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Myles Brand destroyed the IU program

In fact those players tended to have fewer problems then the student body at large.

Is there empirical evidence to support that this is true, and that these tactics were the reason it was true, and those players wouldn't have had less problems regardless of how their coaches treated them? (That's a two part question.)
Or, are you just depending on your feelings?
 
RMK is who are talking about in this thread. Like I told ufo, you are free to substitute whatever person your youth coach was trying to emulate in an attempt to disguise their frustrations and shortcomings as sound motivational tactics.
They weren’t trying to emulate anyone to the best of my knowledge.
 
As a coach the difference is today you can't touch someone, or invade their "safe space". You can't yell at anyone. You can't use macho/military terms that were used in the past for calling them out as weak and not competing hard. PC is literally tying their arms behind the back of teachers and coaches. Zero tolerance. If zero tolerance as term would have been used when I grew up, it would have meant going against the orders from your parents, teachers, coaches. It may be that a large number all of my male teachers and coaches served in the military and fought in wars. That military mindset never left them, and they viewed students and players as new recruits to be toughened up for battle on the court and in the real world. It was good, it made us focused and strong. You went all out 100% all the time or you would sit. And get ripped apart in the locker room in front of your teammates. It got everyone on the same page. It worked well. You didnt worry about blood then, pre -HIV scare. We kept bandages, wraps, first aid kit. You patched up and you went back in there.
 
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Is there empirical evidence to support that this is true, and that these tactics were the reason it was true, and those players wouldn't have had less problems regardless of how their coaches treated them? (That's a two part question.)
Or, are you just depending on your feelings?
I was right. You couldn’t even accept the fact that it might be true but it is true.
 
They weren’t trying to emulate anyone to the best of my knowledge.

Okay...fair enough.
BTW, on a serious note, have you ever read the book, "Pistol: The Life of Pete Maravich"? I remember, as a kid, racing home from church to watch him play for the Atlanta Hawks on Sunday afternoons. The NBA was not all that popular, but they would show his games, and he was awesome to watch. The book is very good, and I think, as a basketball fan, that you would enjoy it.
 
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As a coach the difference is today you can't touch someone, or invade their "safe space". You can't yell at anyone. You can't use macho/military terms that were used in the past for calling them out as weak and not competing hard. PC is literally tying their arms behind the back of teachers and coaches. Zero tolerance. If it would have been used when I grew up, it would have meant going against the orders from your parents, teachers, coaches. It may be that a large number all of my male teachers and coaches served in the military and fought in wars. That military mindset never left them, and they may have viewed students and players as new recruits to be toughened up for battle on the court and in the real world.
 
Okay...fair enough.
BTW, on a serious note, have you ever read the book, "Pistol: The Life of Pete Maravich"? I remember, as a kid, racing home from church to watch him play for the Atlanta Hawks on Sunday afternoons. The NBA was not all that popular, but they would show his games, and he was awesome to watch. The book is very good, and I think, as a basketball fan, that you would enjoy it.
I will read it. Now his passing was memorable. You likely know the story but if not-
He had been sick and was back at LSU playing a pick up game. The LSU team doctor approached him and asked how you feeling Pete. Pete said Doc I never felt better in my life and then dropped dead. The doctor worked on him but couldn’t get him back. When the good Lord calls you home that’s your time no doubt about it.
 
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As a coach the difference is today you can't touch someone, or invade their "safe space". You can't yell at anyone. You can't use macho/military terms that were used in the past for calling them out as weak and not competing hard. PC is literally tying their arms behind the back of teachers and coaches. Zero tolerance. If zero tolerance as term would have been used when I grew up, it would have meant going against the orders from your parents, teachers, coaches. It may be that a large number all of my male teachers and coaches served in the military and fought in wars. That military mindset never left them, and they viewed students and players as new recruits to be toughened up for battle on the court and in the real world. It was good, it made us focused and strong. You went all out 100% all the time or you would sit. And get ripped apart in the locker room in front of your teammates. It got everyone on the same page. It worked well. You didnt worry about blood then, pre -HIV scare. We kept bandages, wraps, first aid kit. You patched up and you went back in there.

Yeah, I can't remember the last time I saw a basketball coach yell at his team, or get his players to play hard, or be intense in a game or practice, or players diving out of bounds and giving 100%, or get bloody. Yeah, that stuff never happens anymore. :rolleyes:

BTW, who do you think the parents of these "soft" kids are?
 
So, your answer is no. And your only evidence that it is true, is, well, because you say so? Sorry, that doesn't cut it.
You know there used to be a thing called common sense that people used. You didn’t have to ask experts but you used your own power of reason to determine if something was likely true or not true. In many cases it worked better than asking an expert for the answer especially if the experts tended to be driven by an ideology.
 
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RMK is who we are talking about in this thread. Like I told ufo, you are free to substitute whatever person your youth coach was trying to emulate in an attempt to disguise their frustrations and shortcomings as sound motivational tactics.
Bottom line, times have changed.
What I am saying that RMK was not alone in his era of being a tough, diciplinarian, vocal, physical coach. Maybe it was still the WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War veteran era effect on male role models who served in the military during that era. Knight never changed. The kids changed. Not Knight.
 
Yeah, I can't remember the last time I saw a basketball coach yell at his team, or get his players to play hard, or be intense in a game or practice, or players diving out of bounds and giving 100%, or get bloody. Yeah, that stuff never happens anymore. :rolleyes:

BTW, who do you think the parents of these "soft" kids are?
Today coaches are petitioned by parents who lawyer-up in an attempt to get the coach fired for being to verbally harsh with their sons, who took away the love of the game from them.
 
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I will read it. Now his passing was memorable. You likely know the story but if not-
He had been sick and was back at LSU playing a pick up game. The LSU team doctor approached him and asked how you feeling Pete. Pete said Doc I never felt better in my life and then dropped dead. The doctor worked on him but couldn’t get him back. When the good Lord calls you home that’s your time no doubt about it.

Well now that you’ve brought Jesus into it, let’s get back to your point about calling Neil Reed a huge pussy. Did the “good Lord” call him home? And if so did he have any issues with him being, as you stated, a huge pussy? Or did he send Neil to hell? You are truly a sanctimonious idiot.
 
You know there used to be a thing called common sense that people used. You didn’t have to ask experts but you used your own power of reason to determine if something was likely true or not true. In many cases it worked better than asking an expert for the answer especially if the experts tended to be driven by an ideology.

Yeah, common sense used to be the basis of support for a lot of things we no longer believe. It was common sense that flies spontaneously generated from dead carcasses, or that the earth was flat. Wait, that may be a bad example.
 
Today coaches are petitioned by parents who lawyer-up in an attempt to get the coach fired for being to verbally harsh with their sons, who took away the love of the game from them.

All coaches? Half? 1/4? How many? And how many of those coaches actually deserved to be fired?
 
Well now that you’ve brought Jesus into it, let’s get back to your point about calling Neil Reed a huge pussy. Did the “good Lord” call him home? And if so did he have any issues with him being, as you stated, a huge pussy? Or did he send Neil to hell? You are truly a sanctimonious idiot.

Actually, CA is not the one who said he hoped Reed was in hell.
 
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All coaches? Half? 1/4? How many? And how many of those coaches actually deserved to be fired?
Again, the coach should not be fired for yelling at a player in front of his teammates. It's called coaching. It is just ridiculous parents who must have zero discipline for their kids. And when they discover discipline from a coach they are shocked by it and don't like it.
 
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Again, the coach should not be fired for yelling at a player in front of his teammates. It's called coaching. It is just ridiculous parents who must have zero discipline for their kids. And when they discover discipline from a coach they are shocked by it and don't like it.

You are the king of straw man arguments. A few coaches, some of who probably deserved it, does not equal all coaches.

And what level are we talking about now? I will go ahead and say that if you are coaching kids who are less than 14 years old (or so), and you are yelling at them, then you should probably stop. Now, yelling at a kid, and raising your voice to be heard across a loud gym, or to get a point across to a team are different things. Laying into a young kid is seldom a good idea, and is many times counter-productive. Yelling encouragement or to get a team fired up is a horse of a different color.
 
Actually, CA is not the one who said he hoped Reed was in hell.
I
You are the king of straw man arguments. A few coaches, some of who probably deserved it, does not equal all coaches.

And what level are we talking about now? I will go ahead and say that if you are coaching kids who are less than 14 years old (or so), and you are yelling at them, then you should probably stop. Now, yelling at a kid, and raising your voice to be heard across a loud gym, or to get a point across to a team are different things. Laying into a young kid is seldom a good idea, and is many times counter-productive. Yelling encouragement or to get a team fired up is a horse of a different color.
High School varsity coach.
Player is a Senior.
Old enough to vote as an adult or fight for his country.
Old enough to be treated as an adult.
No cussing, no physical abuse, an old fashioned verbal lashing for trying to be selfish and not being a team player. Parents have a different agenda than winning HS games. Too bad.
 
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Okay...fair enough.
BTW, on a serious note, have you ever read the book, "Pistol: The Life of Pete Maravich"? I remember, as a kid, racing home from church to watch him play for the Atlanta Hawks on Sunday afternoons. The NBA was not all that popular, but they would show his games, and he was awesome to watch. The book is very good, and I think, as a basketball fan, that you would enjoy it.

Watching Pistol Pete, Lou Alcindor and Bill Walton in college are among my favorite basketball memories. Alcindor and Walton were just dominating players who were also coaches on the court. And watching Pistol Pete was just fun. Every shot the Pistol took was makeable as long as he was past the half-court line.
 
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Bottom line, times have changed.
What I am saying that RMK was not alone in his era of being a tough, diciplinarian, vocal, physical coach. Maybe it was still the WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War veteran era effect on male role models who served in the military during that era. Knight never changed. The kids changed. Not Knight.

The rules changed. The three point play and the shot clock made the game less cerebral. And that boosted the importance of athleticism and unfortunately dumbed down coaching a little bit. About 10 years ago I had the opportunity to talk with Brent Musburger for hours about Indiana basketball. I made this argument to him and he was in complete agreement. But then again he could’ve just been a polite and nice guy. Either way it was great fun talking sports with him.
 
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Yeah, common sense used to be the basis of support for a lot of things we no longer believe. It was common sense that flies spontaneously generated from dead carcasses, or that the earth was flat. Wait, that may be a bad example.
Not hard to determine for yourself that flies don’t spontaneously arrive in a carcass and that the earth can’t be flat. No need to ask an expert.

How about experts that said-
Cigarettes are healthy and don’t cause cancer even though everyone knew they did
Or
Giving your baby Guinness stout helps their development
or
Eggs raise cholesterol
Or
Radium waters are good for your health
Or
Hillary will win by the largest margin in history
Or
The Large Hadron Collider will prove supersymmetry
Or
This will be the worst hurricane season EVER
Or
It goes on and on. Some experts motivated by money and contracts and others by political ideology. When an expert tells me that all Trump supporters are mentally ill as an example then I use common sense to tell me this is not a true statement. There are lots of things I hear from talking head experts that are clearly false.

But if something is inconsistent with someone’s ideology then they canny believe because if they did it might call into question the whole edifice of their belief system.

I will try to find a study of the impact of various coaching techniques on teen and adult behavior but doubt there is one. It was just part of the ideological edifice that many accepted. Something like-aggression towards others is always wrong and is never positive for the agressee so it follows that physical aggression has no positive effect and in fact poisons the development of young males in sports. I will look for that study but you and I know it was never done it was just a principle that was accepted by PC culture.
Yeah, common sense used to be the basis of support for a lot of things we no longer believe. It was common sense that flies spontaneously generated from dead carcasses, or that the earth was flat. Wait, that may be a bad example.
 
I wonder how many high school varsity coaches have been fired for yelling at a player in the last 20 years. I think there would be many zeroes to the right of the decimal point in that %.
20 years ago - no
Today - it is happening
It is more difficult to coach today than it was in the past, i got out of HS coaching 2 years ago.
 
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Watching Pistol Pete, Lou Alcindor and Bill Walton in college are among my favorite basketball memories. Alcindor and Walton were just dominating players who were also coaches on the court. And watching Pistol Pete was just fun. Every shot the Pistol took was makeable as long as he was past the half-court line.
I agree.
 
20 years ago - no
Today - it is happening
It is more difficult to coach today than it was in the past, i got out of HS coaching 2 years ago.[/
20 years ago - no
Today - it is happening
It is more difficult to coach today than it was in the past, i got out of HS coaching 2 years ago.
I don’t see how you did it. Everyone is a winner-nope not true. Losers outrank winners by a yuuuuge margin in every competitive activity known to man. Next step will be to start eliminating competition in non sports life so no one gets left behind. Trouble is that has been tried many times and it never works out well.
 
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My early memories were the 1975-76 IU team.
The Big Red Machine.
Reggie, Billie, George, and the Yankees
Steelers and Cowboys
Pacers
Celtics and Lakers
Jeez UFO can you take the cowboys off your list. Just seeing Dallas makes me angry (it’s my toxic masculinity).
 
Jeez UFO can you take the cowboys off your list. Just seeing Dallas makes me angry (it’s my toxic masculinity).
I was just quoting who was winning at that time.
The Cowboys vs Steelers Super Bowl XIII was one of the all-time best NFL championship games.
 
20 years ago - no
Today - it is happening
It is more difficult to coach today than it was in the past, i got out of HS coaching 2 years ago.
Just been thinking about being a school basketball coach in today’s PC world. I can’t even imagine. It must have been like a trip through the horrors of PC culture. Everyone’s a winner, everyone must excel, and no one can be disciplined. Oh what a crazy country we have created and you likely saw some of the worst of it. But no the PC warriors think all is well. This is as it should be.

To call out a selfish kid before the team you need a legal team standing by-WTF.

My parents would have sided with the coach 110%. But not now after the latest expert book on how to raise a child.
 
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Just been thinking about being a school basketball coach in today’s PC world. I can’t even imagine. It must have been like a trip through the horrors of PC culture. Everyone’s a winner, everyone must excel, and no one can be disciplined. Oh what a crazy country we have created and you likely saw some of the worst of it. But no the PC warriors think all is well. This is as it should be.

To call out a selfish kid before the team you need a legal team standing by-WTF.

My parents would have sided with the coach 110%. But not now after the latest expert book on how to raise a child.

Was this post written by the Brothers Grimm?
 
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Just been thinking about being a school basketball coach in today’s PC world. I can’t even imagine. It must have been like a trip through the horrors of PC culture. Everyone’s a winner, everyone must excel, and no one can be disciplined. Oh what a crazy country we have created and you likely saw some of the worst of it. But no the PC warriors think all is well. This is as it should be.

To call out a selfish kid before the team you need a legal team standing by-WTF.

My parents would have sided with the coach 110%. But not now after the latest expert book on how to raise a child.
I lay th
Was this post written by the Brothers Grimm?
I wish it were but no it’s from modern life in PC culture USA. The parents were brainwashed at University into believing they are very smart and must lead the world to the light. They read the expert’s books on child rearing and out popped the millennials. Now the millennials are reaching child bearing age and if any of them can manage to get it together long enough to have a child then we get the real cream of the PC crop-the post-millennials. Oh gee can’t wait for that little surprise box.
 
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I lay th

I wish it were but no it’s from modern life in PC culture USA. The parents were brainwashed at University into believing they are very smart and must lead the world to the light. They read the expert’s books on child rearing and out popped the millennials. Now the millennials are reaching child bearing age and if any of them can manage to get it together long enough to have a child then we get the real cream of the PC crop-the post-millennials. Oh gee can’t wait for that little surprise box.

pop-art-illustration-drama-queen-t-shirt-print-portrait-crying-girl-94658340.jpg
 
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I lay th

I wish it were but no it’s from modern life in PC culture USA. The parents were brainwashed at University into believing they are very smart and must lead the world to the light. They read the expert’s books on child rearing and out popped the millennials. Now the millennials are reaching child bearing age and if any of them can manage to get it together long enough to have a child then we get the real cream of the PC crop-the post-millennials. Oh gee can’t wait for that little surprise box.

“Ya, all these lazy kids do is sit around and watch fire” — Grumpy Caveman Dad
 
There you have it. It will be better to just skip a generation and try to get this mess straightened out. The history books will say the post Millenial generation was skipped due to lack of interest or as it was explained at the time-
ilotibinlirl wwdhd fwiw yolo.

“Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”
Aristotle, 4th Century BC

“Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.”
Book III of Odes, Horace, circa 20 BC

“Youth were never more sawcie, yea never more savagely saucie . . . the ancient are scorned, the honourable are contemned, the magistrate is not dreaded.”
The Wise-Man’s Forecast against the Evill Time, Thomas Barnes, 1624

“Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt…”
Letter in Town and Country magazine republished in Paris Fashion: A Cultural History, 1771

“…a fearful multitude of untutored savages… [boys] with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits…[girls who] drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody…the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly.”
Anthony Ashley Cooper, the 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, Speech to the House of Commons, February 28, 1843

“Never has youth been exposed to such dangers of both perversion and arrest as in our own land and day. Increasing urban life with its temptations, prematurities, sedentary occupations, and passive stimuli just when an active life is most needed, early emancipation and a lessening sense for both duty and discipline…”
The Psychology of Adolescence, Granville Stanley Hall, 1904

“We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.”
The Conduct of Young People, Hull Daily Mail, 1925

“Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.”
Problems of Young People, Leeds Mercury, 1938

"There you have it. It will be better to just skip a generation and try to get this mess straightened out. The history books will say the post Millenial generation was skipped due to lack of interest or as it was explained at the time."
CriticArisen, Post on Rivals Free Hoops Forum, 2019



 
“Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”
Aristotle, 4th Century BC

“Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.”
Book III of Odes, Horace, circa 20 BC

“Youth were never more sawcie, yea never more savagely saucie . . . the ancient are scorned, the honourable are contemned, the magistrate is not dreaded.”
The Wise-Man’s Forecast against the Evill Time, Thomas Barnes, 1624

“Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt…”
Letter in Town and Country magazine republished in Paris Fashion: A Cultural History, 1771

“…a fearful multitude of untutored savages… [boys] with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits…[girls who] drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody…the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly.”
Anthony Ashley Cooper, the 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, Speech to the House of Commons, February 28, 1843

“Never has youth been exposed to such dangers of both perversion and arrest as in our own land and day. Increasing urban life with its temptations, prematurities, sedentary occupations, and passive stimuli just when an active life is most needed, early emancipation and a lessening sense for both duty and discipline…”
The Psychology of Adolescence, Granville Stanley Hall, 1904

“We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.”
The Conduct of Young People, Hull Daily Mail, 1925

“Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.”
Problems of Young People, Leeds Mercury, 1938

"There you have it. It will be better to just skip a generation and try to get this mess straightened out. The history books will say the post Millenial generation was skipped due to lack of interest or as it was explained at the time."
CriticArisen, Post on Rivals Free Hoops Forum, 2019
Very nice quotes and thank you for this but consider one difference-

Starting with Dewey and I would say finalized by Ayers, Soros, et al. The Public school system in the US became a mechanism they used to further their ends. They began gaining control over the curriculums and inserting their ideology wherever possible. It was a well thought out strategy and executed over the long term.

One thing of diabolical genius they incorporated were “experts”. Even though the schools did everything possible to weaken critical thinking skills it was sill possible that people would begin thinking critically for themselves after graduation and so they propagandized students to rely on “experts” for their social and political decisions. They taught the students no matter how smart they were that the best decisions came from experts. Most “experts” would be from left leaning academic backgrounds so they could maintain control through these experts in the media.

The plan used many of Stalin’s ideas and methods in the Soviet Union and so here we are.

I have noticed also that Millenials will often ignore what is in plain site in front of them in favor of what they hear from an expert.

I don’t see this as just a random difference between generations but rather the outcome of a well thought out plan executed over the long term.
 
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