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More disgusting behavior in the House

I hope the Farm Bill conference report is opposed as well. My reasons I'm sure are different than yours.
The bill misses out on key opportunities to reduce farm subsidies and to move Americans from welfare to work.
 
I hope the Farm Bill conference report is opposed as well. My reasons I'm sure are different than yours.
The bill misses out on key opportunities to reduce farm subsidies and to move Americans from welfare to work.

I have not dug into the farm bill. I simply disagree with the notion of unrelated provisions being thrown into bills.

To the best of my knowledge, I'm fully opposed to farmers being paid not to grow.
 
I have not dug into the farm bill. I simply disagree with the notion of unrelated provisions being thrown into bills.

To the best of my knowledge, I'm fully opposed to farmers being paid not to grow.
The conference report does not strengthen work requirements for able-bodied adults without dependents and does not include any meaningful or even minor subsidy reforms, such as Senator Grassley's actively engaged amendment or the House-passed provision to repeal EPA's WOTUS rule.
 
Well designed work requirements for food stamp recipients are essential to reduce poverty, government dependence and to improve the labor force.

I'm fairly certain that money is basically peanuts. I.e. not nearly enough to live on. Also, I believe some states have various requirements that require people to be in career offices looking for work 20-40 hours per week. They can't just stay at home and watch TV.
 
I'm fairly certain that money is basically peanuts. I.e. not nearly enough to live on. Also, I believe some states have various requirements that require people to be in career offices looking for work 20-40 hours per week. They can't just stay at home and watch TV.
With regards to SNAP, Congress should require able-bodied food stamp recipients without dependents to take a job, prepare for work, perform community service, or at least search for employment in exchange for taxpayer-funded assistance.
 
They already do.

The modern day “welfare queens” are the working poor. With the mega companies paying below living wages, this welfare is necessary for the working poor to survive.

If people are hell bent on cutting government expenses, I’d suggest that there are many other areas with much greater returns. Also, those cuts maybe won’t kill people.
 
I thought current law allowed for states to exempt 15 percent.
Not exactly. States earn exemptions based on 15% of their caseload, but that doesn't mean they get used. States that are under waiver (not subject to time limits because of unemployment or other factors) don't get to use the exemptions, and states that can use them use far fewer than they are entitled to. This is not a real problem that needs fixing.
 
Not exactly. States earn exemptions based on 15% of their caseload, but that doesn't mean they get used. States that are under waiver (not subject to time limits because of unemployment or other factors) don't get to use the exemptions, and states that can use them use far fewer than they are entitled to. This is not a real problem that needs fixing.
At the end of last year, 6 States and DC had a statewide waiver. 27 states had a partial waiver and over a 1000 counties were considered labor surplus areas. it appears the work requirements didn't pertain in some areas.
 
At the end of last year, 6 States and DC had a statewide waiver. 27 states had a partial waiver and over a 1000 counties were considered labor surplus areas. it appears the work requirements didn't pertain in some areas.
And despite 6 states having a statewide waiver, a full 19 states didn't hand out a single month of the 15% exemptions. Other states handed out a pittance. Indiana had 134K months available, and only handed out 16. Not 16K. 16.

Was the plan that got stripped from the farm bill even directed at the 15% exemptions? All I know about were the ridiculous attempts to pile time-consuming paperwork on recipients and punish them for honest error.
 
My understanding was able-bodied adults who receive cash, food, housing, and medical assistance would be required to work or prepare for work as a condition of receiving those government benefits.
 
My understanding was able-bodied adults who receive cash, food, housing, and medical assistance would be required to work or prepare for work as a condition of receiving those government benefits.
I don't think so. First of all, let's keep in mind that you were originally talking about able-bodied adults without dependents. That's key. Cash assistance isn't even available to them, and already has its own work requirements, anyway. I don't know much about housing assistance. The idea that we should be putting any sort of restrictions on medical assistance is just morally repugnant.

But the Republican push was specifically targeting SNAP, which already has work requirements for able-bodied adults without dependents. What the House passed was a more stringent version of these requirements, primarily regarding reporting (recipients would be required to prove their fulfillment of work requirements on a monthly basis) and really disgusting punitive responses to honest error (by taking away a year's worth of eligibility for people who made a mistake on their application).

I don't know where you are getting your information about 1) what welfare actually does, or 2) what the GOP was trying to do this year, but it doesn't seem to reflect reality.
 
First, I thought without dependents was understood. Secondly, you were right and I was wrong with regards to what was in the original house version. I had mistakenly thought there was more to it.
Sorry, around these parts, I can no longer tell if someone simply accepts something as a given, or if they leave it off because they are moving the goalpost. This forum has made me quite the cynic.

I appreciate that we could debate this issue on which we disagreed and come to a conclusion without being assholes to each other. Cheers.
 
With regards to SNAP, Congress should require able-bodied food stamp recipients without dependents to take a job, prepare for work, perform community service, or at least search for employment in exchange for taxpayer-funded assistance.
Should farmers be required to do all those things in exchange for their subsidies?
 
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I wish someone with knowledge of agriculture subsidies would weigh in. My understanding is that this idea that the government pays farmers not to grow crops is a myth, based on a law that was in force in the 1920's.
 
I wish someone with knowledge of agriculture subsidies would weigh in. My understanding is that this idea that the government pays farmers not to grow crops is a myth, based on a law that was in force in the 1920's.
I think "set-aside" subsidies were done away with in the '96 farm bill. Today's farm subsidies are largely written to benefit crop insurance providers. Farmers crop insurance premiums are subsidized by taxpayers, to private insurance providers. If losses are big enough, the Risk Management Agency (RMA is the government portion of this public/private partnership) is there to "help" those private insurance providers.
 
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I think "set-aside" subsidies were done away with in the '96 farm bill. Today's farm subsidies are largely written to benefit crop insurance providers. Farmers crop insurance premiums are subsidized by taxpayers, to private insurance providers. If losses are big enough, the Risk Management Agency (RMA is the government portion of this public/private partnership) is there to "help" those private insurance providers.
That's how I understand it, too. And, sure, because of how it works, some people are eligible even if they don't grow the crops that are being subsidized, but this is a side effect, rather than the intent of the program.
 
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That's how I understand it, too. And, sure, because of how it works, some people are eligible even if they don't grow the crops that are being subsidized, but this is a side effect, rather than the intent of the program.
You have to have "base acres", meaning a history of growing a specific crop, to be eligible for payments for that crop.

As I mentioned, it's more of a funnel to private insurance companies, than it is a subsidy to farmers. I appreciate having a safety net, but after that, I feel we would be better off without the help (Better off as farmers and a country).

I also wish our President would learn from the mistakes we've made in the past. Nixon had a soybean embargo against Japan which led to a great expansion of production in Brazil. Carter also held back wheat and corn from France which caused much of Europe to heavily subsidize their farmers. It's never a good idea to threaten another nations food supply. We never win. And if we build the wall, the American farmer and taxpayer will pay for it, one way or another.
 
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Should farmers be required to do all those things in exchange for their subsidies?
Yes.
The Farm Bill conference report failed to include Senator Grassley's actively engaged amendment which would have tightened eligibility requirements for farm subsidies by only allowing one farm manager to qualify.
 
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Not Denald account -- even he would have thought this would have crossed the line:



What the actual feck!!
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We have crossed the chasm -- where the real Donald Trump has passed the parody account.
 
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I hope the Farm Bill conference report is opposed as well. My reasons I'm sure are different than yours.
The bill misses out on key opportunities to reduce farm subsidies and to move Americans from welfare to work.
"Key opportunities to reduce farm subsidies" When farm bankruptcies and suicides are increasing (some articles use the word soaring to describe the situation), you see that as a key opportunity to reduce the 20-22% of the farm bill that actually goes to farm programs?
 
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That's how I understand it, too. And, sure, because of how it works, some people are eligible even if they don't grow the crops that are being subsidized, but this is a side effect, rather than the intent of the program.
You're correct on your assessment of the situation. The program payments to "not grow crops" was removed in the 95 farm bill. The commodity program that most grain farmers participate in each year has no acreage idling component to it. The program payments are based on the base history of a farm growing the crops (mainly corn, soybeans, and wheat in the Midwest) and then the annual payment eligibility is calculated on a county average yield and national average price for each commodity. Maybe simpler to say, a revenue calculation using the county average yield of each crop and national average price for each year is compared to the previous 5 year average. 2018 average county corn yield of 200 bushel per acre at a national average price of $3 is a $600 per acre revenue. That is compared to an Olympic average of the previous 5 year revenue calculations, and if it falls below 86% (farm bill statute) of the previous 5 year average, then payments are made to all farms in that county that have corn base acres, on 85% of their base history acres to be exact. The payments are dependent on county average yields each year and not based on each individual's yields on any given farm. This decoupling was done to make it simpler to administer (farmers don't have to supply their yield information to USDA each year), and the payments are then not subject to World Trade Organization rules and limitations. The decoupling of payments from what farmers are actually planting does result in some small farms that have base acre history in receiving payments when they left the farm idle or planted to hay/pasture, but apparently that option is being removed from the 2018 farm bill.

The Conservation Reserve (CRP or 10 year program as some call it) does take highly erodible land out of production, and the participant receives an annual rental payment for 10-15 years to leave the land idle and establish a grass or sometimes tree cover. The national cap on this program has waivered from 23-27 million acres through the years, but this program does technically pay for taking land out of production and providing soil conservation and water quality on top of wildlife habitat. Many of these contracts have expired out of the 10 year contracts (some were in 20 years), and have come back into crop production, or been converted to hay or pasture use. Much of this land should have never been cropped to begin with based on the steep slopes and erosion that occurred on this type of land.
 
I wish someone with knowledge of agriculture subsidies would weigh in. My understanding is that this idea that the government pays farmers not to grow crops is a myth, based on a law that was in force in the 1920's.

There’s only one program that I am aware of that pays farmers not to farm. The land involved generally is rough hilly farm ground not prone great farming anyway. The hope is that the CRP program promotes conservation of the land so it can be used by wild life and other activities. The payments aren’t enough to get wealthy off of. I have one client with appoximately 150 acres or more in the program. His payment is less that $15,000 I think. He’s spending all of it seeding and making it great for deer, birds and other wildlife.

Most of the farm programs are set up to look at the price farmers are getting for their crops and provide a subsidy if the market price isn’t adeqate to reasonably make a minimum farm profit. With the current prices this money becomes essential to just pay input bills.

Unfortunately many farmers make business decisions based solely on taxes not economics. They’re generally in a state of cash flow problems.
 
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There’s only one program that I am aware of that pays farmers not to farm. The land involved generally is rough hilly farm ground not prone great farming anyway. The hope is that the CRP program promotes conservation of the land so it can be used by wild life and other activities. The payments aren’t enough to get wealthy off of. I have one client with appoximately 150 acres or more in the program. His payment is less that $15,000 I think. He’s spending all of it seeding and making it great for deer, birds and other wildlife.

Most of the farm programs are set up to look at the price farmers are getting for their crops and provide a subsidy if the market price isn’t adeqate to reasonably make a minimum farm profit. With the current prices this money becomes essential to just pay input bills.

Unfortunately many farmers make business decisions based solely on taxes not economics. They’re generally in a state of cash flow problems.
And with those cashflow problems, 179 depreciation (while not paying off the corresponding assets/debt), rising interest rates are not going help. It could get ugly. Almost a perfect shitstorm.
 
And with those cashflow problems, 179 depreciation (while not paying off the corresponding assets/debt), rising interest rates are not going help. It could get ugly. Almost a perfect shitstorm.

You’re right a shitstorm is coming. Adding to the shitstorm in our community is farm land has been selling for $15,000 per acre and more. A crash is coming in farm real estate.

Farmers and businesses don’t have to use sec 179 expensing with its limitations. Bonus depreciation allows them to write off new and used equipment with no limit except taxable income. Using debt to finance the immediate expense is shortsighted. Unfortunately I have a client that has used his operating loan to finance these equipment purchases the last two years. The bank has figured it out and they’re in serious distress. I preach to clients about the problem they’re creating with expensing equipment financed with debt. Some listen, many don’t.

Right now farmers in our community are panicking. Their subsidies are going to be held up by the shut down.
 
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