And that’s what we where waiting for. Vaccines don’t stop a virus completely. It only teaches the body to recognize it faster. 🤦🏻
OT - Since this Site Seems to Have a Hyperabundance of Medical/Constitutional Experts...
- Thread starter rikki-tikka-tava
- Start date
You lost me when you said Google. No I at least know where you stand on anything smart.
How many times do you need to hear that there are no long term side effects because the vaccine leaves your body in 72 hours? Any side effects would likely show up within days, but within a few months for certain. We’ve had millions of people all over the world to study this. Find it hard to believe any doctor would be trying to convince patients not to get vaccinated.
Oh I’m sorry. You don’t know how to google medical studies? Maybe someone can help you with that?
Two things to remember. One, these types of vaccines have been around and studied for a long time. It’s not a new technology. It’s why the FDA, probably the best meds regulator in the world, approved it faster than plenty of other meds. Two, this is a public health emergency. There is no ME in this fight. We are vaccinating to help ourselves, and more importantly, the greater community.
Your 1st point simply isn't anywhere close to accurate. I won't address it beyond that.
To your 2nd point, people who have been vaxxed are far less likely to get gravely ill, so why should those that question the vax and would rather wait for it to become more of a proven commodity, take it to protect the vaxxed who are unlikely to get seriously ill?
It makes people feel really good to say this isn't a me thing, but there is reasonable concern about the long term side effects of the vaccines. The vaxxed are unlikely to get seriously ill. Let's allow others to make their own choices. So you know, I have been vaxxed, but other good friends of mine have decided against them for now. I completely understand their positions.
So "rent free", eh? As your most cherished fantasy and favorite go-to, knew you'd get there just as you have as Ordfan, Kern County, IUDanapoint, Helen Dell, Bobsnotbucks, Ewezerfan, Prankster Mary, The Spa, I love Lucys, wysoc, Larrysmyname, Frederika James, Brink, et al. That's the problem with recycling - always the SOS, including you imagining that anyone is fooled.
What sad desperate creature makes a poor version of Groundhog Day a career choice? Only you.
Because most of the ill stuffing the hospital beds are a bunch of doofus anti-Vaxers. If we just ran around with no vaccine you would have triage units in schools and church’s. It’s far less likely you get long term effects from a vaccine than an all out reaction from the virus itself. Just dumb logic and information on your part. Good grief.
Are you still saying I’m Ordy? Ok, you can still be wrong if ya want.
Didn’t you say you were going to put me on ignore? You clearly haven’t done that yet. You lied. Because you’ve established yourself as a liar, nothing you say has any credibility anymore.
Peace my man
Speaking of shutting shit down, I sure wish we could eliminate the kind of mentality you’re demonstrating here from society completely. I’m so sick of hearing people, including members of the media, beg for censorship. People could say they’re not getting the vaccine because it’s an Illuminati plot to turn them into reptilians for all I care. You would want it shut down because it’s “misinformation”. Well no shit, Sherlock. Most of us are smart enough to see that, and the ones that aren’t deserve what’s coming to them. Just stop trying to control people.
Sadly, you over estimate people. If you just read this thread you’ll realize people actually aren’t smart enough to see that.
Snarky, vapid, and meaningless response from you as expected. You and T.M.P. have a knack for that.
My god man, you surely don't believe you have a 1 in 60 chance of dying of covid every time you leave home do you? If that were the case most of the state would've already expired!Wow, I thought these nut jobs were nowhere near the basketball boards. It seems everywhere I look I see vocal idiots posting false information.
If you read the survey methods of the AAPS (reporting 60% vaccination rates among physicians), you realize the terrible skewing of results. The AMA study done with random sampling is a far more accurate statement of the medical position on vaccination. The AMA reports a 96% vaccination rate, with 45% of those not yet vaccinated planning to get the vaccine. Look up the methods of both surveys.
As for the 1% death rate, it is actually 1.7%. Would you take your car for a drive if you knew that you had a 1 in 60 chance of death? Not a good bet, I think. Yet, some of these internet experts find reasons not to get vaccinated. Yes, the vaccine works. It significantly improves your chances of avoiding the disease, and significantly improves your chances of survival if you do get it.
Talk to your doctor. If your doctors says get vaccinated, do it. Do it for the kids, the elderly and the immune system compromised people.
Both sides are guilty of probability abuse, but recently I've seen some crazy stuff.
Furthermore, when you don't break the numbers down by age group and just lump it all together, it's deceptive. It's also quite likely that we've failed to catch 50% or more of cases. The most recent number that I've seen is that the actual case number is around 2.5 times what we've actually documented (based on serology studies). So, even if your 1 in 60 was close to in the ballpark it would be more like 1 in 150.
Based on the Indiana Covid Dashboard the numbers look like this based on the cases we've actually confirmed.
0-19 about 1 in 10,000
20-29 about 1 in 5,000
30-39 about 1 in 1,350
40-49 about 1 in 474
50-59 about 1 in 156
60-69 about 1 in 44
70-79 about 1 in 15
80+ about 1 in 5
Keeping in mind that the second number can likely be multiplied by 2.5 or so to account for all of the cases that we never caught in our data.
The last 2 elderly age groups are severely impacted by nursing home deaths (I could show you how much but you wouldn't believe it if I did). Nationally about 4% of the 75+ live in nursing homes, but those residents have accounted for nearly 50% of all of the covid death in that cohort.
I stated in my original post that 78% of adults over 12 in Israel have been vaccinated for Covid. Your 58% includes those under 12 that haven't been approved to receive the vaccine. The following from the CDC-
"Findings from several studies suggest that SARS-CoV-2 transmission among students is relatively rare, particularly when prevention strategies are in place. An Australian study of 39 COVID-19 cases among 32 students and seven staff traced contacts across 28 schools and six early childhood centers and found only 33 secondary positive cases (28 students and five staff members) out of 3,439 close child contacts and 385 close staff contacts.58, 59 Several contact tracing studies have found limited student-to-student transmission in schools.47, 54, 60, 61 A study of factors associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection among children and adolescents in Mississippi found that school attendance was not associated with a positive SARS-CoV-2 test result. However, close contacts with persons with COVID-19, attending gatherings, and having visitors in the home were associated with SARS-CoV-2 infections among children and adolescents.26 The evidence to date suggests that staff-to-student and student-to-student transmission are not the primary means of exposure to SARS-CoV-2 among infected children. Several studies have also concluded that students are not the primary sources of exposure to SARS-CoV-2 among adults in school setting."
Your post seemingly implies that you believe those under 12 should be vaccinated even though data indicates they transmit the virus rarely.
The seminal paper for transmission of mrna into cells to act as a vaccine was written by Dr Robert Malone at Scripps Institute in 1987 (hardly a crank doctor-if Nobel prize awarded for these vaccines then he will receive one). He is critical of the current mass vaccinations. I believe his proposed approach is reasonable. He states that no one knows the long term impact of mrna vaccines and so it should be used to protect at risk populations (as best possible) and not be provided to younger and low risk populations. The problem with these mrna vaccines to date is that the virus has high mutation rate and strains appear that are able to infect vaccinated individuals.
I don't even understand the practical mechanics of what you are suggesting. You have various high mutation rate strains circulating in a population and vaccines ineffective (or rapidly losing effectivity) against some of those strains. What sort of practical vaccination program do you propose that would eradicate all strains of Covid? Eradicating a readily transmissible mutating virus that is replicating say quadrillions of times per day in a global population of seven billion or so would be quite the feat.
I guess for a population that grew up with Masters of the Universe play sets this seems like just another day at the office. We will kill this thing with our self-righteous indignation.
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Another thing to consider...
According to the dashboard there have been 39 covid deaths in Indiana among those aged 0-29. There are two mitigation ripple effects that have combined to be deadlier than Covid for this cohort.
Nationally there was an 8% increase in car crash fatalities. Indiana followed suit with 61 more car crash fatalities in 2020 than 2019. The national "expert" in the article stated that they were attributing the 8% increase (which was the largest jump since 2007) to higher speeds due to less congestion on roadways. Anyway, since approx 40% of crash fatalities are under the age of 30, we can extrapolate that an additional 25 people under the age of 30 died in Indiana from car crashes for the same reasons.
Therefore, according to the college girls, it only takes a 5% increase (from 2019 to 2020) in under 30 suicide in Indiana for these two mitigation ripple effects to have taken more under 30 lives than covid has in 17 months. They say for some reason actual 2020 suicide statistics haven't been released yet or are very hard to find. Regardless, estimates that they've seen nationally would seem to ensure a far greater jump than 5%
They say that even though these numbers seem very small and nitpicky in the grand scheme of things. It didn't take much to find a couple of mitigation ripple factors to be more deadly than covid for their cohort, and there may well be more mitigation ripples that they have yet to research.
According to the dashboard there have been 39 covid deaths in Indiana among those aged 0-29. There are two mitigation ripple effects that have combined to be deadlier than Covid for this cohort.
Nationally there was an 8% increase in car crash fatalities. Indiana followed suit with 61 more car crash fatalities in 2020 than 2019. The national "expert" in the article stated that they were attributing the 8% increase (which was the largest jump since 2007) to higher speeds due to less congestion on roadways. Anyway, since approx 40% of crash fatalities are under the age of 30, we can extrapolate that an additional 25 people under the age of 30 died in Indiana from car crashes for the same reasons.
Therefore, according to the college girls, it only takes a 5% increase (from 2019 to 2020) in under 30 suicide in Indiana for these two mitigation ripple effects to have taken more under 30 lives than covid has in 17 months. They say for some reason actual 2020 suicide statistics haven't been released yet or are very hard to find. Regardless, estimates that they've seen nationally would seem to ensure a far greater jump than 5%
They say that even though these numbers seem very small and nitpicky in the grand scheme of things. It didn't take much to find a couple of mitigation ripple factors to be more deadly than covid for their cohort, and there may well be more mitigation ripples that they have yet to research.
See...that's the difference. Nobody cares if you got the shot. It's the people who get it,and then tell everyone else they should get it too,that cause the problem. Stay Healthy.
That’s why I don’t tell people to, I had to for work but everyone should (and will) make their own choices.
Science | AAAS
Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot
People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE.
www.bloomberg.com
Jaw-Dropping Academic Study Shows Natural Immunity Superior to COVID Vaccine - SWFI
The global debate of COVID mRNA vaccine mandates and passports has ignited social media, policymakers, and policies that impact just nearly every aspect of public life. A number of major studies by universities are confirming basic biology principles about the power of natural immunity...
www.google.com
What’s unfortunate in viewing some of the replies in this thread is when someone says they know of someone who has died either from the virus itself or from the vaccine, there usually is a “BS, I don’t believe you”. That’s truly unfortunate. I would hope someone wouldn’t fabricate a death/ cause of death just to be “right” on a message board. I stated I know of two people who got vaccinated and died post vaccination. And I can assure you, I don’t take that stuff lightly.
If you go to the VAERS website, you can look up the adverse events associated with each manufacturer. I actually pulled two out in a previous post on this thread. In short….I shake my head when someone says they know someone who died and the immediate response is “BS, now way”.
With all that said, I posted this in another thread.
I’m actually at a Cardiac Conference right now for work. One of the topics on the agenda is Covid and it’s affects on MIs. Big Industry and Cardiac Societies like SCAI are behind it.
Couple quick points from his talk:
1. The IC speaking on the topic has been vaccinated and got it as soon as it was made available.
2. He also made the point to say that there aren’t any true COVID experts. It’s too fluid and approaches change. Not a lot of faith in the CDC
3. Myocarditis IS something they are watching and being cautious with as it relates to the Vaccine. He specifically said he had two patients who got COVID, then got the vaccine and both died of Myocarditis (a 21 and a 30 year old).
4. Another IC asked him if they had a patient who had Covid, would he recommend they get the vaccine immediately. He said NO. He would have the patient wait roughly 6 months before they got the vaccine. His comment was that getting the virus obviously triggers an immune response. If you get the vaccine too close in time to recovery, you are triggering the immune system again…. Then getting the second shot…. You’re stressing your system
5. If someone has NOT contracted COVID, they should get the shot. However, if you’ve had Covid, he recommends waiting a couple months and then only getting 1 of the 2 shots. He specifically said that there are ZERO studies in regard to the affects of the vaccine on patients who have already had COVID.
6. There are discussions around if you get Moderna first round, then you get Pfizer next round. I told him I got Pfizer. He said that he would recommend I get Moderna if I get the booster.
7. He and I talked about the slippery slope / transitive properties of a Vaccine mandate. It’s a slippery slope.
With all of that. It’s not a binary decision IMHO.
Hope everyone stays well
If you go to the VAERS website, you can look up the adverse events associated with each manufacturer. I actually pulled two out in a previous post on this thread. In short….I shake my head when someone says they know someone who died and the immediate response is “BS, now way”.
With all that said, I posted this in another thread.
I’m actually at a Cardiac Conference right now for work. One of the topics on the agenda is Covid and it’s affects on MIs. Big Industry and Cardiac Societies like SCAI are behind it.
Couple quick points from his talk:
1. The IC speaking on the topic has been vaccinated and got it as soon as it was made available.
2. He also made the point to say that there aren’t any true COVID experts. It’s too fluid and approaches change. Not a lot of faith in the CDC
3. Myocarditis IS something they are watching and being cautious with as it relates to the Vaccine. He specifically said he had two patients who got COVID, then got the vaccine and both died of Myocarditis (a 21 and a 30 year old).
4. Another IC asked him if they had a patient who had Covid, would he recommend they get the vaccine immediately. He said NO. He would have the patient wait roughly 6 months before they got the vaccine. His comment was that getting the virus obviously triggers an immune response. If you get the vaccine too close in time to recovery, you are triggering the immune system again…. Then getting the second shot…. You’re stressing your system
5. If someone has NOT contracted COVID, they should get the shot. However, if you’ve had Covid, he recommends waiting a couple months and then only getting 1 of the 2 shots. He specifically said that there are ZERO studies in regard to the affects of the vaccine on patients who have already had COVID.
6. There are discussions around if you get Moderna first round, then you get Pfizer next round. I told him I got Pfizer. He said that he would recommend I get Moderna if I get the booster.
7. He and I talked about the slippery slope / transitive properties of a Vaccine mandate. It’s a slippery slope.
With all of that. It’s not a binary decision IMHO.
Hope everyone stays well
Until very recently, I think that natural immunity was pretty much always considered to be better, The problem was that surviving the disease to gain that natural immunity is often something you would prefer to avoid.Science | AAAS
www.sciencemag.org
Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot
People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE.
Jaw-Dropping Academic Study Shows Natural Immunity Superior to COVID Vaccine - SWFI
The global debate of COVID mRNA vaccine mandates and passports has ignited social media, policymakers, and policies that impact just nearly every aspect of public life. A number of major studies by universities are confirming basic biology principles about the power of natural immunity...www.google.com
Until very recently? I would say the opposite. You had to have a very persistent and strong methodology of google searching to find any articles big tech or any media outlet was willing to post regarding natural immunity. Just as Zeke pointed out, the media and figureheads were all saying that 90 days at most for immunity post virus for someone who had contracted the virus. My own HR team told me the same thing.
The problem I have is all the media and vaccine chest thumpers / preachers who would not recognize natural immunity as being as good or better than the vaccine and lumping the now more than 38,000,000 people in the group of "anit-vaxers" or "unvaccinated".
What I was getting at was prior to 2020 people looked at natural immunity differently. I could be way off on that though, just basing it on a few older articles that I've read recently.
The Cardiologist who I referenced in my earlier post referenced the article you posted.Science | AAAS
Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot
People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE.
Jaw-Dropping Academic Study Shows Natural Immunity Superior to COVID Vaccine - SWFI
The global debate of COVID mRNA vaccine mandates and passports has ignited social media, policymakers, and policies that impact just nearly every aspect of public life. A number of major studies by universities are confirming basic biology principles about the power of natural immunity...www.google.com
Science | AAAS
Pretty much everyone knows someone that died of Covid. I know four. Precious few know anyone that had a serious reaction let alone died of the vacine. I know of none.
Me!...I don't know a single person who has died,or even had a serious condition due to covid. Both parents (upper 60's) had it...sick for 3-4 days,people at work had it,said it was better than being at work(2 weeks off for being sick for a few days)...so I've been lucky.
I know of two that died from complications from vaccination.….PEs. Once again, if you go to the VAERS website that I’ve referenced in a previous post, you can search by Manufacturer. Additionally, the Cardiologist I referenced earlier pointed out two individuals in his talk that died from Myocarditis post vaccination.
Additionally, if you read my entire post, he recommends waiting post recovery from a COVID infection.
50,000 people die from Myocarditis annually. Statistically 50% of these will be vaccinated people based on the vaccinated population. Anything else?
You picked out my post and decided to bring up the not knowing anyone who has died or had an adverse reaction to vaccination stance. I responded to your post that you don’t know of anyone who has died from being vaccinated by saying that I personally know two (PEs) and that the Cardiologist I recently heard speak and interacted with brought up the two Myocarditis patients. His comment was that it is something that needs to be monitored. Everything as it relates to Covid is fluid .
He also rated efficacy:
1. Moderna
2. Pfizer
3. Natural Immunity
4. J&J
Are you trying to have a conversation or focused on just trying to be right? I have a guess, but want to make sure.
I don't have "conversations" with posters who have zero objectivity and politicize things that are not political.
