Politico: Roe to be overturned per draft opinion

[larsIU]

Roe should be overturned and we should have the debate. This is merely a reset back to where this all should have started anyway. If the Democrats think that there should be no restriction abortion, make the case through legislation. I think abortion should be banned in almost all but the most rare of circumstances. I don't believe that my position could get through...now. So my expectation is going to be that the starting ante on the right will be limiting it to a timeframe that is less than 20 weeks in most states.

On some level I agree with you wrt coming to a legislative solution to the abortion issue. That would pretty much seal it's fate no?

However, if that debate plays out during the months of June - October I don't think it's one that helps the Rebpublicans in the midterms. Perhaps it will, but the prevailing sentiment these days is for abortion to be legal and unrestricted in at least the first trimester if not up to 20+ weeks.

If the vote in June is to overturn, Congress will immediately make abortion the #1, #2, and #3 item on the legislative agenda. The hearings will be public as will the vote. The Dems are stupidly safe on this issue. It's the Pubs that will be worried, especially in the ring/suburban counties.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

They were selected to interpret and follow the law and constitution.

They were selected because of their conservative interpretation of the laws

 

[Cortez88]

Great. Another reason for division and polarization. Should be awesome.

 

[IUCrazy2]

On some level I agree with you wrt coming to a legislative solution to the abortion issue. That would pretty much seal it's fate no?

However, if that debate plays out during the months of June - October I don't think it's one that helps the Rebpublicans in the midterms. Perhaps it will, but the prevailing sentiment these days is for abortion to be legal and unrestricted in at least the first trimester if not up to 20+ weeks.

If the vote in June is to overturn, Congress will immediately make abortion the #1, #2, and #3 item on the legislative agenda. The hearings will be public as will the vote. The Dems are stupidly safe on this issue. It's the Pubs that will be worried, especially in the ring/suburban counties.

The Democrats are not stupidly safe on this issue, if they were, there would not be the gnashing of teeth you see on this. Aloha called it up above, right now the Mississippi (deep red) position is that they can restrict abortion past 15 weeks. The Democrat position is no restrictions. Mississippi is closer to true public opinion then the leftist AWFL position.

All the GOP has to do is stick to that. It isn't banned, it is restricted. Good luck getting arguing for and getting it back to the position it is now where you can kill the baby right up to birth. That's an extreme position.

And while the Democrats are harping about the culture war, the GOP can just pivot and ask how many of you are getting abortions as opposed to those of you who have to buy gas and food.

 

[Cortez88]

The Democrats are not stupidly safe on this issue, if they were, there would not be the gnashing of teeth you see on this. Aloha called it up above, right now the Mississippi (deep red) position is that they can restrict abortion past 15 weeks. The Democrat position is no restrictions. Mississippi is closer to true public opinion then the leftist AWFL position.

All the GOP has to do is stick to that. It isn't banned, it is restricted. Good luck getting arguing for and getting it back to the position it is now where you can kill the baby right up to birth. That's an extreme position.

And while the Democrats are harping about the culture war, the GOP can just pivot and ask how many of you are getting abortions as opposed to those of you who have to buy gas and food.

Do you really believe that some red states won’t move to fully outlaw abortion?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

On some level I agree with you wrt coming to a legislative solution to the abortion issue. That would pretty much seal it's fate no?

However, if that debate plays out during the months of June - October I don't think it's one that helps the Rebpublicans in the midterms. Perhaps it will, but the prevailing sentiment these days is for abortion to be legal and unrestricted in at least the first trimester if not up to 20+ weeks.

If the vote in June is to overturn, Congress will immediately make abortion the #1, #2, and #3 item on the legislative agenda. The hearings will be public as will the vote. The Dems are stupidly safe on this issue. It's the Pubs that will be worried, especially in the ring/suburban counties.

Nah.

Any statue on abortion will eventually have to be ruled on by the Court. Multiple times. So making sure the Court is destroyed As a tool of democracy is what this is really about.

These people do not care about democracy. they care about getting their way by any means necessary. They want to be part of the junta, part of the Elite, Non-Deplorable Inner Dozen.

Faith? Ban it.
Family? Destroy the idea.
Hard work? Addictive them to government money.
Elections? Make them unreliable. Might makes right.
Safety? Defund the police.
Courts? Make them a tool.
Free speech? It’s a commodity.

These people have the “power sickness.” It’s their drug. And like any junkie, it’s “any means necessary.”

 

[IUCrazy2]

They were selected because of their conservative interpretation of the laws

Yeah, would have been better if they decided based on how they matched a color palette.

Do you really believe that some red states won’t move to fully outlaw abortion?

Eventually, probably. Right out of the gate, I doubt it. There will be a heavy restriction phase first. Then see where that goes.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I just don't see how the country doesn't rip itself apart with the culture wars going on. The sides are too far apart to ever meet on common ground again.

Not sure I'd go that far but agree how far apart we are as a country, or at least so it seems. Sad. And you see it on this board. Now there are posters I'm sure who have evaded capture from their nervous hospital nurses and others who would be denied voting rights if a simple civics exam was a prerequisite, but there are some smart people on both sides who have polar views on nearly every issue. And maybe it's always been this way and we've simply had a breakdown in manners and decorum that make things feel much worse. I don't know. Maybe we are exaggerating and none of this really matters to 98 percent of the pop and we're just in the group that finds it interesting.

 

[snarlcakes]

Accordjng to the polling I posted, they don't have a small edge for D's now, what leads you to believe they will have one in the future? The trend has been in the opposite direction.

I agree with you on the overall trend, but until it actually happens in Presidential elections, I think Democrats will have the voting edge.

Also, I think Democrats at some point this decade will shift their focus away from college white women, African Americans, LQBTQ coalition. and more towards latinos. This in turn will slow down some of the trend. The growing latino population numbers dictate that Democrats need to or they will start getting their a##es kicked each election.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The Democrats are not stupidly safe on this issue, if they were, there would not be the gnashing of teeth you see on this. Aloha called it up above, right now the Mississippi (deep red) position is that they can restrict abortion past 15 weeks. The Democrat position is no restrictions. Mississippi is closer to true public opinion then the leftist AWFL position.

All the GOP has to do is stick to that. It isn't banned, it is restricted. Good luck getting arguing for and getting it back to the position it is now where you can kill the baby right up to birth. That's an extreme position.

And while the Democrats are harping about the culture war, the GOP can just pivot and ask how many of you are getting abortions as opposed to those of you who have to buy gas and food.

Mississippi, and other states, has a law outlawing abortion when Roe is overturned. The horse will be out of the barn without any new votes

13 states have passed so-called 'trigger laws,' bans designed to go into effect if Roe v. Wade is overturned

Many Americans anxiously anticipating the Supreme Court's decision on Roe v. Wade may have been offered a glimpse of what's to come when Politico revealed a draft Supreme Court opinion Monday night that would upend the landmark abortion rights case.

www.google.com

 

[IUCrazy2]

I agree with you on the overall trend, but until it actually happens in Presidential elections, I think Democrats will have the voting edge.

Also, I think Democrats at some point this decade will shift their focus away from college white women, African Americans, LQBTQ coalition. and more towards latinos. This in turn will slow down some of the trend. The growing latino population numbers dictate that Democrats need to or they will start getting their a##es kicked each election.

If they do that, they will have to tack back to the center at the very least. I would consider that a win either way.

 

[snarlcakes]

I just don't see how the country doesn't rip itself apart with the culture wars going on. The sides are too far apart to ever meet on common ground again.

I'd say fighting a civil war is a lot farther apart than overturning Roe vs Wade 🤷‍♂️

 

[UncleMark]

Do you really believe that some red states won’t move to fully outlaw abortion?

Eventually, probably. Right out of the gate, I doubt it. There will be a heavy restriction phase first. Then see where that goes.

I believe there are 12 states with "trigger laws" on the books that outlaw abortion immediately if/when Roe is overturned. Can't get much quicker out of the gate than that.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I believe there are 12 states with "trigger laws" on the books that outlaw abortion immediately if/when Roe is overturned. Can't get much quicker out of the gate than that.

Road trip abortions. Inevitable

 

[IUCrazy2]

Mississippi, and other states, has a law outlawing abortion when Roe is overturned. The horse will be out of the barn without any new votes

13 states have passed so-called 'trigger laws,' bans designed to go into effect if Roe v. Wade is overturned

Many Americans anxiously anticipating the Supreme Court's decision on Roe v. Wade may have been offered a glimpse of what's to come when Politico revealed a draft Supreme Court opinion Monday night that would upend the landmark abortion rights case.

www.google.com

Oh well. That is where my hope is it goes anyway.

I would make them illegal except in very rare exceptions.

 

[twenty02]

Yeah, would have been better if they decided based on how they matched a color palette.

Eventually, probably. Right out of the gate, I doubt it. There will be a heavy restriction phase first. Then see where that goes.

You must not be aware of the trigger laws in place in many states......

Edit...nevermind....saw Marv already posted.

My guess is that something like 20 states will move to fully outlaw abortion within the first year.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I believe there are 12 states with "trigger laws" on the books that outlaw abortion immediately if/when Roe is overturned. Can't get much quicker out of the gate than that.

So be it.

The left never gives two shits about elections when they win a culture war battle, nor do I. They realize that for most people this will die down because the majority of the public pays no attention. I would rather the default be as restricted as possible and they can have fun over the next 50 years trying to make their case.

 

[Cortez88]

If they do that, they will have to tack back to the center at the very least. I would consider that a win either way.

Do you think the GOP should tack back to the middle? Do you want it to do so?

 

[twenty02]

My guess is this will end up forcing a lot of uncomfortable votes across the country for a lot of GOP members. It was easy to talk the talk for decades, knowing that it was all just a lot of talk. Now they are the dog who caught the car.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Do you think the GOP should tack back to the middle? Do you want it to do so?

The left has moved further left than the right over the past 30 years. We had a discussion about it several months back with support.

The right is already occupying the middle on a host of topics. Elon Musk donated to Obama, now he is a far righty. Russell Brand, far righty. Joe Rogan, supported Bernie and now is labeled a far righty. Glenn Greenwald.

I am mostly comfortable with where the "right" is.

 

[Cortez88]

The left has moved further left than the right over the past 30 years. We had a discussion about it several months back with support.

The right is already occupying the middle on a host of topics. Elon Musk donated to Obama, now he is a far righty. Russell Brand, far righty. Joe Rogan, supported Bernie and now is labeled a far righty. Glenn Greenwald.

I am mostly comfortable with where the "right" is.

Me thinks you aren’t acknowledging your inherent bias here.

 

[Sobchak_Security]

Majority of the land favors a right to choose, but as usual the far right wackos are now in charge.

You all do such a great job supporting kids right up until they're born. Then it's pull yourself up by your bootstraps time.

Carlin said it best….wish I could link the meme

 

[larsIU]

Faith? Ban it. Enforce it.
Family? Destroy the idea.As long as it's a man and woman.
Hard work? Addictive them to government money. As long as the help doesn't organize!
Elections? Make them unreliable. Might makes right. Or just refuse to accept them amirite?
Safety? Defund the police. More guns, more APCs in the streets!
Courts? Make them a tool. (Nah, I'll leave that one for some bothsiderism)
Free speech? It’s a commodity. Let's ban video games and music!

We could do this all day.

 

[larsIU]

The Democrats are not stupidly safe on this issue, if they were, there would not be the gnashing of teeth you see on this. Aloha called it up above, right now the Mississippi (deep red) position is that they can restrict abortion past 15 weeks. The Democrat position is no restrictions. Mississippi is closer to true public opinion then the leftist AWFL position.

All the GOP has to do is stick to that. It isn't banned, it is restricted. Good luck getting arguing for and getting it back to the position it is now where you can kill the baby right up to birth. That's an extreme position.

And while the Democrats are harping about the culture war, the GOP can just pivot and ask how many of you are getting abortions as opposed to those of you who have to buy gas and food.

Let's say the Dems get a legislative compromise to limit abortion to beyond 24 weeks only in cases of rape/incest/medical emergency and bring it to a vote.

Which side is going to be gutted by their constituency? Be honest.

 

[NPT]

In 20 years latinos voting breakdown will be pretty close to evenly split between Republicans and Democrats (small edge for Ds). The notion that latinos were going to vote overwhelmingly for democrats forever, was/is a pipe dream.

If they were to switch to solidly Republican Biden would be sending troops to the border to halt the influx.

 

[Cortez88]

We could do this all day.

I assumed that post was a joke.

 

[UncleMark]

I assumed that post was a joke.

You must be new around here.

 

[NPT]

They were selected because of their conservative interpretation of the laws

And we know the Democrats just select the best judge available and it has nothing to do with the judge's interpretation of the laws.

 

[BCCHoosier]

Road trip abortions. Inevitable

I'll try and find it later, but Missouri has a draft law that would even outlaw road trip abortions if the baby was conceived in that state. Not sure how you go about enforcing that, but you can bet red states will employee and and all means to outlaw access to abortion.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I'll try and find it later, but Missouri has a draft law that would even outlaw road trip abortions if the baby was conceived in that state. Not sure how you go about enforcing that, but you can bet red states will employee and and all means to outlaw access to abortion.

Missouri wants to stop out-of-state abortions. Other states could follow.

The first-of-its-kind proposal from Missouri lawmakers would allow private citizens to sue anyone who helps a Missouri resident have an abortion.

www.politico.com

 

[mcmurtry66]

Missouri wants to stop out-of-state abortions. Other states could follow.

The first-of-its-kind proposal from Missouri lawmakers would allow private citizens to sue anyone who helps a Missouri resident have an abortion.

www.politico.com

Yeah I can see all kinds of legal challenges on jurisdictional and countless other grounds as well as practical; good luck getting a Stl city, County, or kc jury to rule in your favor. Blah blah blah.

More interesting to me is how evil the parties have become. This is a perfect little microcosm. The cities are blue. The republicans here know the city dwellers don't want this. But no compromise. This too is virtue signaling. No different than most Missourians don't want Cori Bush calling to defund the police. But she doesn't care about compromise. It's her way or the highway.

What happened to compromise, meeting in the middle, and working together. What's so funny about peace love and understanding. The two party system is hijacked and broken

 

[Bowlmania]

My guess is this will end up forcing a lot of uncomfortable votes across the country for a lot of GOP members. It was easy to talk the talk for decades, knowing that it was all just a lot of talk. Now they are the dog who caught the car.

Good post.

Abortion was an effective "get out the vote" issue that GOP legislators could roll out every election season, with no real chance of significant legislative developments. That's all changed now.

It won't be life-changing, though, for the legislators - - including the devout, "family values," married ones - - who vote for abortion bans. When they knock up a girlfriend, off she'll go - - discreetly of course - - to New York or California.

 

[Cortez88]

Yeah I can see all kinds of legal challenges on jurisdictional and countless other grounds as well as practical; good luck getting a Stl city, County, or kc jury to rule in your favor. Blah blah blah.

More interesting to me is how evil the parties have become. This is a perfect little microcosm. The cities are blue. The republicans here know the city dwellers don't want this. But no compromise. This too is virtue signaling. No different than most Missourians don't want Cori Bush calling to defund the police. But she doesn't care about compromise. It's her way or the highway.

What happened to compromise, meeting in the middle, and working together. What's so funny about peace love and understanding. The two party system is hijacked and broken

You read this board. So many see everything as a “war”. A war that has a winner and loser. They don’t want compromise. They want what they want. Everyone else can piss off.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You read this board. So many see everything as a “war”. A war that has a winner and loser. They don’t want compromise. They want what they want. Everyone else can piss off.

For sure. It's sad

 

[IUCrazy2]

Me thinks you aren’t acknowledging your inherent bias here.

If you hate the culture wars, blame liberals - Kevin Drum

On Thursday I posted a series of charts that all documented a similar theme: Since roughly the year 2000, according to survey data, Democrats have moved significantly to the left on most hot button social issues while Republicans have moved only slightly right. This wasn't meant to be a rigorous...

jabberwocking.com

No, think I am spot on.

 

[Ohio Guy]

They were selected because of their conservative interpretation of the laws

This is of course true. Anyone who says they don't believe that is either lying or mind-numbingly naive.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Yeah I can see all kinds of legal challenges on jurisdictional and countless other grounds as well as practical; good luck getting a Stl city, County, or kc jury to rule in your favor. Blah blah blah.

More interesting to me is how evil the parties have become. This is a perfect little microcosm. The cities are blue. The republicans here know the city dwellers don't want this. But no compromise. This too is virtue signaling. No different than most Missourians don't want Cori Bush calling to defund the police. But she doesn't care about compromise. It's her way or the highway.

What happened to compromise, meeting in the middle, and working together. The two party system is hijacked and broken

Abortion is a rare problem. IF someone truly believes that abortion is murder, I don't see how they can compromise. I may disagree with them, but I don't see where they have room to compromise. On the other end are people who find it an absolute right like gun ownership and thus want no compromise any more than our NRA supporters here want compromise.

For me, viability makes a certain sense. If the child were born today, would it live? It is like the Terry Schiavo case was, if she could live without all the medical intervention then killing her would have been murder. But she couldn't thus it wasn't murder. But I'm willing to talk about other timeframes. But it is tough for those of us in the squishy middle because again, we aren't the ones that march, donate, and vote, on this issue.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

The country needs to be split up into 3 regional groupings for it to be functional again. West, Central and Eastern regions. Like an EU super-grouping.

It's already voting like that.

Has just outgrown its 50 state-federated system. It's all gridlock now. And with no accountability.
It is anachronistic.

Basically the power 5 conferences + the Big East., except the ACC goes away.

So....East Coast, Southeast, North Central, West Central & West Coast. You might have to divide up states like NC, Virginia, Texas & AZ.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

If you hate the culture wars, blame liberals - Kevin Drum

On Thursday I posted a series of charts that all documented a similar theme: Since roughly the year 2000, according to survey data, Democrats have moved significantly to the left on most hot button social issues while Republicans have moved only slightly right. This wasn't meant to be a rigorous...

jabberwocking.com

No, think I am spot on.

And there are counters to that:

The polarization in today’s Congress has roots that go back decades

On average, Democrats and Republicans are farther apart ideologically today than at any time in the past 50 years.

www.pewresearch.org

The problem is BOTH are dominated by the hardliners.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Yeah I can see all kinds of legal challenges on jurisdictional and countless other grounds as well as practical; good luck getting a Stl city, County, or kc jury to rule in your favor. Blah blah blah.

More interesting to me is how evil the parties have become. This is a perfect little microcosm. The cities are blue. The republicans here know the city dwellers don't want this. But no compromise. This too is virtue signaling. No different than most Missourians don't want Cori Bush calling to defund the police. But she doesn't care about compromise. It's her way or the highway.

What happened to compromise, meeting in the middle, and working together. What's so funny about peace love and understanding. The two party system is hijacked and broken

Compromise like the left has done with schools? Compromise like they did with COVID and even being able to have a discussion? Nah, the time for compromise has ended for the time being. The left has not faced one real setback in the battle over culture in my lifetime. They have done everything within their power to not compromise. Even now, leaking this is just another in a long line of transgressions.

I am not in a mood to compromise. If some states ban abortion, BFD, you can go somewhere else. Consider it the equivalent of paying to go to private school if you don't like it.