. For example, they could care less that 90% of the public is for more stringent background check for gun laws. They don’t care that a majority of people support a right to choice.

Couldn’t care less, teach.

 

[UncleMark]

Per Mark in an earlier post, there seems to be more focus on the leak than the fact that the Supreme Court has already written up a decision before a case had even started.

I tend to stay out of the law threads because it's not my sphere of expertise but....is that normal?

This case (Dobbs) was argued in December.

 

[mcmurtry66]

One of the fallacies or biases that many, especially this board has is framing things through an upper middle class nuclear family.

During covid it was 'talk to your doctor and make the best decision'. Ummm there are multi millions who don't have/can't afford insurance much less has a 'doctor' that they talk to.

Those with the means will be able to fly to the nearest state or country but that's a small and shrinking group. Those without, and it's a huge amount of women, are the ones who will be most negatively impacted.

Bottom line, I've never viewed evangelicals as complex social problem solvers and that's the faction that is driving what looks to be the first stripping of individual freedom by the courts.

So it's probably going to be a shit show.

Cynically I'm going to laugh if Texas turns blue in 20 years because of a massive latino birthing boom.

Lots of conservative Latinos. They don't vote as a group.

 

[Univee2]

Couldn’t care less. Not could care less.

Yeah, we get that ”alot.”

 

[jet812]

Oh it’s quite clear lawmakers could care less what people actually want. Well one party of lawmakers. For example, they could care less that 90% of the public is for more stringent background check for gun laws. They don’t care that a majority of people support a right to choice.

You’re the ones that don’t care about poor kids once they are born. Vote against every single possible solution and never even attempt to come up with one of your own. Pull yourself up from your bootstraps!

Speaking of hyperbole😂

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Honest question.. Do you think the last few conservative justices were selected by dark money groups? Just adding to the speculative conversation.

I don’t follow things close enough but they don’t seem to have a “dark money” vibe.

 

[Bill4411]

The court's nomination process has become to agenda oriented. An example: Biden wanted to put a black woman on the court. While the Republicans were all about overturning Roe. I just want the best and most capable jurists who will make well balanced thoughtful decisions. Is that too much to ask?

 

[snarlcakes]

I'm just sitting here eating popcorn and enjoying people freaking out 🤣

 

[Zeester]

Elections have consequences. The minority opinions of the land continue to gain power.

Maybe some of you Pubs can explain how this will lead to some good coming from rape or incest.

It just returns the power to the states. Don't be so dramatic.

 

[Lucy01]

After the crap the gop have pulled (especially with the Supreme court), all is open game.

When gop has pulled off the gloves, can't complain when dems do.

Like the Dems stealing the election!

 

[Zeester]

Honest question.. Do you think the last few conservative justices were selected by dark money groups? Just adding to the speculative conversation.

They were selected to interpret and follow the law and constitution.

 

[Zeester]

Gop stacking the court already did that

Facts please. Hardly the definition of stacking the court. Just a liberal talking point and rant.

 

[snarlcakes]

Boy could you be in for a shock. You might want to check Latino attitudes lately.

A few points, the Mississippi law that eventually made it up to the Supreme Court and is (possibly) leading to the overturning of Roe and Casey was not seeking to ban abortion. The law was seeking to restrict abortions. Roe was shitty law forced on us with shitty logic without the people's representatives having the ability to debate the same. It never would have passed the legislative branch at the time it was decided. Casey doubled down and made it so that there was no ability to have any restrictions which is the position of the left. Which makes them out of step with the majority of the rest of the world.

Roe should be overturned and we should have the debate. This is merely a reset back to where this all should have started anyway. If the Democrats think that there should be no restriction abortion, make the case through legislation. I think abortion should be banned in almost all but the most rare of circumstances. I don't believe that my position could get through...now. So my expectation is going to be that the starting ante on the right will be limiting it to a timeframe that is less than 20 weeks in most states.

Going back to Latinos:

View embedded media

View embedded media

You might want to take a look at Latinos in those poll results. The woman up above is the front runner to take a Democrat held seat that has always gone that way.

This issue may motivate the AWFL part of the Democrat party along with some of the black voters who already do not vote for the GOP. However, I think many of you are making an assumption, as Greenwald points out, that the party speaks for minorities. W.r.t. Latino voters, that does not necessarily appear to be the case. As a racial group, they are turning into some of the most committed GOP voters in the country.

So let's overturn Roe and Casey and then let's start having the debate on this we should have had nearly 50 years ago. I am a pragmatic "loony" on this. I am not going to get what I want, but what I should be able to get is the first walk back on this policy in 5 decades that will shift the conversation. We'll see where things go from there.

Edit: for some reason the tweets are not pulling through, I was able to access them by clicking the links though.

In 20 years latinos voting breakdown will be pretty close to evenly split between Republicans and Democrats (small edge for Ds). The notion that latinos were going to vote overwhelmingly for democrats forever, was/is a pipe dream.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Facts please. Hardly the definition of stacking the court. Just a liberal talking point and rant.

It is facts. Maybe you should take the time to read up on what transpired

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

After the crap the gop have pulled (especially with the Supreme court), all is open game.

When gop has pulled off the gloves, can't complain when dems do.

Who will you shoot first?

 

[IUclover]

Who will you shoot first?

I plan on looting some condoms and handing them out at mega churches.

 

[IUCrazy2]

In 20 years latinos voting breakdown will be pretty close to evenly split between Republicans and Democrats (small edge for Ds). The notion that latinos were going to vote overwhelmingly for democrats forever, was/is a pipe dream.

Accordjng to the polling I posted, they don't have a small edge for D's now, what leads you to believe they will have one in the future? The trend has been in the opposite direction.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Who will you shoot first?

Based on his posts here, probably himself, in the foot.

 

[BCCHoosier]

It just returns the power to the states. Don't be so dramatic.

Look at some of the legislation being proposed. Some Missouri Republicans want to make it illegal for a women that conceived a baby in that state to go out of state for an abortion. Also several states will test laws allowing lawsuits for a variety of reasons related to abortion.

You are naive if you don't think this is just the first step. I wouldn't be so sure the next step will be to outlaw abortion in all but the rarest if circumstances are the federal level if the Republicans gain enough seats.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Will Biden comment on this? He sure as hell shouldn’t.

Enough damage has already been done.

The more I read, the more I understand how disastrous this is for the court.

 

[sglowrider]

I just don't see how the country doesn't rip itself apart with the culture wars going on. The sides are too far apart to ever meet on common ground again.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Based on his posts here, probably himself, in the foot.

Lol I was starting to post that