Politico: Roe to be overturned per draft opinion

[mushroomgod_1]

Abortion is a rare problem. IF someone truly believes that abortion is murder, I don't see how they can compromise. I may disagree with them, but I don't see where they have room to compromise. On the other end are people who find it an absolute right like gun ownership and thus want no compromise any more than our NRA supporters here want compromise.

For me, viability makes a certain sense. If the child were born today, would it live? It is like the Terry Schiavo case was, if she could live without all the medical intervention then killing her would have been murder. But she couldn't thus it wasn't murder. But I'm willing to talk about other timeframes. But it is tough for those of us in the squishy middle because again, we aren't the ones that march, donate, and vote, on this issue.

In their heart of hearts, I don't think many people truly equate abortion with murder. If they did, there would be much more anti-abortion violence.

On the other hand, I do believe most people view abortion as immoral. The best of Dems on this issue view it as a 'necessary evil'. Those without souls view the aborted fetus as just human tissue. Where are you on that scale Bulk?

 

[IUCrazy2]

Abortion is a rare problem. IF someone truly believes that abortion is murder, I don't see how they can compromise. I may disagree with them, but I don't see where they have room to compromise. On the other end are people who find it an absolute right like gun ownership and thus want no compromise any more than our NRA supporters here want compromise.

For me, viability makes a certain sense. If the child were born today, would it live? It is like the Terry Schiavo case was, if she could live without all the medical intervention then killing her would have been murder. But she couldn't thus it wasn't murder. But I'm willing to talk about other timeframes. But it is tough for those of us in the squishy middle because again, we aren't the ones that march, donate, and vote, on this issue.

With Roe and Casey we could not have the conversation you want to have. The Mississippi law that was challenged and ended up in the Supreme Court was doing EXACTLY what you describe. It was a compromise and it got challenged.

You can't get what you describe without Roe and Casey getting the axe.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Compromise like the left has done with schools? Compromise like they did with COVID and even being able to have a discussion? Nah, the time for compromise has ended for the time being. The left has not faced one real setback in the battle over culture in my lifetime. They have done everything within their power to not compromise. Even now, leaking this is just another in a long line of transgressions.

I am not in a mood to compromise. If some states ban abortion, BFD, you can go somewhere else. Consider it the equivalent of paying to go to private school if you don't like it.

I think you are earnest and I respect your position and those congruent with you on abortion. Read Marv's post 237. I think more of us relate to what he conveys and are kind of being hijacked.

With all of this there's a kind of dichotomy tho. There's law and there's virtue signaling. I think overturning Roe is legally probably the right thing to do. What we see in trying to create civil causes of action in states is different. That's virtue signaling. The latter is gross

 

[Marvin the Martian]

With Rowe and Casey we could not have the conversation you want to have. The Mississippi law that was challenged and ended up in the Supreme Court was doing EXACTLY what you describe. It was a compromise and it got challenged.

You can't get what you describe without Rowe and Casey getting the axe.

They could side with Mississippi AND not overturn Rowe. That is what they were asked to do.

 

[Bowlmania]

What happened to compromise, meeting in the middle, and working together. What's so funny about peace love and understanding. The two party system is hijacked and broken

So is your account. You can't be the same guy who was posting yesterday under this name.

Just kidding, guy. (But try meditation or deep breathing or something).

 

[mcmurtry66]

So is your account. You can't be the same guy who was posting yesterday under this name.

Just kidding, guy. (But try meditation or deep breathing or something).

Bitching at you has nothing to do with my mood. In many ways it elevates it

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Its just the maturing of a society/economy. You have lots of 'friends' as a kid but as you age you usually have fewer and fewer friends. Either you have become more discerning or you rather spend what little free time you have with people who you get along with or who have similar lifestyles, value systems etc.

For me the bigger issue to the gridlock and the lack of accountability.

Super large companies start to fall apart when they get too big. (I have worked in some which are 400,000 employees.)
Smaller ones are more nimble to react to changes. Its no different to countries.

I agree with your last couple of paragraphs. As a practical matter, one entity trying to govern 340M people semi-democratically isn't very practical. And any entity that large will grow too powerful and will abuse its power and lesson its accountability.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I think overturning Roe is legally probably the right thing to do. What we see in trying to create civil causes of action in states is different. That's virtue signaling. The latter is gross

I am worried about the idea that our only rights are enumerated. If Missouri wants to outlaw dancing, drinking coffee, or eyeglasses, they are perfectly allowed to do so because none of those are mentioned in the Constitution.

Our Founders worried about this, it was one of the reasons some didn't want a bill of rights. But in the end they decided no one was dumb enough to assume the bill of rights was all-inclusive.

 

[BCCHoosier]

Compromise like the left has done with schools? Compromise like they did with COVID and even being able to have a discussion? Nah, the time for compromise has ended for the time being. The left has not faced one real setback in the battle over culture in my lifetime. They have done everything within their power to not compromise. Even now, leaking this is just another in a long line of transgressions.

I am not in a mood to compromise. If some states ban abortion, BFD, you can go somewhere else. Consider it the equivalent of paying to go to private school if you don't like it.

Again, see the link the Marvin shared above. It won't be that simple in terms of just driving to another state.

I'm at work. Have they announced who leaked this?

 

[DANC]

Oh did you miss the fact that Mitch refused to vote on Obama’s pick?

So they didn't give their consent. Why do you hate the Constitution?

 

[DANC]

I'm sure there could be some statute they could apply, but I really don't think there's anything criminal about the leak.

No, the ciminality would be lying to the FBI if they don't admit to it.

 

[Lucy01]

Does anyone want to bet the leaker was a minority?

 

[DANC]

Oh it’s quite clear lawmakers could care less what people actually want. Well one party of lawmakers. For example, they could care less that 90% of the public is for more stringent background check for gun laws. They don’t care that a majority of people support a right to choice.

If a majority support the 'right to choice', then pass a law. Don't Democrats hold the majority now?

Or maybe win a state election, instead of relying on polls to make law. What a concept!

 

[DANC]

Oh more good stuff. You guys love the hyperbole, don’t you? Love sucking brains out of babies!!!

That's not hyperbole.

How about tearing off limbs? Is that better?

Maybe sticking a sharp object into the base of the skull?

What works for you?

 

[larsIU]

Does anyone want to bet the leaker was a minority?

Like, a man?

Guess that rules out ACB, KJB, Sotomayor, and Kagan.

 

[Indianaftw]

Does anyone want to bet the leaker was a minority?

Are you sure we can tell anymore? Do they identify as? Can they define a woman? :/

 

[DANC]

You’re the ones that don’t care about poor kids once they are born. Vote against every single possible solution and never even attempt to come up with one of your own. Pull yourself up from your bootstraps!

Sure, we hate poor kids. Your mantra is so old and full of shit.

Christians do more for "the poor" than government, but you insist on perpetuating the lie.

Your logic of killing children because they might grow up poor is ludicrous and disgusting.

 

[DANC]

Peaceful??? Bless your heart.

Yes, walking around, taking pictures..... that's pretty much the definition of peaceful.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Like, a man?

Guess that rules out ACB, KJB, Sotomayor, and Kagan.

Not so sure about that last one. Always reminded me of Jon lovitz

 

[mcmurtry66]

I am worried about the idea that our only rights are enumerated. If Missouri wants to outlaw dancing, drinking coffee, or eyeglasses, they are perfectly allowed to do so because none of those are mentioned in the Constitution.

Our Founders worried about this, it was one of the reasons some didn't want a bill of rights. But in the end they decided no one was dumb enough to assume the bill of rights was all-inclusive.

Exactly. That's the law. And the idea was always that if whatever was important enough to you you'd just move where more like-minded folks resided. but now that's becoming an untenable proposition with the crazy cost of housing etc. Not to hijack the thread but Fla is a perfect example. People like the politics there, some people, so they want to move there. That's becoming less realistic as new yorkers and rich people gobbled up the homes and far worse, companies, bought up the homes.

So it is an issue. people are going to be stuck living in places where they hate the politics because of economic constraints as opposed to simply inertia

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I think it’s highly likely that some clerk who is gung ho about abortion rights leaked this in order to put pressure on the court.

You don’t leak something like this in May to try and influence elections in November.

What do you think the ramifications of the leak are? Something like this has never happened before, has it? You’d think the effects will be huge.

The Leftists will treat it like the Dred Scott decision. They'll be so loony it will lose much of its potential negative effect. It will be an eye opener for normal people.

 

[larsIU]

Not so sure about that last one. Always reminded me of Jon lovitz

I was gonna throw in Kavanaugh b/c of all his crying during the confirmation but I figured piling on was overkill at this point.

 

[DANC]

I am worried about the idea that our only rights are enumerated. If Missouri wants to outlaw dancing, drinking coffee, or eyeglasses, they are perfectly allowed to do so because none of those are mentioned in the Constitution.

Our Founders worried about this, it was one of the reasons some didn't want a bill of rights. But in the end they decided no one was dumb enough to assume the bill of rights was all-inclusive.

The only "rights" I see in the Bill of Rights relate to trials. Everything else says what the government can't do or restricts actions.

As you said, states make their own law not enumerated in the Constitution.

In a nod to UncleMark, I'm no Constitutional expert, so I could be wrong.

 

[DANC]

I was gonna throw in Kavanaugh b/c of all his crying during the confirmation but I figured piling on was overkill at this point.

I wondered who would go there.....

 

[dbmhoosier]

This is not a big deal folks. The vast majority of women probably never have an abortion and those that do probably only do it once. Is it a big deal for us Hoosiers to drive to Illinois or Michigan to buy our weed every couple months? No. Driving out of state once in a lifetime to kill a baby isn't a big deal to the murderer either. They just lie and act like it is.

 

[DANC]

Exactly. That's the law. And the idea was always that if whatever was important enough to you you'd just move where more like-minded folks resided. but now that's becoming an untenable proposition with the crazy cost of housing etc. Not to hijack the thread but Fla is a perfect example. People like the politics there, some people, so they want to move there. That's becoming less realistic as new yorkers and rich people gobbled up the homes and far worse, companies, bought up the homes.

So it is an issue. people are going to be stuck living in places where they hate the politics because of economic constraints as opposed to simply inertia

But Florida isn't the only state with a conservative bent. Indiana is also very conservative - maybe moreso - and is less expensive.

People like Florida for no income tax but, again, there are other states without income taxes.

 

[mcmurtry66]

But Florida isn't the only state with a conservative bent. Indiana is also very conservative - maybe moreso - and is less expensive.

People like Florida for no income tax but, again, there are other states without income taxes.

No you're right. I just kind of meant moving in general is going to be harder moving forward

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

You mean Mitch outsmarted Obama?

I thought Obama was the master politician?

No. Mitch was a crooked little shit and didn't do his job. Nothing Obama could do about it regardless of smarts.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Yes, walking around, taking pictures..... that's pretty much the definition of peaceful.

What brand of camera are these guys using?

 

[mcmurtry66]

But Florida isn't the only state with a conservative bent. Indiana is also very conservative - maybe moreso - and is less expensive.

People like Florida for no income tax but, again, there are other states without income taxes.

You're a conservative guy. You like Roy cooper there?

 

[Univee2]

The only "rights" I see in the Bill of Rights relate to trials. Everything else says what the government can't do or restricts actions.

As you said, states make their own law not enumerated in the Constitution.

In a nod to UncleMark, I'm no Constitutional expert, so I could be wrong.

INCE, so ICBW, NTTAWWT, it’s not a BFD, OK?

 

[NOMORENIT]

Hey, look. I agree 100% that it was a BS hypocritical maneuver to try and do it both ways. McConnell is a scumbag of the highest order, but that wasn't creating seats out of thin air.

So it's court packing if we add Justices? It's been done over the years. 9 Justices is not a holy number. You had no problem when McConnell blocked Obamas pick that would changed the courts in favor of the Dem appointed justices. You then had no problem when ACB was appointed weeks before the election breaking the new precedent. If Mitch and Trump (Trump had no idea what was going on) can play with the courts numbers why can't the Dems? Just like McConnell blocking Obama's pick, adding a justice seems acceptable. It was legal for McConnell to block O's pick (although unethical) and it would be legal for Biden to add Justices.

 

[larsIU]

What brand of camera are these guys using?

Cannon, obvs

 

[larsIU]

Is it a big deal for us Hoosiers to drive to Illinois or Michigan to buy our weed every couple months?

Speak for yourself.

 

[snarlcakes]

No you're right. I just kind of meant moving in general is going to be harder moving forward

I disagree. Over time, when people figure out bitcoin, you will see money flow out of real estate and into bitcoin.

 

[outside shooter]

I guess ACB and Kavanaugh assuring people that "Roe is settled law" were lying through their teeth. Not surprising.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I disagree. Over time, when people figure out bitcoin, you will see money flow out of real estate and into bitcoin.

Too soon.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I disagree. Over time, when people figure out bitcoin, you will see money flow out of real estate and into bitcoin.

Are you a vending driver?

 

[Univee2]

So it's court packing if we add Justices? It's been done over the years. 9 Justices is not a holy number. You had no problem when McConnell blocked Obamas pick that would changed the courts in favor of the Dem appointed justices. You then had no problem when ACB was appointed weeks before the election breaking the new precedent. If Mitch and Trump (Trump had no idea what was going on) can play with the courts numbers why can't the Dems? Just like McConnell blocking Obama's pick, adding a justice seems acceptable. It was legal for McConnell to block O's pick (although unethical) and it would be legal for Biden to add Justices.

Cool. After every Administration change, with the right numbers in the Senate, we just add more Justices until we get our proper grouping. Looking forward to those 119-118 rulings.

 

[DANC]

INCE, so ICBW, NTTAWWT, it’s not a BFD, OK?

Damn you guys - I'm not hip to initials like you youngsters.