Buyout of no buyout I can't see a way for him to stay. How is he possible going to recruit anybody. He has to fire multiple coaches and who knows what the contracts are on those. It's only a $5 million delta on the buyout if the hire a $5 million replacement. The school would be better off hiring a $1 million MAC level coach and coaching staff. They would do much better than Allen can do going forward. If he does well, you walk his salary up as Allen's burns off. This idea that you have to pay $5 million for a coach is nonsense. There are MAC coaches better allen, MAC coordinators like Vince Koehres who are former head coaches and ready for jobs. There are D2, and D3 coaches that are better than Allen. There are high school coaches better than Allen who'd work for 100K. There are a lot of creative things you could do to make a change.
No Path forward for Allen
- Thread starter MMcCormick
- Start date
I was a backup QB in 8th grade. I'll take the job for $50K.
He's not going anywhere. The buyout is 25 million. If things don't improve by December 2024 then he's gone when the buyout isn't 25 million. It's 25 million until then.
As bad as the past 2 years have been, we were one possession from beating Maryland and Rutgers this year. That's how you are evaluated as a head coach at IU, not how you perform in the horseshoe. Allen would be facing ZERO pressure if we were sitting at 5-5 with MSU and Purdue left on the schedule.
MSU is nothing to write home about. We have 5 common opponents (OSU, UM, Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois). They lost to these teams by an average of 10.2 points. We lost by an average of 14.4 points.
If Minnesota beats Iowa next week, Purdue will have a Big Ten West Championship on the line in the Bucket Game. All it would take to save the season is to beat Purdue.
If we get blown out by MSU and Purdue (could happen, we'll be double digit dogs), then he still won't be fired. He'll start next year on the "hot seat". But it will all be for show, we're not getting rid of him before December 2024.
If you're not OK with this, pick another team to follow for the next 2 years.
As bad as the past 2 years have been, we were one possession from beating Maryland and Rutgers this year. That's how you are evaluated as a head coach at IU, not how you perform in the horseshoe. Allen would be facing ZERO pressure if we were sitting at 5-5 with MSU and Purdue left on the schedule.
MSU is nothing to write home about. We have 5 common opponents (OSU, UM, Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois). They lost to these teams by an average of 10.2 points. We lost by an average of 14.4 points.
If Minnesota beats Iowa next week, Purdue will have a Big Ten West Championship on the line in the Bucket Game. All it would take to save the season is to beat Purdue.
If we get blown out by MSU and Purdue (could happen, we'll be double digit dogs), then he still won't be fired. He'll start next year on the "hot seat". But it will all be for show, we're not getting rid of him before December 2024.
If you're not OK with this, pick another team to follow for the next 2 years.
The buyout drops to $20 Mil a year from now and then roughly $8 Mil on 12/1/2024
That’s a bit harsh. Can’t see how any true IU fan is ok with any of this. But that sure as hell doesn’t mean anyone should follow another team.
I have said this multiple times as well basically, The buyout is what you pay someone else and at this point anybody they can hire can not be worse that TA . Get someone for a million and that is the buyout as you are paying TA anyway and know what you are getting.
If we let the program slip completely to the abyss it’s going to cost a lot more than $25 million dollars. It would be pretty short sighted to keep him around solely for that reason.
Would be better off paying Allen to not to show up for the next 2 years and letting Carey coach on an interim basis until Allen’s firing becomes a formality. Cannot let him coach/recruit for the next two years to save money.
We were also one possession away from losing to Ill and W Kentucky.
Exactly. We have should ability to hire good $5 million coaches so hire one of the other 98% of the football coaches in the Universe who make $1 million or less.
My point is the buyout is going to be pd regardless so if you fire TA anyone you hire has to be better for a yr anyway so whatever you pay for him is equivalent to the actual cost of the buyout because TA is a known quantity that will lose.
Should be able to spend more but even if you spend 1 million it cant be worse meaning the net difference is the million.............I admit no idea as to assistant coach cost in that equation. Hell reassign TA and put him in charge of the janitorial svc for football and see how long he stays .
100%.
We were much closer to losing both of those games than beating either Maryland or Rutgers.
I just sold my tickets for the Bucket game to a PUke fan. I said I'd never do it but he and his wife are going with their son who is an IU student (and a former student of mine). The kid is teriffic and delights in the fact that he broke his dad's heart by going to IU so I don't feel too bad. Besides, maybe if the place is full of Boiler fans the powers that be will take notice that IU fans are fed up.
If Allen is back next year I don't plan to attend a single game. I'll still buy season tickets as a placeholder for the day IU can afford to can him, but I'm not showing up to spend an extra penny. I'll sell my tickets for every game on Stubhub or directly to opponents' fans. I 'll also send a note that I will be redirecting my VC contribution to other IU programs. I just can't in good conscience continue to show up and support what I've seen the last two years. I hope it doesn't come to that but if it does, I hope a lot of long-suffering season ticket holders like myself make the same decision. A message has to be sent that money not spent on a buyout will be offset by losses in football revenue streams. Of course, with the BBall team rising, I'm sure an awful lot of boosters will continue to buy fball tickets and make their usual contributions to insure their priority points. I get that, and I don't blame anyone who does.
If this sh!+show has to continue for two more years, I hope to God the BOT makes sure our ADs never again are allowed to negotiate contracts with ridiculous buyouts.
Of course there is a path forward. Win the last two, go 5-7, point out that this is an above average result for IU.
I'm not saying that's what will happen, but it's not hard to imagine that Allen thinks it will.
Dolson gains nothing by firing him now. Might as well wait and see.
I'm not saying that's what will happen, but it's not hard to imagine that Allen thinks it will.
Dolson gains nothing by firing him now. Might as well wait and see.
I agree with this. I don't think there is any purpose served by firing him before the end of the season. And if the Hoosiers somehow find a way to win the last two, I would support giving TA another year ( and I'll eat the crow and show up next year as well). I'm not holding my breath, but I'm also not going to hope any coach at IU fails. It's just maddening how far this program has fallen in just two years after such promising seasons in 2019 and 2020.
I don't think there's any chance he gets fired next year either. There's 2 wins early on the schedule with Indiana State and Akron at home. Let's assume worst case scenario - we lose to Louisville, we lose at Maryland, and Rutgers comes into Bloomington and beats us. Are we all of the sudden going to say "you know what, here's 20+ million, we're going to find someone else to coach here next year"? No shot.
What I need right now to cheer me up is a FeePew sighting of a big name coach he’s seen talking to Dolson outside of Memorial Stadium.
A big time coach would require 5 years to get things turned around with this madhouse of a schedule.
Do you, or anybody else really, believe Allen and this team with the existing OL and DL has a realistic chance of even being competitive in these last two games, much less actually winning? Have you been watching this team? I thought after watching the first three games that IU had as good a chance of losing out the rest of the season as winning even one or two games. The early wins were highly flawed.
After Cincinnati, the odds of them losing out became quite high and then after the Nebraska loss I was pretty sure they would lose out. I've seen nothing that tells me this team is capable of winning anything. The game is won, to a large degree, in the trenches and IU can't beat anyone in the trenches. I think one other thing is obvious, they don't practice until their execution is flawless on anything. Maybe Charles Campbell and the placekicking game, that's about it.
Allen makes a big deal out of plays they should make every . . single . . time. Great coaches don't act like that. I think LEO is great, but the guy's job is to win football games, not sure Allen realizes that. Allen doesn't know his own limitations. When the contract extention and pay boost came up, the smarter move would have been for Allen to forego the personal increases and ask that the money be put into the pool to pay big money for the OC and DC and then, only then, and only if Allen gave up on the idea of folks he knew and only absolute cultural fits and his own defensive prowess could he have gotten the expertise he needed to be a winning coach.
Because of the buyout, the next two seasons look to be pretty pointless. IU is just an FCS school on every other B1G team's schedule now. A veritable speed bump. Hugely embarrassing.
there's absolutely no way any fan base is going to allow this to continue another 2 years. if you do that it just makes the rebuild that much longer. if dolson doesn't do it he's got to go too.
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Would a couda a should a we also could be without a victory right now.
Absolutely could be a 1-9 team right now. Could also be 6-4. The point I think he’s making (correctly) is that those small things that go one way or the other that are the difference between a 7-5/8-4 team and a 2-10/3-9 team are kind of imaginary. If we were looking at 8-4 and a mid tier bowl, a lot of people who are calling for CTA’s head now wouldn’t be because they couldn’t see past the record.
It’s the same kind of person that thought PSU was trash in 2020 and ended up being really good in ‘21 or ‘22. Or that MSU was all of a sudden a great team because of ‘21 success, when it was built on some great transfers and some good luck.
For my money, the 2019 team was CTA’s best. A huge chunk of that being DeBoer. Much less so Wommack (many people called for his head on here that year and about how he was a elitism hire and in over his head, etc.). It was the last year with a quality OL and great play calling.
2020 was fool’s gold. Not because of the wins/losses, but because of their quality. I’ve been very disappointed the last two games. They remind me very much of the back half of 2021 where the team would fall apart quickly and games get out of hand. Up til then, every game seemed at least winnable fairly late. I don’t have high expectations for MSU or PU, and if things don’t at least trend in the right direction over the next two games, then CTA is pretty clearly living on borrowed time.
you are what your record says you are.
Except when someone wants to downplay a good season.
Wait for it…….
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He is already on borrowed time. We just got an inch of snow (roughly) across Indiana. Only the die hardest of the diehards are going to sit through weather like yesterday to watch a 3 and 8 IU team get curb stomped by Purdue in 2 weeks.
Allen is over. It isn't just the losing, the team is completely inept. He has had the best recruiting classes for Indiana ever and he hasn't developed any of it. We are on the fast track back to the Dinardo and Lynch days and making a move severely hampers anything else the University wants to do on the athletic side of the house. Forget the personnel decision on Allen after this year, Dolson shoukd be let go for the buyout being what it is to begin with.
Exactly, and it was clear why 2020 was the aberration that it has proved to be. Simply put, we made a bad hire and then compounded it by extending his contract. It’s been a clinic in poor leadership, and it’s why we have the program we’ve both demanded and deserve. Many of us saw this coming (and why), but it doesn’t make it any less disappointing.
Sure. They were competitive against Illinois and Rutgers. No reason they can't be competitive against MSU and Purdue. MSU isn't good this year, and Purdue is in the west.
You aren't in practice, you have no idea what they do. Practice until they are flawless? Lol. Flapping your arms for 20 hours a week won't help you learn to fly.
Sure...he should have given up the money. Just said thanks, but I'd rather be paid like the 13th best BIG coach, so we can hire a big name OC who will jump at the very next head job they see.
We have three wins. We aren't firing Allen this week. We probably aren't firing him after this season. We signed up for several seasons of Allen when we gave him that buyout. That's the cost of keeping a coach that turns in a couple good seasons at a place like IU.
It's easy to say shoulda woulda coulda with hindsight on the buyout. But if we had let him go and he found success with some other team, you'd be on here complaining about our lack of commitment and paying to keep quality coaches.
No one cares about your alleged fortune telling skills, where you now claim that it was obvious to you that things would turn out exactly like this. Of course, back in September, you didn't sound quite so negative:
Maybe sit the next couple plays out Champs.
This came up a few weeks back, especially how GD’s 3rd/final team in ‘04 showed major improvement. Beating ranked, at the time, Oregon and Minnesota; Blowing leads in games they controlled most of the way at Northwestern and Illinois; and the infamous 1st/goal from the 2 late with 4 horrendous play calls vs PSU. That team, while not having much fire power, looked well coached up and prepared. This year’s bunch does not.
Even Lynch’s last team, 2010, again with no where the talent this year’s team has, was in last possession winnable games against Michigan, then Iowa and beat PU.
Even Lynch’s last team, 2010, again with no where the talent this year’s team has, was in last possession winnable games against Michigan, then Iowa and beat PU.
Ugh. To each his own and they are your tickets to do with as you will and you’ve earned the right to sell them to anyone you wish. I just can’t sell to opposing fans having endured their crap for many many years and will most likely be eating my 4 bucket game tickets and parking pass.
As to next year, I will be dropping down to 2 seats from 4 and yes, only to keep significant VC points earned through years of avid support of a dismal football program. I may or may not make a game or 2 and will try to find IU fans to use my seats for most games. Hoosier Ticket Project seems like a good option but honestly not sure they will want them. Worst case they go unused but as far as it is within my power opposing fans will NOT be in my seats.
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Honestly, with that attitude, just drop football. You’re hurting the overall perception of the school behaving like that. IU will just be comedic fodder of ineptness and that could have ripple effects
I just don't see how you have a choice but to make a coaching change. It's really hard to recover from two or three win seasons because your recruiting dries up. With the portal you may be able to fill up a roster, but it gets really hard from this point.
Agreed. You run the risk of Allen burning the whole program to the ground
We drop football, the school gets removed from the conference. Not sure how many folks realize it but you have to field a football team to remain a member. IU won’t do that or it gives up its welfare check to be the community college of the conference pulling in big bucks on the backs of other schools, which is basically what the school is now.
Worst conventional wisdom.
A team that, for example, was winless losing every game 2 pts is not necessarily a horrible team because of a horrible record. A team that is undefeated winning every game by 2 points isn’t necessarily a great team because of a great record.
I’ll die on the hill that the 2020 team wasn’t as good as their record and this team’s not as bad as its record, at least until the last two weeks.
when he leaves here he's not getting a HC job anywhere at the college level.
But for 2 Md yr in a row, offense (starting w/OL) was so bad it demoralized the defense until they are now all dead men walking to get to end of season. His keeping Hiller was his downfall and then I unfortunately don’t think he has the chops to be a top B10 HC.
