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More backwards COVID policy? Nebraska, Sweden, somewhere else???

New York is still doing a ton of testing, and their numbers aren't booming, they are doing the opposite.

Sure, when the disease is under total control or eradicated, you won't be doing much testing. Such is the case in New Zealand and South Korea, among other places. The USA has passed them in testing simply because our buffoninsh approach to this disease DID NOT WORK, while their approach did work

This baloney about the testing being the cause for the higher number of cases is just that: BALONEY.

It's the same srupid logic as making sure that your girlfriend doesn't take a preganancy test, so that she therefore won't become pregnant.

Does this sink in, even just a little?

it’s not total baloney, the more testing the more cases, it’s just simple math. Not saying it’s the only reason case numbers might go up but if you’re strictly looking at volume of cases it’s certainly a reason that number may rise

pregnancy will bare itself out, with our without a test. Covid has a 50% chance of going totally undetected without a test, so those two examples don’t jive
 
How many people at the pool party were wearing masks?
My estimation: 0%
How many people at the pool party were practicing social distancing?
My estimation: 0%

How many people at a typical protest were wearing masks?
My estimation: it seems to vary widely. Never 0%, never 100%. On average I'd say 75%.
How many people at a typical protest were practicing social distancing?
My estimation: it seems to vary widely. Never 0%, never 100%. On average I'd say 25%.

Some mask wearing and some social distancing is better than none. Your claim that the protests are equally dangerous to the Ozarks pool party in terms of potential spread is being intellectually dishonest. You may have a point, though, if you compare 10 protests to 1 pool party.

My point is that the virus doesn’t factor in the righteousness of the gathering. Yes some protesters were wearing masks and I assume some did social distance. However, like you said, it was not close to 100% and there were thousands of protesters across the country. You have to assume these events will lead to increased cases. Just by the numbers alone.
 
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I used to live in Vegas many years ago and spent virtually all my time in casinos. So I think this innovative policy from Ceasars exemplifies the type of establishment I would prefer to patronize...

"LAS VEGAS – Wearing a mask inside a Caesars Entertainment casino?

Someone from the company may tap you on the shoulder and slip you $20 to gamble.

The operator of five reopened hotel-casinos on The Strip has launched the promotion to encourage guests to wear masks and prevent the spread of COVID-19.

Over the weekend, a promotions team walked through Caesars Palace, Paris, Flamingo, The Linq and Harrah's to find people wearing masks while gambling or strolling the casino floor. All told, 375 guests got $7,500.

The promotion applies only to Caesars Rewards members wearing masks, but anyone can sign up for a chance to get the free money, according to the Reno Gazette Journal, which is part of the USA TODAY Network."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/las-vegas-casino-company-paying-210733720.html

The even better news is that the situation is probably temporary. The culinary union is demanding that masks be mandated...

"Nevada gamblers are now required to wear face masks at table games that have no barriers, an update that came less than two weeks after casinos opened in Nevada following a shutdown that lasted almost three months.

But the Silver State’s most powerful labor union is calling for state leaders to require visitors to wear masks in all public spaces at hotel-casinos to protect workers.

"Workers have fears," Culinary Union Secretary-Treasurer Geoconda Argüello-Kline said Monday.

Argüello-Kline demanded that Nevada officials follow the lead of California, where Gov. Gavin Newsom announced last week that citizens now must cover their mouths and noses in most indoor settings and outdoors when social distancing isn't possible.

“The numbers are not going down," Argüello-Kline said. "They’re going up."

that environment isn’t exactly conducive to mask wearing
 
New York is still doing a ton of testing, and their numbers aren't booming, they are doing the opposite.

Sure, when the disease is under total control or eradicated, you won't be doing much testing. Such is the case in New Zealand and South Korea, among other places. The USA has passed them in testing simply because our buffoninsh approach to this disease DID NOT WORK, while their approach did work

This baloney about the testing being the cause for the higher number of cases is just that: BALONEY.

It's the same srupid logic as making sure that your girlfriend doesn't take a preganancy test, so that she therefore won't become pregnant.

Does this sink in, even just a little?


You're absolutely right. The Trumpian level of stupidity claiming the "problem" is increased testing is beyond ludicrous. Texas hospitalizations have been increasing for 13 straight days, and people in AZ where cases are also spiking are having to sit and wait in their cars for 13 hrs to get tested at mobile testing sites. Along with FL, these are the 3 hottest hot spots for new infections...

These states aren't testing at higher efficiency rates or greater numbers than other states testing the same amount or even more on a daily basis. They are just seeing more positive results because their states are experiencing more infections. Anyone surprised the states faring the worst are where Lucey, DeSantis, and Abbott malpractice governing?
 
You're absolutely right. The Trumpian level of stupidity claiming the "problem" is increased testing is beyond ludicrous. Texas hospitalizations have been increasing for 13 straight days, and people in AZ where cases are also spiking are having to sit and wait in their cars for 13 hrs to get tested at mobile testing sites. Along with FL, these are the 3 hottest hot spots for new infections...

These states aren't testing at higher efficiency rates or greater numbers than other states testing the same amount or even more on a daily basis. They are just seeing more positive results because their states are experiencing more infections. Anyone surprised the states faring the worst are where Lucey, DeSantis, and Abbott malpractice governing?

I got tested 30 minutes after I scheduled it
 
that environment isn’t exactly conducive to mask wearing

My understanding is that if you're sitting at a table without barriers in place you already have to wear one. The Union represents dealers as well, so I'm guessing dealers are a large contingent of the people urging gamblers to wear masks. I used to be a daily fixture among the crowd of runners and other gamblers in the Riviera and Stardust sportsbooks years ago. Guessing wearing a mask was an inconvenience we'd have been willing to put up with...
 
it’s not total baloney, the more testing the more cases, it’s just simple math. Not saying it’s the only reason case numbers might go up but if you’re strictly looking at volume of cases it’s certainly a reason that number may rise

pregnancy will bare itself out, with our without a test. Covid has a 50% chance of going totally undetected without a test, so those two examples don’t jive

important corrections provided

The more testing the more cases you know to exist. Testing did not make someone have the virus.

Pregnancy will bare itself out, with our without a test. Covid has a 50% chance of going totally undetected without a test, but asymptomatic people can & will spread the disease, so asymptomatic spread will also bare itself out, so those two examples jive extremely well.
 
My understanding is that if you're sitting at a table without barriers in place you already have to wear one. The Union represents dealers as well, so I'm guessing dealers are a large contingent of the people urging gamblers to wear masks. I used to be a daily fixture among the crowd of runners and other gamblers in the Riviera and Stardust sportsbooks years ago. Guessing wearing a mask was an inconvenience we'd have been willing to put up with...

once I’m hammered I’d forget all about that thing
 
important corrections provided

The more testing the more cases you know to exist. Testing did not make someone have the virus.

Pregnancy will bare itself out, with our without a test. Covid has a 50% chance of going totally undetected without a test, but asymptomatic people can & will spread the disease, so asymptomatic spread will also bare itself out, so those two examples jive extremely well.

First point was good

second wasn’t, pregnancy isn’t contagious
 
I got tested 30 minutes after I scheduled it

Do you live in Arizona? I'm just going by the video report on the news last night which interviewed people in Maricopa Co (where cases are spiking) who said they had waited in huge lines of cars for 13 hrs to be tested...

"Arizona Governor Doug Ducey's office is responding to long COVID-19 testing wait times over the weekend by saying they are "similarly frustrated" to see 10 plus hour wait times in the west Valley.

Because of that, a spokesperson for the governor’s office tells ABC15 that their office and the Department of Health Services is reaching out to community partners and leaders to identify additional collection sites in this community.

The free event on Saturday took place at Desert West Park and Sports Complex in Phoenix on Saturday.

The private testing blitz was put on by Equality Health in partnership with the city of Phoenix, Sonora Quest Laboratories and Equality Care Center.

Last week, the governor said in his COVID-19 press conference that testing allows "Arizona to make better, real time decisions."

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-p...to-long-testing-wait-times-in-the-west-valley

Reports from the event indicated about 1000 people were tested, it was supposed to go from 6 am-11 am but had to be extended to late afternoon, and it was largely comprised of Latinos.

"The long line of cars over the weekend forced hundreds of people to sit in the heat with no access to bathrooms, food, or water. Many of the cars had four to five family members in them because of multi-generational households."
 
Do you live in Arizona? I'm just going by the video report on the news last night which interviewed people in Maricopa Co (where cases are spiking) who said they had waited in huge lines of cars for 13 hrs to be tested...

"Arizona Governor Doug Ducey's office is responding to long COVID-19 testing wait times over the weekend by saying they are "similarly frustrated" to see 10 plus hour wait times in the west Valley.

Because of that, a spokesperson for the governor’s office tells ABC15 that their office and the Department of Health Services is reaching out to community partners and leaders to identify additional collection sites in this community.

The free event on Saturday took place at Desert West Park and Sports Complex in Phoenix on Saturday.

The private testing blitz was put on by Equality Health in partnership with the city of Phoenix, Sonora Quest Laboratories and Equality Care Center.

Last week, the governor said in his COVID-19 press conference that testing allows "Arizona to make better, real time decisions."

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-p...to-long-testing-wait-times-in-the-west-valley

Reports from the event indicated about 1000 people were tested, it was supposed to go from 6 am-11 am but had to be extended to late afternoon, and it was largely comprised of Latinos.

"The long line of cars over the weekend forced hundreds of people to sit in the heat with no access to bathrooms, food, or water. Many of the cars had four to five family members in them because of multi-generational households."

whats your wpm?

are you on a phone?

I just said that because 30 minute vs 13 hours is a huge difference
 
once I’m hammered I’d forget all about that thing

It was the age of beepers, and my job was to travel from casino to casino looking for and calling in line changes. Basically walked up and down the strip each day doing that and making plays when instructed to. People I worked for were mainly middling games, and in those days the lines could be radically different from one book to the next because there wasn't computerized centralization. Or for that matter computers.

I was working during the day before the games tipped, so getting drunk was not really an option. After work when I was watching games and no longer on the clock, then getting drunk was a possibility. But I've never been a heavy drinker, so it was not really an issue. I always had my own action on the night's games in addition to all the bets I made for the guys I worked for, so hanging out in sportsbooks was just basically what I did.
 
link please

"And hospitals report that incoming coronavirus patients tend to be younger and healthier, requiring shorter stays or only outpatient care.

“The severity of what we are getting has declined,” said Gino Santorio, chief executive officer of Broward Health, the four-hospital system that serves most of Broward County. “The average length of stay is six days versus 10. Initially, Broward Health had the really sick COVID patients, those from nursing homes, and cruise ships. Now, that has changed, as the demographics have shifted.”

“The number that need to be admitted, the percentage with symptoms, has declined,” he said. “The number we admit that need to be in ICU and ventilated is declining. We are able to get them out of the hospital in a shorter time period than a few months ago.”

But experts say the decrease in age of the typical infected person is not simply a function of more widespread testing. They say it reflects the disease’s attack on a wider group of people, as elderly people stay home and younger people head back into restaurants, offices, and gyms. Although nursing home outbreaks have been particularly deadly, they have by nature been largely confined within the walls of their institutions. As younger people contract their illness, they will spread it more easily and more widely."

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/corona...0200620-zdbyrk6h25cwxak5h74cchirke-story.html
 
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"And hospitals report that incoming coronavirus patients tend to be younger and healthier, requiring shorter stays or only outpatient care.

“The severity of what we are getting has declined,” said Gino Santorio, chief executive officer of Broward Health, the four-hospital system that serves most of Broward County. “The average length of stay is six days versus 10. Initially, Broward Health had the really sick COVID patients, those from nursing homes, and cruise ships. Now, that has changed, as the demographics have shifted.”

“The number that need to be admitted, the percentage with symptoms, has declined,” he said. “The number we admit that need to be in ICU and ventilated is declining. We are able to get them out of the hospital in a shorter time period than a few months ago.”

But experts say the decrease in age of the typical infected person is not simply a function of more widespread testing. They say it reflects the disease’s attack on a wider group of people, as elderly people stay home and younger people head back into restaurants, offices, and gyms. Although nursing home outbreaks have been particularly deadly, they have by nature been largely confined within the walls of their institutions. As younger people contract their illness, they will spread it more easily and more widely."

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/corona...0200620-zdbyrk6h25cwxak5h74cchirke-story.html

non senior citizens have always made up the largest group infected, it's just that youngers only started getting tested in any numbers fairly recently, so average age of test positives is a function of the population getting tested, not a function of the age of infected changing any.

and i think we need a serious national discussion on if youngers getting infected, thus creating a large herd immunity population that isn't much at risk from the virus, isn't a good thing rather than a bad thing.

and the youngers are stopping with the whole distancing thing on their own, whether anyone likes it or not.

they know they're basically immune, even if the media ignores that reality.

you can't stop them, so better to plan around that reality.

and the younger one gets it the better, so better a 20 yr old gets it now for the first time rather than when they are 30 or 40 or 50.

that said, the olders and the youngers do need to keep separated.

the youngers are going to get it, deal with it, no one can stop them, so olders need to steer clear of them, and they of olders.

any plan that doesn't recognize and account for the different universes the different age groups now compile, is both insane and a guaranteed disaster.

and olders need to grasp that they can't ask youngers to give up their normal lives indefinitely, so they can hopefully more safely interact with olders till a miracle vaccine comes along that will take yrs or decades or never come.
 
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non senior citizens have always made up the largest group infected, it's just that youngers only started getting tested in any numbers fairly recently, so average age of test positives is a function of the population getting tested, not a function of the age of infected changing any.

and i think we need a serious national discussion on if youngers getting infected, thus creating a large herd immunity population that isn't much at risk from the virus, isn't a good thing rather than a bad thing.

and the youngers are stopping with the whole distancing thing on their own, whether anyone likes it or not.

they know they're basically immune, even if the media ignores that reality.

you can't stop them, so better to plan around that reality.

and the younger one gets it the better, so better a 20 yr old gets it now for the first time rather than when they are 30 or 40 or 50.

that said, the olders and the youngers do need to keep separated.

the youngers are going to get it, deal with it, no one can stop them, so olders need to steer clear of them, and they of olders.

any plan that doesn't recognize and account for the different universes the different age groups now compile, is both insane and a guaranteed disaster.

and olders need to grasp that they can't ask youngers to give up their normal lives indefinitely, so they can hopefully more safely interact with olders till a miracle vaccine comes along that will take yrs or decades or never come.

last paragraph is on point
 
important corrections provided

The more testing the more cases you know to exist. Testing did not make someone have the virus.

Pregnancy will bare itself out, with our without a test. Covid has a 50% chance of going totally undetected without a test, but asymptomatic people can & will spread the disease, so asymptomatic spread will also bare itself out, so those two examples jive extremely well.

What they are doing is double testing folks now within a two week span. The article I posted about the asymptomatics shedding the virus longer than presymptos or the symptos.
The reality is that we will need to test (then trace & isolate) everyone once every three weeks to a month going forward if a sense of control is to be developed.
I highly doubt if it can be eradicated even in NZ. It will be a whack a mole scenario. Everyone will just need rapid response to teams.
 
Complaining about this is like complaining about the government’s response to any other natural disaster

it’s never perfect

Mother Nature wins, deal with it
 
non senior citizens have always made up the largest group infected, it's just that youngers only started getting tested in any numbers fairly recently, so average age of test positives is a function of the population getting tested, not a function of the age of infected changing any.

and i think we need a serious national discussion on if youngers getting infected, thus creating a large herd immunity population that isn't much at risk from the virus, isn't a good thing rather than a bad thing.

and the youngers are stopping with the whole distancing thing on their own, whether anyone likes it or not.

they know they're basically immune, even if the media ignores that reality.

you can't stop them, so better to plan around that reality.

and the younger one gets it the better, so better a 20 yr old gets it now for the first time rather than when they are 30 or 40 or 50.

that said, the olders and the youngers do need to keep separated.

the youngers are going to get it, deal with it, no one can stop them, so olders need to steer clear of them, and they of olders.

any plan that doesn't recognize and account for the different universes the different age groups now compile, is both insane and a guaranteed disaster.

and olders need to grasp that they can't ask youngers to give up their normal lives indefinitely, so they can hopefully more safely interact with olders till a miracle vaccine comes along that will take yrs or decades or never come.

Except the concept of "herd immunity" is far from settled. That was the policy that Sweden initially tried to implement, by refusing to close down and just basically allowing people to fend for themselves...

But that hasn't been what's happened. Death rates have exceeded any expectations and far exceed the numbers in neighboring countries like Norway, Denmark, and Finland... And antibody development has been far lower than what they expected/ planned on...

  • "Anders Tegnell, the country's chief epidemiologist, admitted that fewer people had developed antibodies than health authorities had predicted.
  • In April, he told the Financial Times that he expected 40% of people in Stockholm, the capital, to be immune to Covid-19 by the end of May."
If those numbers had been met, then the ultimate goal of 60% and partial herd immunity of the entire population would be within reach. But figures from late May show only 6.1% of Sweden's population has developed antibodies. Meanwhile, Sweden has had over 5,000 deaths, and the death rate per 100,000 (36) is considerably higher than the US (27) and Denmark (9)...

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hopes-fade-for-swedens-herd-immunity-experiment-2020-6
 
Except the concept of "herd immunity" is far from settled. That was the policy that Sweden initially tried to implement, by refusing to close down and just basically allowing people to fend for themselves...

But that hasn't been what's happened. Death rates have exceeded any expectations and far exceed the numbers in neighboring countries like Norway, Denmark, and Finland... And antibody development has been far lower than what they expected/ planned on...

  • "Anders Tegnell, the country's chief epidemiologist, admitted that fewer people had developed antibodies than health authorities had predicted.
  • In April, he told the Financial Times that he expected 40% of people in Stockholm, the capital, to be immune to Covid-19 by the end of May."
If those numbers had been met, then the ultimate goal of 60% and partial herd immunity of the entire population would be within reach. But figures from late May show only 6.1% of Sweden's population has developed antibodies. Meanwhile, Sweden has had over 5,000 deaths, and the death rate per 100,000 (36) is considerably higher than the US (27) and Denmark (9)...

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hopes-fade-for-swedens-herd-immunity-experiment-2020-6

I think I posted something about the fallacy of herd immunity earlier. The 60% target is only an estimation. Some other diseases may require up to 80%.
The estimates are like maybe 10-20% of the various countries are infected only at max and yet the death rates are already pretty high and unsustainable but socially and politically.
 
I think I posted something about the fallacy of herd immunity earlier. The 60% target is only an estimation. Some other diseases may require up to 80%.
The estimates are like maybe 10-20% of the various countries are infected only at max and yet the death rates are already pretty high and unsustainable but socially and politically.

IF herd immunity is even possible, it is not for the common cold.
 
IF herd immunity is even possible, it is not for the common cold.

Plus there is an EU study that has indicated that immunity may only be temporary:
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/immune-responses

There is just too many moving parts with this herd immunity concept. Everyone is looking for a silver bullet solution when the countries that have been able to control or limit the impact of Covid have all done so with a multitude of small measures. These silver bullet solutions reek of political expediency or intentional re-directions.
 
She may be referencing this.

she said "hospitalized", not tested positive.

more youngers are testing positive now, because previously youngers weren't being tested at all.

they have no doubt always been more likely to acquire it, due to their being far more social and interacting with more people on a regular basis.

you notice she still hasn't provided a link.
 
Except the concept of "herd immunity" is far from settled. That was the policy that Sweden initially tried to implement, by refusing to close down and just basically allowing people to fend for themselves...

But that hasn't been what's happened. Death rates have exceeded any expectations and far exceed the numbers in neighboring countries like Norway, Denmark, and Finland... And antibody development has been far lower than what they expected/ planned on...

  • "Anders Tegnell, the country's chief epidemiologist, admitted that fewer people had developed antibodies than health authorities had predicted.
  • In April, he told the Financial Times that he expected 40% of people in Stockholm, the capital, to be immune to Covid-19 by the end of May."
If those numbers had been met, then the ultimate goal of 60% and partial herd immunity of the entire population would be within reach. But figures from late May show only 6.1% of Sweden's population has developed antibodies. Meanwhile, Sweden has had over 5,000 deaths, and the death rate per 100,000 (36) is considerably higher than the US (27) and Denmark (9)...

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hopes-fade-for-swedens-herd-immunity-experiment-2020-6

Sweden was an idiot in doing it as a one plan for all ages strategy.

if staying open the whole time, they needed to separate out the olders first, and not include olders in that strategy.

i'm guessing their age based stats mirror ours, and they don't have many younger deaths either relatively speaking.


that said, good chance getting it will not make one immune for life.

i think what possibly will happen, is the body will be better prepared to deal with it in subsequent acquisitions.

a 20 yr old today possibly will have had it multiple times by the time they are 40.

a 7 yr old, multiple times by the time they are 20.

time will tell how long immunity does last, and if people's immune systems as a whole do deal with it better in subsequent infections, but likely the older and more health challenged will still be more at risk of serious effects, even if not as at risk as olders are now who have never had it.

but we already know that youngers are basically immune from serious effects even now on the first go round, and olders aren't, and we need a strategy that takes that reality into account rather than one that pretends that reality isn't what it is, and doesn't take that reality into account. (like we and Sweden did).

843 US covid deaths total as of 6/17/2020 for those under 35,

2623 total for those under 45 yrs old,

and those numbers include all those under 35 or 45 who had pre existing health conditions, so possible those who didn't have pre existing conditions fared even better.

out of 103,339 total deaths for all ages. (yes, the CDC's numbers do lag behind a little, but the ratios are what matters in this discussion).

to not take such blatant differences in how covid affects olders vs youngers into account when planing going forward, would be beyond insane.

to not have a plan B while waiting for a miracle cure or treatment, would also be insane. (and i have more faith in an effective treatment being found, than a permanent safe vaccine).

in the mean time, we can't ask youngers who are effectively immune to give up their lives forever to protect the olders.

and youngers aren't standing for it now, but going back to normal life whether olders like it or not.

thus we need to separate the olders and youngers, at work and at play.

not a good plan, just better than the others.



on a side note, though an old fart, if i test positive for antibodies with a reliable test, i think it will affect how i live life going forward, even i do have a chance for re infection.
 
she said "hospitalized", not tested positive.

more youngers are testing positive now, because previously youngers weren't being tested at all.

they have no doubt always been more likely to acquire it, due to their being far more social and interacting with more people on a regular basis.

you notice she still hasn't provided a link.
She’s on vacation with very spotty internet in the woods.
 
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Florida sets a new one day record, with >5,500 new cases

A day after Gov. Ron DeSantis again refused to order people to wear masks to curb the spread of the deadly coronavirus, the state tallied a record-setting number of new cases on Wednesday with 5,511 people testing positive for COVID-19.

so.
much.
winning!

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/...wSH4_jPuz4AFidFEY5lbCgJhR0_jYOeRuym2lDPL7IHDE
Its ridiculous. Wearing a mask can do so much. I just want us to go back to normal but some of these states are out of control.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They were talking about hospitalizations and how they are seeing more and more serious cases among the younger population, although there is messaging that suggests that most of these younger individuals are asymptomatic," Rovito said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nothing more serious than "asymptomatic".

the article didn't say anything even remotely close to what you implied it said.

can we not even have a non biased, non partisan, no trolling, conversation on Covid.
 
Last edited:
Florida sets a new one day record, with >5,500 new cases

A day after Gov. Ron DeSantis again refused to order people to wear masks to curb the spread of the deadly coronavirus, the state tallied a record-setting number of new cases on Wednesday with 5,511 people testing positive for COVID-19.

so.
much.
winning!

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/...wSH4_jPuz4AFidFEY5lbCgJhR0_jYOeRuym2lDPL7IHDE

Its ridiculous and embarrassing. No country in the world has politicised mask-wearing except in the States and other than the president of Brazil.

It only goes to show how easily manipulated people are, even to go against the best healthcare advice/interest.
 
Its ridiculous and embarrassing. No country in the world has politicised mask-wearing except in the States and other than the president of Brazil.

It only goes to show how easily manipulated people are, even to go against the best healthcare advice/interest.

This ain’t going anywhere might as well get it over with

I’ve been tested twice and one anti body test, genuinely disappointed I tested negative both times with no antibodies
 
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