Long-term care insurance
- Thread starter BradStevens
- Start date
I was able to delay putting my mom in the nursing home by a year or more by bringing in home health care people. At the time it was priced reasonably and the gals who came to the house did a good job of looking after her, to the extent she let them and that time permitted. I had to keep increasing the number of days and hours they were there until it got to where she needed more help than could be provided.
@BradStevens wrote
I don’t think those with dementia are unaware they are living in squalid conditions. Dementia doesn’t produce an illusory perception of living in Shangri-La. From my experience, they know and are aware of being in uncomfortable or restricted surroundings but are horribly confused about where they are and why this is happening to them. Plus, they almost always have glimpses and short periods of memory where it’s clear they are sad at what is happening to them with the disease.
Our experiences are all going to be different and will vary widely. In my experience, there was no "squalor" and the care was kind and competent. In my dad's case I didn't get a chance to vet the facility ahead of time, but they were fine. In my mom's case, I did quite a bit of research. My wife went with me to some, and she said the one we eventually chose passed the "pee test" -- it didn't smell like old piss.
(I had to reformat your post in my reply, it was bunged up in the original.)
I don’t think those with dementia are unaware they are living in squalid conditions. Dementia doesn’t produce an illusory perception of living in Shangri-La. From my experience, they know and are aware of being in uncomfortable or restricted surroundings but are horribly confused about where they are and why this is happening to them. Plus, they almost always have glimpses and short periods of memory where it’s clear they are sad at what is happening to them with the disease.
Our experiences are all going to be different and will vary widely. In my experience, there was no "squalor" and the care was kind and competent. In my dad's case I didn't get a chance to vet the facility ahead of time, but they were fine. In my mom's case, I did quite a bit of research. My wife went with me to some, and she said the one we eventually chose passed the "pee test" -- it didn't smell like old piss.
(I had to reformat your post in my reply, it was bunged up in the original.)
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Doesn't one need an underlying soon to be fatal condition to go into hospice, not just "I do not want to live like this"?
Not really. The aim is "palliative care", which is meant to reduce pain and suffering, for some value of suffering. The treatment is essentially the administration of powerful sedatives and/or pain meds (like morphine)... and we know getting the dose right can be tricky <wink> <wink>.
My outlaws did that. Moved a hospital bed in for the great granddad. Had a nurse come in. Died in his own home
DANC, admire your outlook and plan for your Mother.
My Son and Daughter are going through some tough times in their own lives.
However they insist on helping their Mom and Dad with such things as household and yard tasks.
This role reversal just reminds me about having to face a growing dependency . A gradual change which to this point, I just cannot accept gracefully.
As Betty White once said, "Getting old isn't for sissies".
Possibly. But it’s never been an available option. I’m not saying it a a “flip the switch” kinda situation. But we should think about where we are developmentally. We have so much control over our health now than our ancestors even 200 years ago. And they were 200 years ahead of their ancestors too.
Watching somebody rot away because of disease; becoming something that resembles nothing of the person they were before. It’s a devastating thing. And as an individual if I know that path lies ahead and where I have anything to provide to my family, why can’t I decide where on that path I get to just say “I’ve had enough”.
Really tough. But not providing the option tells us nothing how attitudes would change over time.
Apologies for being indirect Mas. No disrespect intended.
I just think we should, as a homogenous society, consider viewpoints and options beyond those that underpin our way of life.
Yeah I get it. Been through it twice.
But the Three months leading up to that point when the inertia of not only the patient but the medicine is to just “stay alive”.
Again, I do t think everybody would just suddenly off themselves. And I’d be concerned about any new thing being commercialized.
I’m very open to seeing where providing the option would take us.
We've already done that for my mother-in-law, who had brain cancer. It was inconvenient, but she died surrounded by family.
Everyone thinks they're independent, but family and friends are important - more important than we know.
We moved to Charlotte to be near our grandkids because we want them to grow up around relatives. I realize not everyone can do that. Many people can't get along with their own relatives, but I've made it a point to maintain good relationships with my family, despite it being a challenge.
We have people in our over 55 community that rarely see their children and even more rarely their grandchildren. I just can't imagine living that way.
Unfortunately, when you legalize it, it's opening Pandora's Box.
I didn't take it as disrespectful to me personally. My perspective is skewed because I see first hand the value and 'good works' that can result from participating in our church community. One must be involved and participate. It takes commitment.
One can live in fear, or live in hope.
One can't do both.
Mass, certainly you accept that there are false and true fears, and true and false hopes?
Guess one point would be, you can have both true fears and true hopes about different things at the same time.
Yeah even if you find one now, the newer policies likely to have much lower daily limits, longer exclusion periods, and a lifetime limit... They often cut off after 5 years. They are closer to prepaid expenses now, rather than insurance.
I suppose one could live in hope and faith for one's soul and fear spiders.
If I understand your point.
Or you can do neither. I have both hopes and fears, but I live in the present.
I looked at LTC insurance more than 20 years ago and decided it wasn’t worth it. So I kinda self funded with IRA money and other investments. Now that having to use it is a possibility, I keep thinking about the big tax hit that would be connected with using those funds. I’d like to see some kind of federal tax relief for liquidating investments or IRA’s provided the funds are used for LTC. That makes more sense to me than tax relief for electric cars or solar panels.
Neither of my parents needed LTC so my luck might hold.
Neither of my parents needed LTC so my luck might hold.
We've not had anyone in our family require LTC to this point. A lot of old folks that have all died at home with family around. But it only works if you have family that is willing and able... And I realize we've been lucky. Almost every one of them has needed pretty significant care but there's always been someone there to do it.
I'll give you some good advice on where to get better advice. Go over to the Boglehead forum.
Really impressive, intelligent and successful group of people that have broken this topic down from the financial perspective. You can probably search LTC insurance and find whatever answers you want there. If not, start a thread and you'll get as good as advice as you'd get from any high priced advisor. At the least, a very good starting point.
Hospice care has become big, big business and I’m more and more wary of this industry all the time. The number of hospice companies that have popped up in my little area over the past few years tells me how much mulah is there to be had. Because of this there are incredibly great hospice nurses and now there are also fairly shady teams. “Hospice” is no longer a homogenous term. And I’ve also witnessed so many families who absolutely KNEW they were
Doing the right thing still deal with major regrets after the death about whether or not their loved one really needed that last dose of morphine or did that actually kill them before their time? True assisted suicide would likely leave so many families in chaos and probably lead to innumerable lawsuits and as mentioned above commercials to commoditize death for the depressed. I can’t be on board with legalized suicide
Doing the right thing still deal with major regrets after the death about whether or not their loved one really needed that last dose of morphine or did that actually kill them before their time? True assisted suicide would likely leave so many families in chaos and probably lead to innumerable lawsuits and as mentioned above commercials to commoditize death for the depressed. I can’t be on board with legalized suicide
Well the Baby Boomers are getting old so more hospice places are probably needed. That's good news for JDB 🤣
Mass, as to fear and hope on the same subject.
You could hope the 2024 IU football team goes undefeated while at the same time fearing the odds are against it.
I had this talk with my grandma's third husband once he found out his cancer had returned and he decided not to go through chemo again.
He flat out told me he felt like chemo made him into someone he wasn't and that he would rather die before going through that again. He resisted all medication because he was tired of living in pain and just wanted to get it over with.
It was heartbreaking to hear someone that had lost all hope living like that, but he was done. My grandma had passed by then, he had one brother alive that lived out of state, so all he really had was my mom, my wife and I and my two sisters as support (my mom lives about an hour away and one of my sisters isn't far from that). We tried to be there as much as possible, but having three kids wasn't the easiest thing to handle because my younger kids didn't fully understand what was going on.
That kind of changed my mind about the subject. He lived at home until the final day of his life when he called my mom and told her it was time to go into hospice. He died 12 hours later.
It's hard for me to juggle when someone would qualify or not, but I would have been on full support of him going out like he wanted. It would have been much easier on not only us, but also him as well, not having to live in pain, him not throwing up after every meal, ect. I feel like we are to selfish in some instances and put some people through unnecessary pain when some people don't want to go through it anymore.
Yes. Family guilt is huge in these situations. Too many times it’s an estranged family member who forces the issue for their family member to continue life
Yeah, I’m not sure there is any honor or virtue in sitting around in pain waiting to die.
Ummm...not quite true. As an advisor, I can say there are still several LTC options available and they can fit budgets.
You are right that some companies have left the market, but several quality companies still exist.
That’s the way it’s done. If you have money saved there’s legal tricks using annuities and not having to worry about the waiting period.
Oh it happens. I sold plenty of policies that have had increases. However, I can say most have been with my out of Indiana clients.
