The world will still need the next generation of SBX baristas. Mcm thanks you.
IU is a middling academic school
- Thread starter BradStevens
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The world will still need the next generation of SBX baristas. Mcm thanks you.
H ****ing R
Bane of my existence. My boss (a Sr VP) asked me what i look for when hiring. I said, "a brain". I'll try to suss out work ethic via resume/social media review but the interview is going to be a conversation and me determining if you're smart. I don't much care if you're and asshole, jacksass, whatever. If you're not smart, you're not smart.
But HR is where the gatekeeping is occurring.
Btw, I agree with BadwakerangerboarderIN. Even the midsized company I work for, if you don't have a marketing degree you're not working in marketing. If you don't have a degree in accounting or a CPA, you're not working in the higher level (non simple bookeeping roles) in accounting. Also, our marketing and accounting/finance depts have IMPROVED since they started doing this. Don't know if it's correlation or causation, but it's noticeable. this has happened over the last 5 years or so.
LMAO....so you are going to encourage your kids to get a very expensive liberal arts degree, which is worthless for anything other than personal enrichment and a prerequisite for a graduate program..... All of which YOU AREN'T PAYING FOR?
WOW!
He ain’t leavin em nothin either. Bradstevens does. Not. F*uck. Arounddddddddd
His kids will be Pulitzer Prize winning authors and mine will be hunter Biden’s
I've heard both sides of this argument. From both people with and without means. I am lucky enough I will pay for my child's college (we only have the one, thank God). But I can understand the other side, especially if that's how it worked out for you.
However, understanding what little I know about student loan debt (thanks Mom and Dad) I just don't want my already slightly irresponsible daughter having to leave college and assume adult responsibilities while having the burdne of 100k worth of debt hanging around her neck. Also, that would be just another reason she moves back in.
It's an investment I'm willing to make is what I'm saying.
They have a good 3-point FG program.
Aloha we are going through this with our daughter now. She applied to a lot of schools engineering departments and decided she didn’t want to be an engineer. She’s admitted to the IU Luddy informatics school. She’s now saying she doesn’t really want to do that. Wife and I are holding fast and told her if she’s going to IU, it’s Luddy. It’s a fantastic program with excellent career prospects. I wish someone would have been able to help me pick my career track.Brad's a lawyer too. I wish my daughter had gotten a business degree instead of majoring in Communications. It would have saved me tons of money! However, she wouldn't listen to Dad. What's new?She wasn't ready for college and I thought she should take a year off, but instead she basically flunked most of her courses the first year. Took her seven years all together and ended up on the Dean's list her last two years as she finally figured it out. Now she's ABT (All But Thesis) for her Master which has already gotten her job. Should have the Masters before the end of this semester. Finally!
Same.
Parents paid for my undergrad degree. My grandparents paid for both my parents to get degrees back in the day, etc....
To be fair these were all at in-state schools.
My wife's parents/grandparents paid for her degree.
My work paid for my MBA.
Don't know anything about the student loan business and neither will my kids. Life is hard enough without starting with a mortgage around your neck.
Gifted artists?
We will probably end up paying for both our kids undergrad….but I have only told them I would allocate a certain dollar amount. I want them to see the costs and weigh their options.
I don’t know if that right or wrong but it seems appropriate.
My wife and I both had student loan debt so maybe that weighs into it as well
My sister was a QBA major at IU. She went that route instead of computer science because she didn't think was smart enough to get through the C.S. courses.(She was wrong) Of course she spent her entire career being big systems architect.
I paid student loans for 20 years. It sucked. I’m hoping to cover all the kids’ cost. Problem is that I have 3 and will have 3 years with double tuition. If the new FAFSA formula doesn’t take multiple kids in college at the same time into account, I’m not sure what we will do those 3 years where I’ll have $55-60 in state to cover.
Yeah I should clarify. I'll pay up to a certain amount... Not a blank check for poor decisions
I wasn’t from an affluent family at all. I was born in a trailer park, but parents moved into a house when I was young. My parents haven’t given me a dime since I left the house at 18 for college and didn’t really do much financially or educationally for me while with them. So I too handled college and law school on my own.
Of the 5 or 6 kids from my high school who went to IU, one was in the business school. He’s done the worst financially. The rest got a degree in something else and actually got jobs! No, not Starbucks baristas! They are doing quite well, just like yourself.
I fear you’ve taken my personal views on the value of a liberal arts education vs. a business school curriculum personally. I apologize for any offense I’ve given.
. . . and Jeff Bezoses, Mark Zuckerbergs, and Elon Musks? Or all those doctors, lawyers, engineers, and software designers out there?
Good stuff. It was never easy for me. I was born a poor black child. I remember the days. Sittin on the porch with my family. Singin and dancin. I never thought about college
Condescension is unwarranted.
Re your substantive post:
(1) it doesn't have to be very expensive and is no more expensive than the business degree
(2) you're dead wrong it is worthless for anything other than personal enrichment, although it is valuable for that
(3) I want my kids to learn how to value things, have agency over the direction of their lives, and learn what it is like to bet on yourself. So yes, they will be responsible for it.
Yeah, but that day I found my Special Purpose . . .
I understand valuing a general liberal arts study - history, writing, etc. But I also can't see the value without emphasizing math and sciences also. Many don't. I see a lot of what sure seem to be useless and easy courses, counting as a 'broad liberal education'.
Some people heading into the business school are going to take easier courses. Others are going to put it the work. Same as a liberal arts curriculum, they have underwater basket weaving there too. But I know people who studied history and worked at it hard. Depends on the student.
If the school itself isn't demanding or ultra selective, and Indiana isn't in many ways, it's all about putting in the work.
My brother in law went to IU, and friends say he partied and did average his first year. Wouldn't have amounted to much that way. He says he at first chose courses if they were easy.
But I'm told by year two something got to him, and he was working and became someone the other friends in his circle there looked up to as a leader. He got a minor in accounting (or took many course, not sure how that works) with a major in finance, and he has destroyed it in his career, moved up fast everywhere he has been and was a VP for a F500 company by age 40. He has good ethics and nobody could accuse him of not being quite knowledgeable in world subjects and history and writing.
Some people heading into the business school are going to take easier courses. Others are going to put it the work. Same as a liberal arts curriculum, they have underwater basket weaving there too. But I know people who studied history and worked at it hard. Depends on the student.
If the school itself isn't demanding or ultra selective, and Indiana isn't in many ways, it's all about putting in the work.
My brother in law went to IU, and friends say he partied and did average his first year. Wouldn't have amounted to much that way. He says he at first chose courses if they were easy.
But I'm told by year two something got to him, and he was working and became someone the other friends in his circle there looked up to as a leader. He got a minor in accounting (or took many course, not sure how that works) with a major in finance, and he has destroyed it in his career, moved up fast everywhere he has been and was a VP for a F500 company by age 40. He has good ethics and nobody could accuse him of not being quite knowledgeable in world subjects and history and writing.
A liberal arts degree from an Ivy or a NW or something is worthwhile. But that implies a gifted student that's likely to succeed in life going anywhere and studying anything. Everyone thinks they and their kids are on the far right reaches of the bell curve, though they likely aren't.
One from IU or any other laundry list of universities isn't worth much of anything, economically. That's just the hard facts. I don't even think a business degree from Kelley is worth paying out of state tuition for.
As I said before, I don't think ANY out of state tuition at ANY school outside of actual elite institutions comes close to being worth the investment. At that point it's just a luxury purchase.
Docs and lawyers require post graduate schools.
Engineers, including software ones, aren't majoring in humanities.
If you have the next Bezos or Musk on your hands, congrats. Why even bother with college then.
To be fair, Musk is on another level from even Bezos and Zuckerberg. And Zuckerberg went to college (yes, Harvard) and, while I'm not sure he ever graduated, it clearly provided him some kind of platform to succeed.
don't know much about Bezos' background.
Why do you guys keep bringing up only humanities when I'm focused on the liberal arts? I am a proponent of the humanities but from the beginning of this discussion, I've focused on math and the hard sciences, too.
If I had my druthers, both kids would double major in a hard science or math and a humanity. That's what I did, and I objectively think it is the best path for an intelligent, curious person who isn't solely focused on money. I'm not Bezos or Musk. As for grad school, yeah, I'm pushing that hard. Neither kid is interested as of now, though.
You don't have to share my values on this. But the lack of understanding of the facts--that a lot of people still major in the liberal arts and still do quite well for themselves financially-- I find very weird.
I saw school as a vehicle towards a job. Anything else is a foreign concept to me
I just read a lot of complaints and moaning from graduates over the last decade.... even those from the hard sciences that they are basically unemployable.... or more likely employable, but at wages that are no better than some other career track that didn't even include college.
Most all of them seem resigned to the fact that they need to return to school for post grad work if they are to make any decent living.
Or there's always the insurance industry.....
For reference, of the Top 16 undergraduate majors, only 2 business degrees make it in both the 5-year-out category and the mid-career category, both math based:
www.cnbc.com
Math, econ, and physics make the list, as does computer science, all majors within the liberal arts category. Also, you can become an engineer by majoring in physics and math or chemistry, too.
Note, based on this chart, though, that the touting of marketing or accounting or general business as some plum job is not warranted (roughly equivalent to a poly sci degree). Nurses, on average, make better money:
www.bestcolleges.com
Liberal arts do dominate the bottom spots, partly due to education being considered a liberal art. At this point, we might have to lump that in with the woowoo subjects, unfortunately.
The take away here: focus on math and quantitative studies if you want to earn a lot of money.
The 16 highest-paying college majors, 5 years after graduation
To make the most money after graduating college, consider majoring in engineering.
Math, econ, and physics make the list, as does computer science, all majors within the liberal arts category. Also, you can become an engineer by majoring in physics and math or chemistry, too.
Note, based on this chart, though, that the touting of marketing or accounting or general business as some plum job is not warranted (roughly equivalent to a poly sci degree). Nurses, on average, make better money:
Highest-Paying College Majors: Full 2023 Statistics | BestColleges
Read about the highest-paying college majors, including starting and mid-career salaries. Discover statistics on employability and underemployment.
www.bestcolleges.com
Liberal arts do dominate the bottom spots, partly due to education being considered a liberal art. At this point, we might have to lump that in with the woowoo subjects, unfortunately.
The take away here: focus on math and quantitative studies if you want to earn a lot of money.
As a seriously jaded mother****er, no. God no. My opinions on humanity are borne solely from that experience. And that's not a good thing.
For reference, of the Top 16 undergraduate majors, only 2 business degrees make it in both the 5-year-out category and the mid-career category, both math based:
The 16 highest-paying college majors, 5 years after graduation
To make the most money after graduating college, consider majoring in engineering.
Math, econ, and physics make the list, as does computer science, all majors within the liberal arts category. Also, you can become an engineer by majoring in physics and math or chemistry, too.
Note, based on this chart, though, that the touting of marketing or accounting or general business as some plum job is not warranted (roughly equivalent to a poly sci degree). Nurses, on average, make better money:
Highest-Paying College Majors: Full 2023 Statistics | BestColleges
Read about the highest-paying college majors, including starting and mid-career salaries. Discover statistics on employability and underemployment.
Liberal arts do dominate the bottom spots, partly due to education being considered a liberal art. At this point, we might have to lump that in with the woowoo subjects, unfortunately.
The take away here: focus on math and quantitative studies if you want to earn a lot of money.
Maybe this is a terminology issue.... When I think of liberal arts degrees I think of BAs.... Basically every degree you listed is a BS degree and none of which... (other than Economics)... Would I consider a liberal arts degree. A computer science degree is not a BA.
No, that's wrong. You can get a BA in a physical science or math. I have one.
Liberal arts aren't defined by BA v. BS, they are defined by subject matter:
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
lib·er·al arts
/ˈlib(ə)rəl ˈärts/
noun
- 1.
NORTH AMERICAN
academic subjects such as literature, philosophy, mathematics, and social and physical sciences as distinct from professional and technical subjects.
i'm not gonna lie brad stevens. you're a little wacky. driving these kids to schools that they are going to have to pay for. i can just hear it. well gang you remember that mdl i was telling you about? well it popped. grab my flat. we're going to the porsche dealer to check out some 9s. can't take it with ya. (kids looking at each other. this guy....). so i'm going to go ahead and extend an offer at this time to join The Dream Team. Congratulations!For reference, of the Top 16 undergraduate majors, only 2 business degrees make it in both the 5-year-out category and the mid-career category, both math based:
The 16 highest-paying college majors, 5 years after graduation
To make the most money after graduating college, consider majoring in engineering.
Math, econ, and physics make the list, as does computer science, all majors within the liberal arts category. Also, you can become an engineer by majoring in physics and math or chemistry, too.
Note, based on this chart, though, that the touting of marketing or accounting or general business as some plum job is not warranted (roughly equivalent to a poly sci degree). Nurses, on average, make better money:
Highest-Paying College Majors: Full 2023 Statistics | BestColleges
Read about the highest-paying college majors, including starting and mid-career salaries. Discover statistics on employability and underemployment.
Liberal arts do dominate the bottom spots, partly due to education being considered a liberal art. At this point, we might have to lump that in with the woowoo subjects, unfortunately.
The take away here: focus on math and quantitative studies if you want to earn a lot of money.
I'd never buy a Porsche.
Are Porsches the douchiest of cars?
I respect anyone driving a Toyota Camry or a Ferrari. One is extremely practical and the other is an awesome car and a true status symbol. A Porsche, on th...
www.letsrun.com
They come with a mistress. Pretty good deal reallyI'd never buy a Porsche.
Are Porsches the douchiest of cars?
I respect anyone driving a Toyota Camry or a Ferrari. One is extremely practical and the other is an awesome car and a true status symbol. A Porsche, on th...
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