..caved to PC and it's been downhill ever since.
Myles Brand destroyed the IU program
- Thread starter Hingisman
- Start date
Funny thing is...
...he even announced his intention to do so.
...he even announced his intention to do so.
I agree but it was more Brand. It took a late governor to appoint enough trustees to also do that. I was told that governor vowed to get even with RMK for kicking his cronies to the curb when RMK took over. Politics.
I've headed up a large company and I have to say those who preceded Brand helped destroy the IU program. They allowed a great coach to become, not only the big man on campus, but in a some cases, the only man on campus.
RMK should have been tempered early on and there were some attempts to do so, but remember his threats to move on. In effect, he won those battles and thought he could do no wrong which he couldn't correct in a way he preferred.
He came to not being responsible to anyone other than himself and things began to unravel over a period of years.
Brand came in thinking his job, in part, was to restore sanity with an employee who really was out of control, looking backward and forward. Brand and RMK arrived at a point where only one was going to survive if change didn't occur,.......it didn't, and one of them had to go.
I would agree with those who wonder if all of it would have gone down had the basketball program mirrored the glory years during the 1995-2000 era, but it didn't.
Put yourself in Brand's shoes rather than those of RMK or the IU fans and it's a different situation, that is if you intended to be seen as the leader at IU.
RMK should have been tempered early on and there were some attempts to do so, but remember his threats to move on. In effect, he won those battles and thought he could do no wrong which he couldn't correct in a way he preferred.
He came to not being responsible to anyone other than himself and things began to unravel over a period of years.
Brand came in thinking his job, in part, was to restore sanity with an employee who really was out of control, looking backward and forward. Brand and RMK arrived at a point where only one was going to survive if change didn't occur,.......it didn't, and one of them had to go.
I would agree with those who wonder if all of it would have gone down had the basketball program mirrored the glory years during the 1995-2000 era, but it didn't.
Put yourself in Brand's shoes rather than those of RMK or the IU fans and it's a different situation, that is if you intended to be seen as the leader at IU.
Could you elaborate?
I'm guessing you're talking about Gov. O'Bannon -- as he's the only recent governor that would be described as "late".
Are you saying that O'Bannon had it in for RMK because.....because RMK kicked some of O'Bannon's cronies to the curb? And, as such, O'Bannon chose his Trustee appointments on their willingness to give RMK the heave-ho?
If that's an accurate summation of what you're saying, let me be the first to express some incredulity. Who were these cronies that Knight kicked to the curb?
This post was edited on 3/30 11:20 AM by crazed_hoosier2
I'm guessing you're talking about Gov. O'Bannon -- as he's the only recent governor that would be described as "late".
Are you saying that O'Bannon had it in for RMK because.....because RMK kicked some of O'Bannon's cronies to the curb? And, as such, O'Bannon chose his Trustee appointments on their willingness to give RMK the heave-ho?
If that's an accurate summation of what you're saying, let me be the first to express some incredulity. Who were these cronies that Knight kicked to the curb?
This post was edited on 3/30 11:20 AM by crazed_hoosier2
I get that but it never had to reach the point it did
Davis is a great guy but the wrong choice fornthenwrong reasons.
Sampson was what really screwed the pooch and that was not Myles.
Davis is a great guy but the wrong choice fornthenwrong reasons.
Sampson was what really screwed the pooch and that was not Myles.
As much as I enjoyed the wins and the national titles I have to say RMK caused his own downfall. The guy who destroyed IU basketball is the guy who made Mike Davis head coach. You don't replace a legend in winning with an assistant coach with no head coach experience. But, IU solved that problem by hiring a cheater who was on probation for cheating at another school. And guess what? He did the same thing at IU and we paid dearly for it and we're still paying...
Re: That's not accurate.
What he said on several occasions for the six years is that he wanted to "turn down the volume" on college athletics.
He tried to do that at IU...all,he accomplished was turning the program away from its high moral ground. The volume never stopped as the fan base it too intense and demanding. It is as loud as ever and he failed to recognize that.
What he said on several occasions for the six years is that he wanted to "turn down the volume" on college athletics.
He tried to do that at IU...all,he accomplished was turning the program away from its high moral ground. The volume never stopped as the fan base it too intense and demanding. It is as loud as ever and he failed to recognize that.
Totally disagree. He temporarily set us back
But we have had plenty of time to right the ship. A bad hire in Sampson and the current situation has nothing to do with Miles Brand IMO.
But we have had plenty of time to right the ship. A bad hire in Sampson and the current situation has nothing to do with Miles Brand IMO.
IU basically ignored his advice
They paid a bunch of money for a bad athletic director (McNeeley), paid at the low end for DiNardo, fired him for a better guy in Hoeppner (who only took the job because they promised him they would enhance the facilities, which they did), hired another AD to shepherd the facilities expansion, paid very good money to hire a coach who was all about winning (and nothing else, again in direct conflict with the message Brand delivered years prior), hired another coach for basketball, quickly redid his deal to make him highly paid, pushed out the AD and brought in another one, built a state of the art hoops facility, along with ones for softball and baseball, paid the baseball guy much more than they've ever paid, announced capital campaigns for new facilities (wrestling, volleyball, and more football).
Does that sound like they've "turned down the volume on anything?
They paid a bunch of money for a bad athletic director (McNeeley), paid at the low end for DiNardo, fired him for a better guy in Hoeppner (who only took the job because they promised him they would enhance the facilities, which they did), hired another AD to shepherd the facilities expansion, paid very good money to hire a coach who was all about winning (and nothing else, again in direct conflict with the message Brand delivered years prior), hired another coach for basketball, quickly redid his deal to make him highly paid, pushed out the AD and brought in another one, built a state of the art hoops facility, along with ones for softball and baseball, paid the baseball guy much more than they've ever paid, announced capital campaigns for new facilities (wrestling, volleyball, and more football).
Does that sound like they've "turned down the volume on anything?
I apologize for my earlier comment. It was a very bad attempt at humor. Again, I apologize.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Objectively, RMK should have been let go for basketball reasons alone (thought that obviously would not have happened). The program was in a gradual decline long before RMK was fired. His record over the last seven years he was in Bloomington was 144-76 (65% wins), with one Sweet Sixteen appearance. Crean's record over the last four years? 93-45 (67% wins) with one Sweet Sixteen appearance.
First, the man is dead.
Let it go. Second, people need to stop using PC as an excuse to do anything they want. Brand did a lot of crappy things, but Knight also acted like a huge jackass.
Let it go. Second, people need to stop using PC as an excuse to do anything they want. Brand did a lot of crappy things, but Knight also acted like a huge jackass.
I'll never forgive Brand. And not for what he did, but how he did it...
The removal of Bob Knight (while I didn't like it at the time) probably had to happen. But Myles Brand completely fumbled it. He wanted to fire Bob Knight and use the event for his own gain and that's exactly what he did.
We all knew Bob Knight on zero tolerance probation wasn't going to work for long. It was Brand's way of building the justification to fire Knight. And that in itself is okay. Where Brand really becomes a scum-bag is what he did (and didn't do) next...
So this brilliant guy orchestrates the firing of a legendary coach and then has absolutely no succession plan??? Yea right...How could that be?
Well that wasn't exactly true, he did have a succession plan (his own). So instead of planning the succession of Bob Knight,and planning how IU will get through such a transition, Myles used the event and the notoriety he gained to immediately jump to the NCAA leaving the mess he made for someone else to clean up.
MYLES BRAND NEVER HAD ANY INTENTIONS OF DEALING WITH THE MESS HE MADE!
The removal of Bob Knight (while I didn't like it at the time) probably had to happen. But Myles Brand completely fumbled it. He wanted to fire Bob Knight and use the event for his own gain and that's exactly what he did.
We all knew Bob Knight on zero tolerance probation wasn't going to work for long. It was Brand's way of building the justification to fire Knight. And that in itself is okay. Where Brand really becomes a scum-bag is what he did (and didn't do) next...
So this brilliant guy orchestrates the firing of a legendary coach and then has absolutely no succession plan??? Yea right...How could that be?
Well that wasn't exactly true, he did have a succession plan (his own). So instead of planning the succession of Bob Knight,and planning how IU will get through such a transition, Myles used the event and the notoriety he gained to immediately jump to the NCAA leaving the mess he made for someone else to clean up.
MYLES BRAND NEVER HAD ANY INTENTIONS OF DEALING WITH THE MESS HE MADE!
Im an outsider...But this^^^ is what most outside of Indiana think of the situation. A bully coach, Followed by an inexperienced coach, followed by a cheater, followed by a coach in over his head. I hope Indiana gets it together. The tri state area (Ohio, KY, Ind) Would be a powerful area for basketball. UK, IND, UL, ND, OHIO STATE....
Yeah RMK "worked" them for sure Coug! Poor Ralph Floyd use to come....
over here to Ellettsville occasionally for lunch. I thought the food on the near west side was better than I realized he was just trying to escape Knight for an hour or two.
over here to Ellettsville occasionally for lunch. I thought the food on the near west side was better than I realized he was just trying to escape Knight for an hour or two.
Bingo! We have a winner! This program wont
Get back to where it was, until all the Knight lovers and haters are gone. It will be a whole generation, just like it will be at UCLA. Even though they have won one championship and done so-so under other coaches. Brand and the gutless board of trustees ruined IU Basketball. They sure could have handled it differently!
Get back to where it was, until all the Knight lovers and haters are gone. It will be a whole generation, just like it will be at UCLA. Even though they have won one championship and done so-so under other coaches. Brand and the gutless board of trustees ruined IU Basketball. They sure could have handled it differently!
He also did academic
damage as well. Not nice to talk
about the deceased but facts are facts.
Academic decline
damage as well. Not nice to talk
about the deceased but facts are facts.
Academic decline
I've often wondered what would have happened had the administration nipped Knight's antics in the bud. First time he was ever rude to the press or whatever - if the AD or President had made it clear that was unacceptable, would things have turned out the way they did? Ultimately, he became his own worst enemy.
Re: I'll never forgive Brand. And not for what he did, but how he did it...
get real, Miles didn't make that mess.
the mistake MB made was not firing Knight sooner, on a time frame of Brand's control., not Knight's.
it wasn't just the "hey Knight" thing that RMK pulled since being put on notice.
and as far as Knight's firing not being really really ugly, that was never going to happen, because Knight was never going to let it NOT be really really ugly.
ensuring things went really really ugly, was one of the things Knight did best.
and with Knight, not only did he make sure things went really really ugly, he made sure they stayed that way as long as he possibly could.
99 out of 100 coaches get fired sooner or later from a gig, it's the nature of the beast. and it's a kick in the gut to all of them.
most get away with far less, for far less time, than RMK did before being fired.
yet no one in history has handled it with less class.
get real, Miles didn't make that mess.
the mistake MB made was not firing Knight sooner, on a time frame of Brand's control., not Knight's.
it wasn't just the "hey Knight" thing that RMK pulled since being put on notice.
and as far as Knight's firing not being really really ugly, that was never going to happen, because Knight was never going to let it NOT be really really ugly.
ensuring things went really really ugly, was one of the things Knight did best.
and with Knight, not only did he make sure things went really really ugly, he made sure they stayed that way as long as he possibly could.
99 out of 100 coaches get fired sooner or later from a gig, it's the nature of the beast. and it's a kick in the gut to all of them.
most get away with far less, for far less time, than RMK did before being fired.
yet no one in history has handled it with less class.
No. Adam Herbert damaged IU athletics and academics
He's more responsible for damages to IU than Myles Brand.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
He's more responsible for damages to IU than Myles Brand.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Brand destroyed IU basketball.
Herbert was too PC.
McRobbie is an Aussie he doesn't care about American sports basketball or football.
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Your either a complete moron or your simply full of shit.
Knight gave a speech on campus to the students, fans and community immediately after the firing. He strongly urged everyone to keep supporting the program and not to resort to anything short of class.
You sir, are a lying con artist. Or possibly just stupid and believe anything your told.
I don’t agree. I lay the blame on the PC idiot alumni that supported by word and/or deed. They supported an opportunistic little shit against RMK a man who did nothing but good not only for IU basketball but for the university as a whole. How has that turned out for you that you gave RMK his PC comeuppance. This entire mess is their fault. Educated but clueless idiots that feel good about themselves by imposing clueless sanctions against someone or something. I hope these idiots have declared themselves non fans of IU b-ball considering the shit they poured over the rest of us.
There were three freshman on the 2002 championship game IU roster that weren’t recruited by RMK so don’t know where this idea comes from that he could no longer coach. If he had been there it could very well have been another banner.
It was many alumni and the PC press that poisoned Knight, IU basketball, and IU. Hope you break your arm patting yourselves on the back that showed that classless rube what it means to rub corrupt PC ideologues the wrong way. You suck.
If we had taken his advice we'd be Ball State. (I guess we all have to type in bold now.)
It is very strange that many of the anti RMK participants during that period, admin and players, came to such bad ends. Early deaths, prison, horrific car wrecks, etc.
CLaw is on the money here. It was reported that Greenspan wanted Beilein but Herbert wanted Sampson and pulled rank to get him. Also reported Herbert wanted a minority candidate. Herbert was incompetent; not for trying to hire a minority candidate but for selecting a coach with so much baggage. We paid a big price on many levels.
This has been talked about to death and honestly gets old but Knight caused his own down fall period. Once he went to zero tolerance it was over before it ever started. He was never ever going to survive under that and probably should have just resigned on his own earlier.
Brand sucked.
Arrogant little bureaucrat dweeb resume built while taking down the legend of Bob Knight to get all the way to NCAA headquarters. He's gone. Karma.
Arrogant little bureaucrat dweeb resume built while taking down the legend of Bob Knight to get all the way to NCAA headquarters. He's gone. Karma.
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Sorry but what you say makes no sense to me. Would most IU fans have fired him at that point-no. He didn’t break an acceptable code of behavior in the view of most fans. He broke acceptable code of behavior held by PC zealots. He refused to quit so how did he cause his own downfall.
There are a couple assistant coaches still around from that time that are owed a big helping of karma. Judas and Judas Jr.
He had been doing inappropriate things for years. The bottom line is he stopped winning at a high level so he was easier to cut loose. I honestly do not see how you think his behavior was acceptable? Throwing people in garbage cans, chokings kids, throwing chairs, throwing plants,etc? You think just PC zeolots thought that was not appropriate? I guess you are a RMK homer but I was at one point until I realized he was out of control
The 3 stooges...Mcrobbie, Fred, & Shoulders...have destroyed IU athletics. They need to be fired today.
I like it that RMK was his own man and did not give in to the PC BS. Sure he made mistakes, but the same PC people who hammered RMK, accept the cheaters today in college basketball. The PC camp is wrong in both cases. When I grew up coaches coached you, they verbally belittled you like a drill seargent, they threw balls at you hard if you didn't listen, they grabbed you by the arm and got your attention, they made you tougher, much tougher. You either wimped away and quit, or you fought back with every ounce in your body to prove your old coach wrong. Yes my coach was ex-military so I had very tough coaches who demanded you give maximum effort or you could run home to mommy.
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