IU still needs shooters

[ufo33]

Other B1G teams have multiple guys who can hit 3s and FTs
IU has JHS now that X is injured
Kopp is a real mystery
Gunn doesn’t play
Bates is not shy to take 30 footers as soon as he enters the game, but he has no midrange game
Leal is injured/ never performed well at IU
Galloway is a non-shooter, floater, driver, acrobatic finisher, dunker
Geronimo is a leaping non shooter as is TJD
Race is injured
Banks & Duncomb don’t play

 

[bsmitty08]

Other B1G teams have multiple guys who can hit 3s and FTs
IU has JHS now that X is injured
Kopp is a real mystery
Gunn doesn’t play
Bates is not shy to take 30 footers as soon as he enters the game, but he has no midrange game
Leal is injured/ never performed well at IU
Galloway is a non-shooter, floater, driver, acrobatic finisher, dunker
Geronimo is a leaping non shooter as is TJD
Race is injured
Banks & Duncomb don’t play

We scored 89 points. Defense, toughness and a coach that can make in game adjustments is needed more.

 

[Cavanagh]

We scored 89 points. Defense, toughness and a coach that can make in game adjustments is needed more.

Ya our defense has got much worse since last year. Dunno how that is possible.

 

[IUNorth]

Other B1G teams have multiple guys who can hit 3s and FTs
IU has JHS now that X is injured
Kopp is a real mystery
Gunn doesn’t play
Leal is injured/ never performed well at IU
Galloway is a non-shooter, floater, driver, acrobatic finisher, dunker
Geronimo is a leaping non shooter as is TJD
Race is injured
Banks & Duncomb don’t play

Could always use better shooters...but I think we have an adequate amount of it/them.

Kopp is a good shooter when he gets good, in rhythm shots...whether in transition, or from really good ball/player movement.

Bates is showing himself to be a solid outside shooter.

JHS, if last night was any sort of indicator of things to come, is a very good outside shooter, that can get his own shots, which is HUGE for our offense.

I sound like a broken record, but our problem is what our offense becomes as the games go on. We stagnate, and stand around and watch TJD/Race work in the post. That's never going to create good enough opportunities for our guys to be effective from the outside. When we do move the ball inside and out, and get ball reversals, and get good player movement, we usually end up hitting shots. Early last night, Nebraska are recent good examples of this.

 

[Coach Geez]

Other B1G teams have multiple guys who can hit 3s and FTs
IU has JHS now that X is injured
Kopp is a real mystery
Gunn doesn’t play
Leal is injured/ never performed well at IU
Galloway is a non-shooter, floater, driver, acrobatic finisher, dunker
Geronimo is a leaping non shooter as is TJD
Race is injured
Banks & Duncomb don’t play

Shooting is arguably the least of this teams concern going forward. I'm comfortable with Kopp, Bates, and JHS shooting from the perimeter. This team lacks any kind of serious wing defender who is capable of stopping the opposing teams best player, let alone slowing him. Keegan Murray did whatever he wanted in the second half and IU had no answer. Scoring nearly 90 points on the road should be an automatic win in this conference. It wasn't enough last night.

 

[bsmitty08]

Ya our defense has got much worse since last year. Dunno how that is possible.

Because we are soft soft soft

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Other B1G teams have multiple guys who can hit 3s and FTs
IU has JHS now that X is injured
Kopp is a real mystery
Gunn doesn’t play
Bates is not shy to take 30 footers as soon as he enters the game, but he has no midrange game
Leal is injured/ never performed well at IU
Galloway is a non-shooter, floater, driver, acrobatic finisher, dunker
Geronimo is a leaping non shooter as is TJD
Race is injured
Banks & Duncomb don’t play

Other teams face these type of issues and are able to work through them. It does start with the HC and Woody just isn't getting it done.

 

[bsmitty08]

It blows my mind how big a difference it is in watching Purdue vs watching us. It pains me to say this but they are better coached, smarter and they play harder. They don’t have the talent we have but they win and it’s because of painter.

 

[IUNorth]

Shooting is arguably the least of this teams concern going forward. I'm comfortable with Kopp, Bates, and JHS shooting from the perimeter. This team lacks any kind of serious wing defender who is capable of stopping the opposing teams best player, let alone slowing him. Keegan Murray did whatever he wanted in the second half and IU had no answer. Scoring nearly 90 points on the road should be an automatic win in this conference. It wasn't enough last night.

I posted about this in the offseason. Its one of the reasons I wanted Dexter Dennis so badly. I know he's been borderline awful offensively for A&M...but we win last night if he's one of our main wings.

Not being able to even slow down opposing elite wing oriented players has lost us...probably 80% of Woody's losses since he got here. Syracuse, both Wisconsin games, Purdue, both OSU games, both Iowa losses, last night, etc... we win all those games if we have a guy/guys that can put up even mild resistance coming down the stretch against opposing good wings.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Because we are soft soft soft

That is the underlying problem.....short on both physical and mental toughness. Softest team in the BT. How likely is it that the same school has the softest teams in football & basketball in the same year?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

It blows my mind how big a difference it is in watching Purdue vs watching us. It pains me to say this but they are better coached, smarter and they play harder. They don’t have the talent we have but they win and it’s because of painter.

Same as be said for OSU, perhaps not as much as in the case of the PUkes.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Ya our defense has got much worse since last year. Dunno how that is possible.

Because our magic eraser that used to clean up some stuff on the defensive end has been walking off the court holding his back or not playing in every game since the one before UNC.

We had good ball pressure out front last year and we had Race and Trayce as the clean up crew.

I hate excuses. Hate them. However there are also facts. The fact is that we have had injuries to just about every guy that was listed as a key player going into this year. Johnson, Galloway, JHS, TJD, and now Race. Bates and Kopp were the other 2 most mentioned for heavy rotation minutes. So 5 of your top 7 guys have missed time or have played in games with injuries (Jackson-Davis). There are things to criticize the coaching staff for, but that is some major adversity for any coaching staff.

It is also why I am convinced that when it comes to sports, I can't have nice things.

 

[Coach Geez]

I posted about this in the offseason. Its one of the reasons I wanted Dexter Dennis so badly. I know he's been borderline awful offensively for A&M...but we win last night if he's one of our main wings.

I got killed this offseason for suggesting it, but I thought it was a massive failure by Woodson and staff to completely stop recruiting a guy like Coen Carr (who is now committed to Mich State). Went "all-in" on adding another shooter and didn't get either and they both ended up committing to the same in-conference school.

Not being able to even slow down opposing elite wing oriented players has lost us...probably 80% of Woody's losses since he got here. Syracuse, both Wisconsin games, Purdue, both OSU games, both Iowa losses, last night, etc... we win all those games if we have a guy/guys that can put up even mild resistance coming down the stretch against opposing good wings.

Iowa had a stretch in the second half last night where they scored on 13 out of 14 possessions, mostly Keegan Murray. Relying on Kopp or Geronimo to try and stop a player like Murray is going to get you beat nearly every night.

 

[The Vid]

Ya our defense has got much worse since last year. Dunno how that is possible.

It’s easy for me.

- Kopp can’t guard a lightpost
- Tamar see above
- X out, best on ball defender
- Trayce injured
- Freshman can’t play D most of the time
- Geronimo

 

[dbmhoosier]

Ya our defense has got much worse since last year. Dunno how that is possible.

No Fife.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I posted about this in the offseason. Its one of the reasons I wanted Dexter Dennis so badly. I know he's been borderline awful offensively for A&M...but we win last night if he's one of our main wings.

Not being able to even slow down opposing elite wing oriented players has lost us...probably 80% of Woody's losses since he got here. Syracuse, both Wisconsin games, Purdue, both OSU games, both Iowa losses, last night, etc... we win all those games if we have a guy/guys that can put up even mild resistance coming down the stretch against opposing good wings.

JG is SO bad defensively. Never in a defensive posture....totally upright with no balance. Loses the ball and/or player. Just awful

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Because our magic eraser that used to clean up some stuff on the defensive end has been walking off the court holding his back or not playing in every game since the one before UNC.

We had good ball pressure out front last year and we had Race and Trayce as the clean up crew.

I hate excuses. Hate them. However there are also facts. The fact is that we have had injuries to just about every guy that was listed as a key player going into this year. Johnson, Galloway, JHS, TJD, and now Race. Bates and Kopp were the other 2 most mentioned for heavy rotation minutes. So 5 of your top 7 guys have missed time or have played in games with injuries (Jackson-Davis). There are things to criticize the coaching staff for, but that is some major adversity for any coaching staff.

It is also why I am convinced that when it comes to sports, I can't have nice things.

Excellent post. but going back to excuses........bad teams find a way to lose.....good teams find a way to win. Good coaches adjust. Players step up. I think your post is more relevant to the season as a whole than to last night.

 

[Cavanagh]

It’s easy for me.

- Kopp can’t guard a lightpost
- Tamar see above
- X out, best on ball defender
- Trayce injured
- Freshman can’t play D most of the time
- Geronimo

Heard the same thing about Miller and Parker last year.

 

[Coach Geez]

Not a huge proponent of it, but with X out indefinitely and Race appearing to be headed for the same fate, might have to implement some zone defense going forward. IU already struggles enough guarding the 3 point line, but IU's on-ball defense is just horrific. I think IU has enough length out on the perimeter to play a competitive zone, but if anything it helps protect guys like Kopp and Geronimo who are going to be tasked with guarding guys like Keegan Murray going forward. Fouling straight line drivers are going to be the death of this team. Don't have the depth going forward when fouling becomes your best defense.

 

[.Gerdis]

It’s easy for me.

- Kopp can’t guard a lightpost
- Tamar see above
- X out, best on ball defender
- Trayce injured
- Freshman can’t play D most of the time
- Geronimo

X being out is critical. I haven’t heard his name mentioned, but Phin was a good on ball defender, we could use him now.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Excellent post. but going back to excuses........bad teams find a way to lose.....good teams find a way to win. Good coaches adjust. Players step up. I think your post is more relevant to the season as a whole than to last night.

I agree that good coaches adjust, but at a certain point what do you do without the players? Offense did not have the best movement, but that wasn't the issue last night. The problem was on the defensive end and the injuries definitely were an issue on that front. TJD came up holding his back late in the first half. We ended that half up 10. We had a double digit lead with Race. We absorbed that blow and got back to double digits but then had TJD come up hobbled again. We tried Geronimo and he was lost on defense. Tried Reneau and he couldn't handle. Could have gone with Duncomb I suppose but I know he couldn't guard Murray and I believe Rebraca would have him in foul trouble.

I do think we have some questions on our assistant staff. I think we have 3 recruiters, I am not convinced we have developers over there. We have run out of viable next men up. That is what happened last night. There was discussion I saw somewhere that there were players that wanted to come to IU as transfers but we said no and stuck with what we had. I think in an NIL world, if that was true, we are going to have to treat this more like a pro team. I think we have hold overs at the end of the bench using scholarships that don't fit what this staff wants to do and also don't seem to be developing enough to be trusted to help with the injuries we have piling up.

 

[Coach Geez]

I do think we have some questions on our assistant staff. I think we have 3 recruiters, I am not convinced we have developers over there. We have run out of viable next men up. That is what happened last night. There was discussion I saw somewhere that there were players that wanted to come to IU as transfers but we said no and stuck with what we had. I think in an NIL world, if that was true, we are going to have to treat this more like a pro team. I think we have hold overs at the end of the bench using scholarships that don't fit what this staff wants to do and also don't seem to be developing enough to be trusted to help with the injuries we have piling up.

I have a feeling Brian Walsh is going to be in this business for many years to come but yeah IU's staff right now is mostly comprised of recruiters.

 

[SRThoosier]

It blows my mind how big a difference it is in watching Purdue vs watching us. It pains me to say this but they are better coached, smarter and they play harder. They don’t have the talent we have but they win and it’s because of painter.

Agreed. And, Painter recruits fundamentally sound players. All about culture and climate. Players that fit his system. Always has shooters, a solid big or two, and depth. He gets Indiana kids willing to commit to his philosophy. IU hires and fires the wrong coaches every 5-8 years. Culture and climate. It’s really a running joke at this point.

 

[bsmitty08]

Agreed. And, Painter recruits fundamentally sound players. All about culture and climate. Players that fit his system. Always has shooters, a solid big or two, and depth. He gets Indiana kids willing to commit to his philosophy. IU hires and fires the wrong coaches every 5-8 years. Culture and climate. It’s really a running joke at this point.

100% accurate. There is something to be said about culture within a program and coaches establishing the culture.
Bob Knight had a culture and he recruited to his system and the character of kid he wanted.

 

[Beorik]

Heard the same thing about Miller and Parker last year.

Yeah people are insane. Kopps defense is fine against most player. He cannot guard a guy like Murray though. I am disappointed in Geronimo’s performance on defense. Athletically he should be able to provide good to great defense on a guy like that and he can’t. Woody said it best, Race was our best matchup against him and he got hurt.

Not having X (our best on ball defender) or a 100% TJD (best rim protection) is hurting our team defense much more than any 1 individual performance though. So long as those two are out we just need to give great effort and try to score more.

 

[IUNorth]

Yeah people are insane. Kopps defense is fine against most player. He cannot guard a guy like Murray though. I am disappointed in Geronimo’s performance on defense. Athletically he should be able to provide good to great defense on a guy like that and he can’t. Woody said it best, Race was our best matchup against him and he got hurt.

Not having X (our best on ball defender) or a 100% TJD (best rim protection) is hurting our team defense much more than any 1 individual performance though. So long as those two are out we just need to give great effort and try to score more.

TJD was the obvious best matchup. Further proof to me that he's been woefully misused in his time at IU.

But with an ailing back, and our reliance on him offensively, I get why he didn't guard him more.

After that...after seeing a couple possessions last night, it should have been a loud, flashing, blaring, warning signal that Geronimo should not be guarding Murray. Kopp, JHS, Galloway, anyone would have been better on him than Geronimo at that point. Woody allowed Murray, and their entire team, to get on a roll because he didn't get away from that matchup sooner. All we had to do was make it mildly difficult for them to get decent shots, and we'd have outscored them. Heck, we almost did anyway. Iowa is consistently this bad defensively...at least IU has some tape of being solid defensively at some points this year. After our start, we were always going to push to score 85+ points. Just put up any sort of resistance defensively, and we win the game.

 

[Beorik]

TJD was the obvious best matchup. Further proof to me that he's been woefully misused in his time at IU.

But with an ailing back, and our reliance on him offensively, I get why he didn't guard him more.

After that...after seeing a couple possessions last night, it should have been a loud, flashing, blaring, warning signal that Geronimo should not be guarding Murray. Kopp, JHS, Galloway, anyone would have been better on him than Geronimo at that point. Woody allowed Murray, and their entire team, to get on a roll because he didn't get away from that matchup sooner. All we had to do was make it mildly difficult for them to get decent shots, and we'd have outscored them. Heck, we almost did anyway. Iowa is consistently this bad defensively...at least IU has some tape of being solid defensively at some points this year. After our start, we were always going to push to score 85+ points. Just put up any sort of resistance defensively, and we win the game.

I agree. With Race in I would have loved to see TJD on Murray some and Race on their big. Once Race went down that wasn’t an option.

Our team defense was just really bad last night after a really good start.

 

[IUNorth]

I agree. With Race in I would have loved to see TJD on Murray some and Race on their big. Once Race went down that wasn’t an option.

Our team defense was just really bad last night after a really good start.

Mainly was just referring to the TJD v Murray matchup. TJD largely shut him down in the possessions he guarded him. It did open up their big to get some points/activity on our smaller guys though.

I just think TJD is soooo much more than a low post offensive/defensive guy. And we've done him, and ourselves, a huge disservice by largely playing him only in that role.

Its a weird dynamic, as I've said before, because it has allowed him to generate stats, which has gained him some acclaim.

I just think if Archie has realized what he had, and used him like a Ben Simmons/Draymond Green type of player. Trayce would be in the NBA right now. And IU basketball would probably be in a better place. And before I get the pushback...both those guys posted up plenty in college and even now in the Pros. Its how they end up in the post, and how they're utilized overall that's the point. And then both of them have been allowed/encouraged to guard all 5 positions, something I think TJD can and would do very, very well.

 

[bailey777]

Other teams face these type of issues and are able to work through them. It does start with the HC and Woody just isn't getting it done.

I have said from day one he was a feel good hire to make the former players and older fans happy. Nothing in his resume said he was qualified for this job. I thought if he would land top notch talent it may help mask some of his coaching issues but now recruiting seems to have dried up for 2023 and beyond. Next year is going to be really rough.

 

[bailey777]

100% accurate. There is something to be said about culture within a program and coaches establishing the culture.
Bob Knight had a culture and he recruited to his system and the character of kid he wanted.

I have yet to see this big culture change Woodson promised. Nothing seems any different to me. The only reason we are doing ok is we have an all american and a five star frosh who will both be gone next year. Purdue can bring in a couple of short white guys who were not ranked and is the nubmer one team in the country. Unreal.

 

[Coach Geez]

I have said from day one he was a feel good hire to make the former players and older fans happy. Nothing in his resume said he was qualified for this job. I thought if he would land top notch talent it may help mask some of his coaching issues but now recruiting seems to have dried up for 2023 and beyond. Next year is going to be really rough.

How is a guy who has been a head coach for over a decade at the highest level of basketball not "qualified" for this job? What are the qualifications for being a head coach collegiately? Not sold on Woodson long term and has an uphill battle to climb this year given we're about to be real shorthanded, but spare me with this qualification bullshit. Was Knight qualified to coach IU after being the head coach at a service academy for a few years?

 

[dbmhoosier]

I have said from day one he was a feel good hire to make the former players and older fans happy. Nothing in his resume said he was qualified for this job. I thought if he would land top notch talent it may help mask some of his coaching issues but now recruiting seems to have dried up for 2023 and beyond. Next year is going to be really rough.

He was Buckner's guy and why it will be very hard to fire him.

 

[bailey777]

He was Buckner's guy and why it will be very hard to fire him.

Yeah nothing like living 40 years in the past. That is the key to the future!

 

[Sobchak_Security]

How is a guy who has been a head coach for over a decade at the highest level of basketball not "qualified" for this job? What are the qualifications for being a head coach collegiately? Not sold on Woodson long term and has an uphill battle to climb this year given we're about to be real shorthanded, but spare me with this qualification bullshit. Was Knight qualified to coach IU after being the head coach at a service academy for a few years?

Woodson was hired to coach one of the storied college basketball programs historically and hadn’t coached in, nor won a college game in his life. When, you can look at numerous examples where the moves from pro to college didn’t work out. At best it was a roll of the dice.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Free throws, defense and turnovers. Do just one and IU wins.

 

[Coach Geez]

Woodson was hired to coach one of the storied college basketball programs historically and hadn’t coached in, nor won a college game in his life. When, you can look at numerous examples where the moves from pro to college didn’t work out. At best it was a roll of the dice.

Might have been a roll of the dice but you can't say he wasn't qualified. Duke and UNC just hired assistants who have zero college coaching experience. They don't get more storied than those programs.

 

[Sobchak_Security]

Might have been a roll of the dice but you can't say he wasn't qualified. Duke and UNC just hired assistants who have zero college coaching experience. They don't get more storied than those programs.

But they had been a coach in the college game. Woody hasn’t been involved in the college game since 1980.

 

[Hatchets7times]

It blows my mind how big a difference it is in watching Purdue vs watching us. It pains me to say this but they are better coached, smarter and they play harder. They don’t have the talent we have but they win and it’s because of painter.

He runs a whole bunch of action on the weak side .To free guy's up.
Coach Woodson you can too...

 

[Coach Geez]

But they had been a coach in the college game. Woody hasn’t been involved in the college game since 1980.

So any bench assistant at the collegiate level is more qualified than a guy who has a decade of experience being the head guy at the highest level? This is the most ridiculous of hills to die on.

 

[JB_Nomee]

I have yet to see this big culture change Woodson promised. Nothing seems any different to me. The only reason we are doing ok is we have an all american and a five star frosh who will both be gone next year. Purdue can bring in a couple of short white guys who were not ranked and is the nubmer one team in the country. Unreal.

Painter is so great, and yet has been to the same amount of final 4’s since he’s been at Purdoo that IU has with 1 more big ten title.