Long-term care insurance

[BradStevens]

My in laws got quite the shock regarding their long-term care insurance. Just recevied a notice that to continue their current benefit level, they would be required to pay premium increases of 133% phased in over the next few years. From ~$7400 to $16,000 a year. Already paid about $80k in premiums. Didn't realize this stuff was so expensive. Also didn't realize insurance companies sold policies like this that are subject to such a large increase in premiums.

I'm assuming the company dotted their i's and crossed their t's with the insurance regulators (but will be checking). Anyone have experience with this? What do you do about this? Roll the dice and hope you don't end up in LTC? Keep paying the same rate but take the lower benefits? Go broke and let Medicaid pay?

As I type this, I realize I better ask my dad about what he's got lined up with my mom for stuff like this. Ugh, I do not want to have that talk. All of this stuff makes me queasy.

 

[DANC]

My in laws got quite the shock regarding their long-term care insurance. Just recevied a notice that to continue their current benefit level, they would be required to pay premium increases of 133% phased in over the next few years. From ~$7400 to $16,000 a year. Already paid about $80k in premiums. Didn't realize this stuff was so expensive. Also didn't realize insurance companies sold policies like this that are subject to such a large increase in premiums.

I'm assuming the company dotted their i's and crossed their t's with the insurance regulators (but will be checking). Anyone have experience with this? What do you do about this? Roll the dice and hope you don't end up in LTC? Keep paying the same rate but take the lower benefits? Go broke and let Medicaid pay?

As I type this, I realize I better ask my dad about what he's got lined up with my mom for stuff like this. Ugh, I do not want to have that talk. All of this stuff makes me queasy.

I always thought the advantage of buying long term care insurance was that you would pay the same rate until/if you needed it, and that it wouldn't go up.

As you said, there's probably legal wording that allows them to do it, but it sure seems shady to me.

That shit is expensive, even if you start early. After the 60 Minutes expose on insurance and all the damage from storms, I would bet there will be a shitstorm in Congress on insurance.

And I don't think the insurance company is going to want to cooperate. They'll clam up tighter than a Colorado election board.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

My in laws got quite the shock regarding their long-term care insurance. Just recevied a notice that to continue their current benefit level, they would be required to pay premium increases of 133% phased in over the next few years. From ~$7400 to $16,000 a year. Already paid about $80k in premiums. Didn't realize this stuff was so expensive. Also didn't realize insurance companies sold policies like this that are subject to such a large increase in premiums.

I'm assuming the company dotted their i's and crossed their t's with the insurance regulators (but will be checking). Anyone have experience with this? What do you do about this? Roll the dice and hope you don't end up in LTC? Keep paying the same rate but take the lower benefits? Go broke and let Medicaid pay?

As I type this, I realize I better ask my dad about what he's got lined up with my mom for stuff like this. Ugh, I do not want to have that talk. All of this stuff makes me queasy.

All for the “benefit” of ending up in an understaffed urine soaked building not renovated since the 1970’s where the administrators look for excuses to provide “therapy” to the inmates (I mean residents) so they can bill at even higher rates. I have nothing but absolute disdain for all nursing homes and most assisted living facilities. I thought the 2 I have worked at in my town were shit but my dad ended up briefly in a memory care unit of an assisted living facility south of ATL in 2019 and it was equally shitty if not worse

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

My in laws got quite the shock regarding their long-term care insurance. Just recevied a notice that to continue their current benefit level, they would be required to pay premium increases of 133% phased in over the next few years. From ~$7400 to $16,000 a year. Already paid about $80k in premiums. Didn't realize this stuff was so expensive. Also didn't realize insurance companies sold policies like this that are subject to such a large increase in premiums.

I'm assuming the company dotted their i's and crossed their t's with the insurance regulators (but will be checking). Anyone have experience with this? What do you do about this? Roll the dice and hope you don't end up in LTC? Keep paying the same rate but take the lower benefits? Go broke and let Medicaid pay?

As I type this, I realize I better ask my dad about what he's got lined up with my mom for stuff like this. Ugh, I do not want to have that talk. All of this stuff makes me queasy.

LTC insurance? Here's how the working poor do it: don't buy insurance. When you start getting feeble, give everything to your kids. Live with them long enough it can't be clawed back. Have them dump you in Medicare approved facility and forget about you. Easy peasy.

 

[twenty02]

My in laws got quite the shock regarding their long-term care insurance. Just recevied a notice that to continue their current benefit level, they would be required to pay premium increases of 133% phased in over the next few years. From ~$7400 to $16,000 a year. Already paid about $80k in premiums. Didn't realize this stuff was so expensive. Also didn't realize insurance companies sold policies like this that are subject to such a large increase in premiums.

I'm assuming the company dotted their i's and crossed their t's with the insurance regulators (but will be checking). Anyone have experience with this? What do you do about this? Roll the dice and hope you don't end up in LTC? Keep paying the same rate but take the lower benefits? Go broke and let Medicaid pay?

As I type this, I realize I better ask my dad about what he's got lined up with my mom for stuff like this. Ugh, I do not want to have that talk. All of this stuff makes me queasy.

Many of the LTC plans have failed. The market barely exists any more. Industry determined 20 years ago they had wildly underpriced risk and as such either quit the market entirely or greatly adjusted pricing. Overall market is only like 10% the size it was 20 years ago.

Only policies typically worth keeping are the old ones. Probably wouldn't waste your time even looking a new policy today. Go broke or suicide are the realistic options. Or the govt run hell holes. Hopefully your kids like you and will take the job.

 

[NPT]

As you said, there's probably legal wording that allows them to do it, but it sure seems shady to me.

Of course there is.... It's on page 999 and font size 1.

 

[NPT]

My in laws got quite the shock regarding their long-term care insurance. Just recevied a notice that to continue their current benefit level, they would be required to pay premium increases of 133% phased in over the next few years. From ~$7400 to $16,000 a year. Already paid about $80k in premiums. Didn't realize this stuff was so expensive. Also didn't realize insurance companies sold policies like this that are subject to such a large increase in premiums.

I'm assuming the company dotted their i's and crossed their t's with the insurance regulators (but will be checking). Anyone have experience with this? What do you do about this? Roll the dice and hope you don't end up in LTC? Keep paying the same rate but take the lower benefits? Go broke and let Medicaid pay?

As I type this, I realize I better ask my dad about what he's got lined up with my mom for stuff like this. Ugh, I do not want to have that talk. All of this stuff makes me queasy.

I have a nephew in a facility that is in bad shape and requires special care. His monthly bill is always in the neighborhood of $35,000. My sister was in the same facility (passed in 2020) and her bill was $85,000-$90,000 per year.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I have a nephew in a facility that is in bad shape and requires special care. His monthly bill is always in the neighborhood of $35,000. My sister was in the same facility (passed in 2020) and her bill was $85,000-$90,000 per year.

My aunt died in 2006 at the age of 102. My father was her guardian/admin and paid her bills.

Twenty years ago, he paid $6K per month for her care at a West side Indy Nursing care facility.

 

[mcmurtry66]

My aunt died in 2006 at the age of 102. My father was her guardian/admin and paid her bills.

Twenty years ago, he paid $6K per month for her care at a West side Indy Nursing care facility.

It’s all rough. I’ve sued so many of them. There’s Medicaid facilities here that you’d be better off with a bullet. And I’m not remotely kidding.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It’s all rough. I’ve sued so many of them. There’s Medicaid facilities here that you’d be better off with a bullet. And I’m not remotely kidding.

My sister is in a Medicaid facility. What a wretched place. The wages are low so much of the staff are just putting in time. Many of the residents have dementia so it isn’t like she has people to play cards with or whatever. Fortunately her church often visits, literally they pretty much all came once and had Bible study with her and whomever wanted.

 

[UncleMark]

My sister is in a Medicaid facility. What a wretched place. The wages are low so much of the staff are just putting in time. Many of the residents have dementia so it isn’t like she has people to play cards with or whatever. Fortunately her church often visits, literally they pretty much all came once and had Bible study with her and whomever wanted.

Those with dementia are the lucky ones.

 

[mcmurtry66]

My sister is in a Medicaid facility. What a wretched place. The wages are low so much of the staff are just putting in time. Many of the residents have dementia so it isn’t like she has people to play cards with or whatever. Fortunately her church often visits, literally they pretty much all came once and had Bible study with her and whomever wanted.

It’s just heartbreaking Marv

 

[mcmurtry66]

My sister is in a Medicaid facility. What a wretched place. The wages are low so much of the staff are just putting in time. Many of the residents have dementia so it isn’t like she has people to play cards with or whatever. Fortunately her church often visits, literally they pretty much all came once and had Bible study with her and whomever wanted.

We have some in the hood that you would have to see to believe. And the workers. My god. Humane society pets are treated better

 

[Marvin the Martian]

We have some in the hood that you would have to see to believe. And the workers. My god. Humane society pets are treated better

I am not sure why we would expect more, McDonalds probably pays more. Even if it is close, which job would one rather have?

LTC insurance seemed to be the best answer, obviously it wasn’t. I have no idea what could help this situation but there has to be some way even if it is assisted suicide.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I am not sure why we would expect more, McDonalds probably pays more. Even if it is close, which job would one rather have?

LTC insurance seemed to be the best answer, obviously it wasn’t. I have no idea what could help this situation but there has to be some way even if it is assisted suicide.

Agreed on all counts

 

[BradStevens]

We have some in the hood that you would have to see to believe. And the workers. My god. Humane society pets are treated better

Both my grandmothers ended up in the same one in Elkhart. Out in the country near my high school.

It was really well run. Nice people, clean, well kept. Both had to basically sell their houses and everything they had, go broke paying the place and then govt picked up the tab. Guess they were “lucky.”

 

[BradStevens]

Many of the LTC plans have failed. The market barely exists any more. Industry determined 20 years ago they had wildly underpriced risk and as such either quit the market entirely or greatly adjusted pricing. Overall market is only like 10% the size it was 20 years ago.

Only policies typically worth keeping are the old ones. Probably wouldn't waste your time even looking a new policy today. Go broke or suicide are the realistic options. Or the govt run hell holes. Hopefully your kids like you and will take the job.

What does the age of the policy have to do with it? Better terms?
FIL has been paying into this one for 26 years.

 

[mcmurtry66]

What does the age of the policy have to do with it? Better terms?
FIL has been paying into this one for 26 years.

Might be an erisa angle son

 

[BradStevens]

Might be an erisa angle son

There isn't.

 

[larsIU]

Assisted suicide is the only option once you can no longer care for yourself and your quality of life is nil. But, religion.

So here we are.

I don't see a future without assisted suicide. It's humane and dignified. **** religion for taking that away.

 

[DANC]

I am not sure why we would expect more, McDonalds probably pays more. Even if it is close, which job would one rather have?

LTC insurance seemed to be the best answer, obviously it wasn’t. I have no idea what could help this situation but there has to be some way even if it is assisted suicide.

My mom is 95 and is doing well, and lives in a seniors apartment and can take care of herself. Now. But I know that won't last forever. She has zero money and gets by on a small SS payments and what I supplement. When she gets bad enough, I'll move her in with us and put a hospital bed in the spare bedroom and hire someone to come in and clean and do whatever needs to be done.

My long term health plan is to be good to my daughter and hope she's good to me.

 

[hoot1]

All for the “benefit” of ending up in an understaffed urine soaked building not renovated since the 1970’s where the administrators look for excuses to provide “therapy” to the inmates (I mean residents) so they can bill at even higher rates. I have nothing but absolute disdain for all nursing homes and most assisted living facilities. I thought the 2 I have worked at in my town were shit but my dad ended up briefly in a memory care unit of an assisted living facility south of ATL in 2019 and it was equally shitty if not worse

My wife upon talking about assisted living said, "Just shoot me".

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Assisted suicide is the only option once you can no longer care for yourself and your quality of life is nil. But, religion.

So here we are.

I don't see a future without assisted suicide. It's humane and dignified. **** religion for taking that away.

 

[DANC]

Assisted suicide is the only option once you can no longer care for yourself and your quality of life is nil. But, religion.

So here we are.

I don't see a future without assisted suicide. It's humane and dignified. **** religion for taking that away.

You could sell lottery tickets for the privilege of pulling the plug. Help your family out!

 

[BradStevens]

Those with dementia are the lucky ones.

My aunt just died with dementia. Had it for going on ten years? Not luck, UM, not lucky at all.

 

[larsIU]

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It's just dumb. That poor woman would have had to suffer for whatever time she had remaining b/c of our Judeo Christian values (which permeate our law of course).

We allow DNR orders. Why not this? Let someone go out as they wish while they still have the mental capacity to make that decision. By all accounts, when this occurs the friends and family have long passed the point of talking somebody out of it and come to terms wiht the deicsion.

Madness.

 

[BradStevens]

It's just dumb. That poor woman would have had to suffer for whatever time she had remaining b/c of our Judeo Christian values (which permeate our law of course).

We allow DNR orders. Why not this? Let someone go out as they wish while they still have the mental capacity to make that decision. By all accounts, when this occurs the friends and family have long passed the point of talking somebody out of it and come to terms wiht the deicsion.

Madness.

Do a large percentage of people want this? I think the urge to avoid death is strong among most, even the old and infirm.

 

[DANC]

It's just dumb. That poor woman would have had to suffer for whatever time she had remaining b/c of our Judeo Christian values (which permeate our law of course).

We allow DNR orders. Why not this? Let someone go out as they wish while they still have the mental capacity to make that decision. By all accounts, when this occurs the friends and family have long passed the point of talking somebody out of it and come to terms wiht the deicsion.

Madness.

I hear what you're saying, but assisted suicide is the first step to chaos.

Unscrupulous people will take advantage of this and even the government will eventually get involved.

It would become its own industry and the advertising will make it seem very attractive to anyone with depression.

"Don't be a burden to your family. We'll take care of your estate and make sure your family gets all they deserve."

 

[UncleMark]

My wife upon talking about assisted living said, "Just shoot me".

My wife says I already am in an assisted living situation.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I hear what you're saying, but assisted suicide is the first step to chaos.

Unscrupulous people will take advantage of this and even the government will eventually get involved.

It would become its own industry and the advertising will make it seem very attractive to anyone with depression.

"Don't be a burden to your family. We'll take care of your estate and make sure your family gets all they deserve."

See: The People's Republic of Canada

 

[UncleMark]

We allow DNR orders. Why not this? Let someone go out as they wish while they still have the mental capacity to make that decision. By all accounts, when this occurs the friends and family have long passed the point of talking somebody out of it and come to terms wiht the deicsion.

The dirty little secret is that "hospice care" is, for all intents and purposes, assisted death. The family (and perhaps the patient) need to understand going in that they're greasing the skids and that the alternative is extended suffering (and expense). I would recommend using it at the first indication that it would be appropriate. I waited too long with my dad, but when we decided it was time he was able to die comfortably and peacefully. The hospice care people know what they're doing and know what the results will be, and will cooperate with hastening death if they know it's called for and that everyone is on board.

 

[UncleMark]

See: The People's Republic of Canada

My father in law was given palliative/hospice care in his last days. Everyone knew what that meant, and all were grateful it was available.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Assisted suicide is the only option once you can no longer care for yourself and your quality of life is nil. But, religion.

So here we are.

I don't see a future without assisted suicide. It's humane and dignified. **** religion for taking that away.

This is sad.

'**** religion '

Really, Lars?

Our church is 153 years old. Many of the members have attended literally their entire lives. We have a number of second and third generation families.

They endure age-related issues of health, isolation and dependence through faith. Our faith community works through visitation, communication and other support: Religion!

Suicide is murder. One cannot seek forgiveness after destroying oneself.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Unscrupulous people will take advantage of this and even the government will eventually get involved.

Exactly, I'm perfectly fine, but my wife is thinking about this as I type... thanks @larsIU

 

[UncleMark]

Those with dementia are the lucky ones.

My aunt just died with dementia. Had it for going on ten years? Not luck, UM, not lucky at all.

Not my point, and I'm sure you know that. If you're going to be in custodial care, it's got to be better to not be cognizant of your circumstances than otherwise.

I learned a lot through dealing with my folks. First was that (at least with the two facilities I had to deal with) the perspective we bring to the situation is far different than it is for the loved one. I had no complaints with the quality of care and attention my mom and dad received. I had to learn that what I imagined it would be like to be in that situation was far different than what it was for them. Once they got settled in and had accepted their new circumstances, my parents did okay. Would they have preferred to be in their own homes living their old lives as if nothing had happened? Of course. But that wasn't reality. They actually adjusted better than we (me and the rest of the family) did.

 

[Spartans9312]

Assisted suicide is the only option once you can no longer care for yourself and your quality of life is nil. But, religion.

So here we are.

I don't see a future without assisted suicide. It's humane and dignified. **** religion for taking that away.

We already have it…they just call it hospice

 

[UncleMark]

We already have it…they just call it hospice

There's an echo in here...

 

[DANC]

Exactly, I'm perfectly fine, but my wife is thinking about this as I type... thanks @larsIU

I see you get what I'm talking about

 

[BradStevens]

Not my point, and I'm sure you know that. If you're going to be in custodial care, it's got to be better to not be cognizant of your circumstances than otherwise.

I learned a lot through dealing with my folks. First was that (at least with the two facilities I had to deal with) the perspective we bring to the situation is far different than it is for the loved one. I had no complaints with the quality of care and attention my mom and dad received. I had to learn that what I imagined it would be like to be in that situation was far different than what it was for them. Once they got settled in and had accepted their new circumstances, my parents did okay. Would they have preferred to be in their own homes living their old lives as if nothing had happened? Of course. But that wasn't reality. They actually adjusted better than we (me and the rest of the family) did.

I don’t think those with dementia are unaware they are living in squalid conditions. Dementia doesn’t produce an illusory perception of living in Shangri-La. From my experience, they know and are aware of being in uncomfortable or restricted surroundings but are horribly confused about where they are and why this is happening to them. Plus, they almost always have glimpses and short periods of memory where it’s clear they are sad at what is happening to them with the disease.

 

[Spartans9312]

There's an echo in here...

I responded before reading the rest of the thread