"Love child Love child never quite as good......"
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That's been a topic of discussion by hiearchy of the
churches since the beginning of the religion. (ie when it was litigated into being by the Romans) So your statment about "I've NEVER encountered another Christian who believes that" is asinine.
It's meaning originally read by the Jewish, was never a concern because well, they were Jewish!! When the Romans made it their state religion they had to explain that damn passage to people who were NOT Jewish and rationalized and justified it ..
I mean com'n - why would any Roman worship a god that would only let Jews in. Unless they just accept him to be a racist..
This post was edited on 12/19 1:24 PM by BIODTL
churches since the beginning of the religion. (ie when it was litigated into being by the Romans) So your statment about "I've NEVER encountered another Christian who believes that" is asinine.
It's meaning originally read by the Jewish, was never a concern because well, they were Jewish!! When the Romans made it their state religion they had to explain that damn passage to people who were NOT Jewish and rationalized and justified it ..
I mean com'n - why would any Roman worship a god that would only let Jews in. Unless they just accept him to be a racist..
This post was edited on 12/19 1:24 PM by BIODTL
Then I said that wrong.
It wasn't just that she didn't go down, and I dont know that for true or not, its that he has mentioned she was uppity or frigid or something of the like.
It wasn't just that she didn't go down, and I dont know that for true or not, its that he has mentioned she was uppity or frigid or something of the like.
You make it hard to talk to you when you say things you know to be false.
And when someone says something about it, you reply with, "Oh I know that but I was just making the point ...."
Because surely you know that Christ came for the Jews first then the Gentiles. And no amount of Roman political influence changes that fact. And again, you are talking about Revelation. Where it should not be taken literally EVER but even if you do, there are 2 passages where the other passage talk about another multitude from all nations too plentiful to count.
And when someone says something about it, you reply with, "Oh I know that but I was just making the point ...."
Because surely you know that Christ came for the Jews first then the Gentiles. And no amount of Roman political influence changes that fact. And again, you are talking about Revelation. Where it should not be taken literally EVER but even if you do, there are 2 passages where the other passage talk about another multitude from all nations too plentiful to count.
Of course you are allowed your own beliefs.
You just hold on pretty tight about Christianity for someone who appears to be fairly open minded. If people talked about Judaism would you care as much? Just saying.
You just hold on pretty tight about Christianity for someone who appears to be fairly open minded. If people talked about Judaism would you care as much? Just saying.
Allah and Yahweh are the same god in both religions
the god of Abraham, who is also the first prophet in the Koran. He is a peaceful god, unless he gets pissed then he destroys the world only to feel bad about it later ... what a drama queen!
I've read parts of it long ago and have had discussion with a friend of mine who is Islamic most of what I know (which is very little) comes from him....
the god of Abraham, who is also the first prophet in the Koran. He is a peaceful god, unless he gets pissed then he destroys the world only to feel bad about it later ... what a drama queen!
I've read parts of it long ago and have had discussion with a friend of mine who is Islamic most of what I know (which is very little) comes from him....
Judaism is a very strong religion. I have many Jewish
friends and grew up with a Jewish family. I've never felt to be "wrong" when discussing faith with them.
They don't thump, and they certainly don't condescend by making statements like "I feel sad for you" what a crock of shit!! LMAO! The pompous audacity and ignorance is unbelievable..
Plus, it's origin wasn't political... it was a religion of slaves for giving them hope, not a religion of the state, meant to control the masses.
The structure and importance that they put on family alone - and how the people of that faith act - makes it exponentially a far better religion than Christianity.
I applaud their faith though I believe it too to be a myth.
friends and grew up with a Jewish family. I've never felt to be "wrong" when discussing faith with them.
They don't thump, and they certainly don't condescend by making statements like "I feel sad for you" what a crock of shit!! LMAO! The pompous audacity and ignorance is unbelievable..
Plus, it's origin wasn't political... it was a religion of slaves for giving them hope, not a religion of the state, meant to control the masses.
The structure and importance that they put on family alone - and how the people of that faith act - makes it exponentially a far better religion than Christianity.
I applaud their faith though I believe it too to be a myth.
Oh the conversations/ discussions we could have
The OTF isn't the place for me though. People feeling genuinely sad for you when you don't agree with their position/ beliefs is indeed a crock of shit. It's like saying I support the death penalty and you don't...I feel sorry for you.
Regardless faith is just that believing without seeing. I'm not going to say you are wrong because you happen to have faith that there is nothing to believe in but I would probably rationally explain mine while listening to yours.
The OTF isn't the place for me though. People feeling genuinely sad for you when you don't agree with their position/ beliefs is indeed a crock of shit. It's like saying I support the death penalty and you don't...I feel sorry for you.
Regardless faith is just that believing without seeing. I'm not going to say you are wrong because you happen to have faith that there is nothing to believe in but I would probably rationally explain mine while listening to yours.
Rome adapted to Christianity
a) because that's what the Romans did. Throughout the majority of their reign they adopted the religions of those they conquered, entertain every new idea and god. The apostle Paul called them too superstitious, accepting so many beliefs they believed none.
b) Adopting Christianity was a move based not on the needs the Christianity, which had been expanding exponentially, but on Rome desire to maintain power. The sentiment was to unify a fractured Roman empire under single ideology. Christianity was disruptive and unmanageable to Rome (and still is based on your visceral stance). It was dividing the Empire. Despite the executions, the teachings of Christ flourished.
Constantine conversion may have been true and MAYBE he thought he was helping God but the reality is God does not need the states help. Church and state should not mix -- not for the sake of the State, but the Church. Where religion has temporal power, it ceases to be "religious". Where a church has the ability to "influence" by force, faith (which is what worship of God is) dies. It's bad idea to co-op God to justify a cause, whether it be the Gulf War, Civil War or "Holy" War.
This post was edited on 12/19 3:50 PM by raar2
a) because that's what the Romans did. Throughout the majority of their reign they adopted the religions of those they conquered, entertain every new idea and god. The apostle Paul called them too superstitious, accepting so many beliefs they believed none.
b) Adopting Christianity was a move based not on the needs the Christianity, which had been expanding exponentially, but on Rome desire to maintain power. The sentiment was to unify a fractured Roman empire under single ideology. Christianity was disruptive and unmanageable to Rome (and still is based on your visceral stance). It was dividing the Empire. Despite the executions, the teachings of Christ flourished.
Constantine conversion may have been true and MAYBE he thought he was helping God but the reality is God does not need the states help. Church and state should not mix -- not for the sake of the State, but the Church. Where religion has temporal power, it ceases to be "religious". Where a church has the ability to "influence" by force, faith (which is what worship of God is) dies. It's bad idea to co-op God to justify a cause, whether it be the Gulf War, Civil War or "Holy" War.
This post was edited on 12/19 3:50 PM by raar2
And cavemen would think you're stupid
because you don't know how to skin a mastodon!
And they would look at me with serious apprehension and questioning of my sanity and mental capability if I tried to explain computer basics to them..
This post was edited on 12/19 2:08 PM by BIODTL
because you don't know how to skin a mastodon!
And they would look at me with serious apprehension and questioning of my sanity and mental capability if I tried to explain computer basics to them..
This post was edited on 12/19 2:08 PM by BIODTL
Not C$, but.......
I just want to add my two cents here, and I realize that you will feel that I have grossly overvalued my opinion and beliefs.
I grew up going to a Christian church and was quite active and had a strong belief. Near the end of high school, I got interested in things that conflicted with my beliefs and started doing things that I believed to be wrong.
Ultimately, to assuage my guilt, I stopped believing those things I had previously. I never became an athiest, but i certainly had a healthy skepticism about any Higher Power. I adopted the old "religion is the opiate of the masses" theory.
My life went along okay. Got married, had a decent job, had three children with a wonderful wife, things were pretty good. i wasn't a believer but I did look into other faiths. I didn't study any faith extensively but did read about several religions, with Islam and Buddhism as the main topics. I was very impressed to see the benefits that some converts to Islam experienced and the peace that Buddhists seemed to possess.
My wife and I ran into some difficulties and some folks from her church helped us out. I started going to church with her, mainly to help keep our children in line. While I was going to church with her, I began to feel a certain peace and I could see that the folks at church had an inner joy that I lacked. Now, their lives were not perfect by any means, but they seemed to be able to cope so much better with life's challenges than anyone else I knew. I began to think maybe they knew something I didn't.
One thing lead to another, I began to seriously look at my beliefs again. And I actually sent up a feeble plea to any higher power that might be out there for insight. I wouldn't call my first requests prayers as I still was very skeptical. Nonetheless, those requests were answered.
As I began to pray and to ponder about these matters, a deep seated feeling came upon me. My defenses were broken down and I began to let myself listen to that Spirit and believe what I was feeling. Now I recognize that the Holy Spirit was teaching me and breaking through my hard-heartedness.
Now I know in my heart there is a God. I know in my heart that Jesus Christ is His Son. It has been a little more than ten years since I made that discovery for myself and those ten years have been the best of my life, even better than the four years at IU. And in those ten years, I have seen countless more evidences of those truthes.
I know that not everything makes complete sense when it comes to Christianity when it is considered logically. As I have studied and learned, it makes more sense to me. could I explain it logically in a fashion that would change your mind? I seriously doubt it unless the Spirit touches your heart like mine was touched. All I can really tell you is that I have been on another side of Christianity for a significant portion of my life and this side has brought a whole lot more joy, happiness, and peace into my life.
I respect others beliefs. I belief strongly that I have made the absolute best choice, but I respect that others have made good choices and have truth in their lives as well. I believe that Jews, Buddhist, Muslims, Shintoist, Taoists, Hindus, agnostics, and athiests all have truth in their lives and that my faith doesn't make me better than anyone else. Each faith (or non-faith) has good, sincere, and decent practioners and each faith (mine included) has some practioners who maybe aren't quite as benevolent or well-meaning.
I'm sure that this post will be ridiculed and probably rightfully so. I won't argue with you because it is not a matter of me being right and you being wrong or vice versa. Again, I respect your beliefs and I defend your right to believe whatever you want. But I just feel compelled to tell you that not all believers have accepted their faith blindly. And I also have to tell you that I am not ashamed for Christ.
I just want to add my two cents here, and I realize that you will feel that I have grossly overvalued my opinion and beliefs.
I grew up going to a Christian church and was quite active and had a strong belief. Near the end of high school, I got interested in things that conflicted with my beliefs and started doing things that I believed to be wrong.
Ultimately, to assuage my guilt, I stopped believing those things I had previously. I never became an athiest, but i certainly had a healthy skepticism about any Higher Power. I adopted the old "religion is the opiate of the masses" theory.
My life went along okay. Got married, had a decent job, had three children with a wonderful wife, things were pretty good. i wasn't a believer but I did look into other faiths. I didn't study any faith extensively but did read about several religions, with Islam and Buddhism as the main topics. I was very impressed to see the benefits that some converts to Islam experienced and the peace that Buddhists seemed to possess.
My wife and I ran into some difficulties and some folks from her church helped us out. I started going to church with her, mainly to help keep our children in line. While I was going to church with her, I began to feel a certain peace and I could see that the folks at church had an inner joy that I lacked. Now, their lives were not perfect by any means, but they seemed to be able to cope so much better with life's challenges than anyone else I knew. I began to think maybe they knew something I didn't.
One thing lead to another, I began to seriously look at my beliefs again. And I actually sent up a feeble plea to any higher power that might be out there for insight. I wouldn't call my first requests prayers as I still was very skeptical. Nonetheless, those requests were answered.
As I began to pray and to ponder about these matters, a deep seated feeling came upon me. My defenses were broken down and I began to let myself listen to that Spirit and believe what I was feeling. Now I recognize that the Holy Spirit was teaching me and breaking through my hard-heartedness.
Now I know in my heart there is a God. I know in my heart that Jesus Christ is His Son. It has been a little more than ten years since I made that discovery for myself and those ten years have been the best of my life, even better than the four years at IU. And in those ten years, I have seen countless more evidences of those truthes.
I know that not everything makes complete sense when it comes to Christianity when it is considered logically. As I have studied and learned, it makes more sense to me. could I explain it logically in a fashion that would change your mind? I seriously doubt it unless the Spirit touches your heart like mine was touched. All I can really tell you is that I have been on another side of Christianity for a significant portion of my life and this side has brought a whole lot more joy, happiness, and peace into my life.
I respect others beliefs. I belief strongly that I have made the absolute best choice, but I respect that others have made good choices and have truth in their lives as well. I believe that Jews, Buddhist, Muslims, Shintoist, Taoists, Hindus, agnostics, and athiests all have truth in their lives and that my faith doesn't make me better than anyone else. Each faith (or non-faith) has good, sincere, and decent practioners and each faith (mine included) has some practioners who maybe aren't quite as benevolent or well-meaning.
I'm sure that this post will be ridiculed and probably rightfully so. I won't argue with you because it is not a matter of me being right and you being wrong or vice versa. Again, I respect your beliefs and I defend your right to believe whatever you want. But I just feel compelled to tell you that not all believers have accepted their faith blindly. And I also have to tell you that I am not ashamed for Christ.
I'm not even arguing that it isn't exact.
I guess its time to go to scripture. According to the passage it can be exact...144,000 from the 12 tribes ... ie Jews. Plus, as I menitoned, "a great multitude that no one could count". Well, this multitude could not be the same as the 144000, because the 144000 could be counted.
Revelation 7: "1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
The Great Multitude in White Robes
9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."
I guess its time to go to scripture. According to the passage it can be exact...144,000 from the 12 tribes ... ie Jews. Plus, as I menitoned, "a great multitude that no one could count". Well, this multitude could not be the same as the 144000, because the 144000 could be counted.
Revelation 7: "1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
The Great Multitude in White Robes
9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."
alive Iraqi babies or unborn american ones????**
8
This post was edited on 12/19 2:25 PM by GetFreshCrew
8
This post was edited on 12/19 2:25 PM by GetFreshCrew
I respect that.....
I'm sure we are both thinking that neither of us has finished this earthly journey yet. And I'm sure that we would both encourage the other to keep an open mind and to continue to search for truth.
I know I want to continue to search for truth. What I have found in the last ten years, that search has continued to keep me on the path I now follow. I hope I can continue to follow truth and not let my own desires cloud my view.
Best wishes to you in your journey. Please know that though we believe differently, I respect your beliefs and don't think that I am on any different plain of morality than you simply because of our beliefs. So not everyone who considers himself a Christian thinks that the non-believers are inheritently bad.
I'm sure we are both thinking that neither of us has finished this earthly journey yet. And I'm sure that we would both encourage the other to keep an open mind and to continue to search for truth.
I know I want to continue to search for truth. What I have found in the last ten years, that search has continued to keep me on the path I now follow. I hope I can continue to follow truth and not let my own desires cloud my view.
Best wishes to you in your journey. Please know that though we believe differently, I respect your beliefs and don't think that I am on any different plain of morality than you simply because of our beliefs. So not everyone who considers himself a Christian thinks that the non-believers are inheritently bad.
No.
Yahweh is the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Clearly not the same.
You know the difference between a point, line, and plane, right?!
Yahweh is the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Clearly not the same.
You know the difference between a point, line, and plane, right?!
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