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It has finally been said

all4IU said:
Coach K etc are the exceptions! For every Coach K, Bennett or Barnes, who had bad starts for two seasons or more but turned out to be great later, there are definitely more Billy Gillespie, matt Doherty, Tommy Amaker.... You don't hear from them anymore because many of them are already out of coaching. The numbers won't be on your favor.
Click to expand...

Actually, doing well right off the bat is the exception.

Of the 21 power conference teams with a 6 seed or better, only 6 coaches reached the NCAA tournament each of their first 2 season at that school: Roy Williams, Calipari, Bill Self, Greg Gard, Bruce Webber, and Steve Prohm. Only Williams/Calipari did so with a team that missed the NCAA tournament the year prior

11 of 21 missed the tournament both their first two seasons

Then you have John Beilein who missed the tournament his first year, made the tournament his second, then missed it his third

You also have Will Wade who missed the tournament his first year, and then wound up in an FBI investigation in year 2

Also, while Painter technically made the tournament his “2nd” year, it was his 3rd year with the program having been named HC in waiting for a year.

Mike Krzyzewski
1st Season at Duke: 17-13 (NIT)
2nd season at Duke: 10-17 (no post season)

Tom Izzo
1st Season at MSU: 16-16 (NIT)
2nd season at MSU: 17-12 (NIT)

Tony Bennett
1st Season at UVA: 15-16 (no post season)
2nd Season at UVA: 16-15 (no post season)

Rick Barnes
1st Season at Tenn: 15-19 (no post season)
2nd Season at Tenn:16-16 (no post season)

Buzz Williams
1st Season at VT: 11-22 (no post season)
2nd Season at VT: 20-15 (NIT)

Leonard Hamilton
1st Season at FSU: 14-15 (no post season)
2nd Season at FSU: 19-14 (NIT)

Steve Wojciechowski
1st Season at Marquette: 13-19 (no post season)
2nd Season at Marquette: 20-13 (no post season)

Bruce Pearl
1st Season at Auburn: 15-20 (no post season)
2nd Season at Auburn: 11-20 (no post season)

Ben Howland
1st Season at Miss St: 14-17 (no post season)
2nd Season at Miss St: 16-16 (no post season)

Mark Turgeon
1st Season at Maryland: 17-15 (no post season)
2nd Season at Maryland: 20-11 (NIT)

Jay Wright
1st Season at Villanova: 19-13 (NIT)
2nd Season at Villanova: 15-15 (NIT)

Honorable Mention
Will Wade
1st Season at LSU: 18-15 (NIT)
2nd Season at LSU: Under FBI investigation

John Beilein
1st Season at UM: 10-22 (no post season)
3rd season at UM: 15-17 (no post season)
 
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Kyser123 said:
Showing other coach’s records serves a purpose I guess; however , show me one of those coaches who lost 12/13 against some of the teams we lost to. With the resources and money at IU, no coach should do that. Any of us could’ve coached this team to that record. Why is it so hard for people to understand that we are not elite and if we want to get back to that , it does not happen with 5-7 years of rebuilding every 7 years. This is the same comments we heard with Crean , then 9 years later we were back to square one.
Click to expand...

How many teams have beaten a #6 team twice (home/away)? Injuries played a major role in the poor middle-of-the-season play. Year 3 will have to be markedly better, and I think it will be. And yes, we shouldn't have lost to some of the teams we did. We also don't know if chemistry has been a problem.
 
Paterfamilias said:
Even with my pretty basic system, I had IU #40 if Davis couldn't give IU top 5 minutes. I did have IU #18 on roster alone, without any injury consideration, which fueled some optimism. I was pretty sure that Davis wouldn't be able to do that at least until late in the season, but that #18 still looked pretty good.

Factor in a super tough Big 10 and this years results might not be as awful as it seems. The problem is that I thought Archie would be a coach who would actually be able to outperform basic expectation levels and hopefully by a lot. Also, you have a team that went 5-5 vs Kenpom Top 30 teams. That rarely (if ever) is the mark of an NIT team; I think Crean might have come close once... red flag.

Strangely, I'm still more optimistic than I probably should be, but I need to see something next year to remain optimistic. I don't just mean getting into the NCAA Tourney either. IU will have the right kind of experience level to have a really good regular season next year. That would be my expectation of a very good coach.

One thing about Alford. Steve doesn't get the benefit of the same excuses that are passed off as valid ones for almost every other coach. That said, I thought he needed to be fired and said so here after the loss to Cincy. I've never seen a team totally quit on a coach so early in a season. I wanted him fired for his own sake.
Click to expand...

Great post again.

It's obvious our valley killed this team and I need some actual proof that it wasn't locker room related as we didn't just lose those games...we looked like (no offense) UCLA who just quit on Alford like you said.

That just reeks of locker room issues.

Still, we were a little lucky that during that stretch we didn't have any 'bad' losses technically...even though we both know we would have if we were playing a bad team.

But when it was said and done, had some big wins, no really bad losses and just missed the tournament in year two of a mini rebuild.

This team was better than last year's team so there's that.

I said when Archie was hired that he raised our floor a ton from Crean just because of his structure, his defensive focus and his stewardship.

What I'm concerned about is can he maximize our ceiling? He hasn't yet in my mind like Holtmann, or Sampson did which probably isn't fair of me but...I think he's layed a nice identity foundation but I worry he's stuck in the 00's with his Thad Matta offense, that worked wonders ten years ago when you focused on post production (and our post production, 2 point shooting has been elite) vs perimeter focused as the game has changed.

I also don't think he's much of a matchup coach which I'll admit frustrates me compared to Holtmann (and is my favorite, Brad Stevens, identity). Holtmann selectively takes things away from you, like simply dropping two defenders into the post and leaving Smith, Morgan and or Davis alone when they went out of the post.

Archie, like Underwood, seems to be a systems defensive guy (per Robert Johnson). I'm not a fan of that as a personal preference.

Anyway, this season was disappointing and was headed into a complete dumpster fire but he righted it a little.

At the end of the day, it was slightly off the national projections. Not a complete, nasty, unforgivable trainwreck that the drama queens are pushing.
 
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TommyCracker said:
Great post again.

It's obvious our valley killed this team and I need some actual proof that it wasn't locker room related as we didn't just lose those games...we looked like (no offense) UCLA who just quit on Alford like you said.

That just reeks of locker room issues.

Still, we were a little lucky that during that stretch we didn't have any 'bad' losses technically...even though we both know we would have if we were playing a bad team.

But when it was said and done, had some big wins, no really bad losses and just missed the tournament in year two of a mini rebuild.

This team was better than last year's team so there's that.

I said when Archie was hired that he raised our floor a ton from Crean just because of his structure, his defensive focus and his stewardship.

What I'm concerned about is can he maximize our ceiling? He hasn't yet in my mind like Holtmann, or Sampson did which probably isn't fair of me but...I think he's layed a nice identity foundation but I worry he's stuck in the 00's with his Thad Matta offense, that worked wonders ten years ago when you focused on post production (and our post production, 2 point shooting has been elite) vs perimeter focused as the game has changed.

I also don't think he's much of a matchup coach which I'll admit frustrates me compared to Holtmann (and is my favorite, Brad Stevens, identity). Holtmann selectively takes things away from you, like simply dropping two defenders into the post and leaving Smith, Morgan and or Davis alone when they went out of the post.

Archie, like Underwood, seems to be a systems defensive guy (per Robert Johnson). I'm not a fan of that as a personal preference.

Anyway, this season was disappointing and was headed into a complete dumpster fire but he righted it a little.

At the end of the day, it was slightly off the national projections. Not a complete, nasty, unforgivable trainwreck that the drama queens are pushing.
Click to expand...
When RMK was fired many fans were alarmed that the program was going in the dumpster. Another group of fans routinely called them drama queens. Who was right? After all these years if it is not reasonable for fans to be concerned with CAM then it is more due to PTSD and not drama. I live with my wife, two six year old twin girls, and a bitch dog. I know drama queens and these fans are not.
 
CriticArisen said:
When RMK was fired many fans were alarmed that the program was going in the dumpster. Another group of fans routinely called them drama queens. Who was right? After all these years if it is not reasonable for fans to be concerned with CAM then it is more due to PTSD and not drama. I live with my wife, two six year old twin girls, and a bitch dog. I know drama queens and these fans are not.
Click to expand...

I hated Crean. Hated him. To the point that I rooted against us so he could be let go.

It's strange when you actively rooting against someone, you really learn to scout a team well when you don't want them to win....which is why no one will ever convince me otherwise that Cody Zeller impacted winning as much as any player that we've had since Buckner. Even more than my man Damon.

Because he frustrated the living hell out of me from the billion little winning plays. From setting the insane pick for Verdell during the actual Wat shot (oh, and also fouling out AD, one of only 2 X's that whole year he fouled out. AD was an insane plus 18 that game, but spent most of it on the bench because of Zeller) to grabbing Nix and fake hitting himself in the nuts where he (I think) faked an injury to give an exasperated team a rest without a time out being called.

Anyway, I was where they were at and it's all agenda driven.

The worries are legit. The complaints are a little legit.

The ferocity level, rhetoric and the panic attack is redonkulous and waaaay too much drama queenish iny opinion.
 
3dogs said:
Going on the evidence of the past 2 years, not predicting the future.
Coaching has been poorer than expected in my opinion.
Motivation/culture seems to be an issue, we don’t play hard as often as I thought we would.
Recruiting, beside Romeo, has been poor. RP has been mediocre to below that far more often than he has been good. Thompson and Hunter are non factors and Damezi and Jake can’t play. Pretty poor.
Most of the roster hasn’t improved in 2 years.
Talent evaluation on grad transfers is a fail.
All next year’s improvement is based on hope. I guess that’s fine but a poor strategy.
TJD likely has a chance to help- beyond that this staff has given no one a reason they can recruit and evaluate the talent they need
Click to expand...
Hunter has been a nonfactor? WOW. You mean a guy unable to play due to injury has been a nonfactor? Thanx Mr. Obvious.
 
turney333 said:
Actually, doing well right off the bat is the exception.

Of the 21 power conference teams with a 6 seed or better, only 6 coaches reached the NCAA tournament each of their first 2 season at that school: Roy Williams, Calipari, Bill Self, Greg Gard, Bruce Webber, and Steve Prohm. Only Williams/Calipari did so with a team that missed the NCAA tournament the year prior

11 of 21 missed the tournament both their first two seasons

Then you have John Beilein who missed the tournament his first year, made the tournament his second, then missed it his third

You also have Will Wade who missed the tournament his first year, and then wound up in an FBI investigation in year 2

Also, while Painter technically made the tournament his “2nd” year, it was his 3rd year with the program having been named HC in waiting for a year.

Mike Krzyzewski
1st Season at Duke: 17-13 (NIT)
2nd season at Duke: 10-17 (no post season)

Tom Izzo
1st Season at MSU: 16-16 (NIT)
2nd season at MSU: 17-12 (NIT)

Tony Bennett
1st Season at UVA: 15-16 (no post season)
2nd Season at UVA: 16-15 (no post season)

Rick Barnes
1st Season at Tenn: 15-19 (no post season)
2nd Season at Tenn:16-16 (no post season)

Buzz Williams
1st Season at VT: 11-22 (no post season)
2nd Season at VT: 20-15 (NIT)

Leonard Hamilton
1st Season at FSU: 14-15 (no post season)
2nd Season at FSU: 19-14 (NIT)

Steve Wojciechowski
1st Season at Marquette: 13-19 (no post season)
2nd Season at Marquette: 20-13 (no post season)

Bruce Pearl
1st Season at Auburn: 15-20 (no post season)
2nd Season at Auburn: 11-20 (no post season)

Ben Howland
1st Season at Miss St: 14-17 (no post season)
2nd Season at Miss St: 16-16 (no post season)

Mark Turgeon
1st Season at Maryland: 17-15 (no post season)
2nd Season at Maryland: 20-11 (NIT)

Jay Wright
1st Season at Villanova: 19-13 (NIT)
2nd Season at Villanova: 15-15 (NIT)

Honorable Mention
Will Wade
1st Season at LSU: 18-15 (NIT)
2nd Season at LSU: Under FBI investigation

John Beilein
1st Season at UM: 10-22 (no post season)
3rd season at UM: 15-17 (no post season)
Click to expand...

Those are still the exceptions. There are hundreds pf coaches coaching the major conference in the past twenty years. You no longer hear of most of them because they are all gone! Even Billy Gillespie did better than Miller in his first two seasons record wise.
 
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all4IU said:
Coach K etc are the exceptions! For every Coach K, Bennett or Barnes, who had bad starts for two seasons or more but turned out to be great later, there are definitely more Billy Gillespie, matt Doherty, Tommy Amaker.... You don't hear from them anymore because many of them are already out of coaching. The numbers won't be on your favor.
Click to expand...
amaker is coaching harvard
 
Why posters continue to give the trolls an audience is beyond me. You do understand these aren't IU fans but sock puppets here to troll.
 
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fpeaugh said:
You don’t come back from this as a coach. It’s a matter of when not if at this point.
Click to expand...

so literally half of the coaches with 6 seeds or higher this year were living on the razors edge their first 2 years?

no. and you are an idiot.

"you don't come back from this"...lol....f******* great!
 
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hondo314 said:
so literally half of the coaches with 6 seeds or higher this year were living on the razors edge their first 2 years?

no. and you are an idiot.

"you don't come back from this"...lol....f******* great!
Click to expand...
Half of 6 seeds? What are you talking about?

I’m stating the obvious...that once a coach loses the fan base, any fan base, it’s nearly impossible to win them back. Archie is at or past the point of no return with the casual fan.
 
fpeaugh said:
Half of 6 seeds? What are you talking about?

I’m stating the obvious...that once a coach loses the fan base, any fan base, it’s nearly impossible to win them back. Archie is at or past the point of no return with the casual fan.
Click to expand...

half. actually a little more than half. we knew you'd ignore Turney3333's good work

when did Archie lose the fan base? 5 guys on this board doesn't count as the fanbase. man? you are truly dumb as shit.

"Of the 21 power conference teams with a 6 seed or better, only 6 coaches reached the NCAA tournament each of their first 2 season at that school: Roy Williams, Calipari, Bill Self, Greg Gard, Bruce Webber, and Steve Prohm. Only Williams/Calipari did so with a team that missed the NCAA tournament the year prior

11 of 21 missed the tournament both their first two seasons

Then you have John Beilein who missed the tournament his first year, made the tournament his second, then missed it his third

You also have Will Wade who missed the tournament his first year, and then wound up in an FBI investigation in year 2

Also, while Painter technically made the tournament his “2nd” year, it was his 3rd year with the program having been named HC in waiting for a year.

Mike Krzyzewski
1st Season at Duke: 17-13 (NIT)
2nd season at Duke: 10-17 (no post season)

Tom Izzo
1st Season at MSU: 16-16 (NIT)
2nd season at MSU: 17-12 (NIT)

Tony Bennett
1st Season at UVA: 15-16 (no post season)
2nd Season at UVA: 16-15 (no post season)

Rick Barnes
1st Season at Tenn: 15-19 (no post season)
2nd Season at Tenn:16-16 (no post season)

Buzz Williams
1st Season at VT: 11-22 (no post season)
2nd Season at VT: 20-15 (NIT)

Leonard Hamilton
1st Season at FSU: 14-15 (no post season)
2nd Season at FSU: 19-14 (NIT)

Steve Wojciechowski
1st Season at Marquette: 13-19 (no post season)
2nd Season at Marquette: 20-13 (no post season)

Bruce Pearl
1st Season at Auburn: 15-20 (no post season)
2nd Season at Auburn: 11-20 (no post season)

Ben Howland
1st Season at Miss St: 14-17 (no post season)
2nd Season at Miss St: 16-16 (no post season)

Mark Turgeon
1st Season at Maryland: 17-15 (no post season)
2nd Season at Maryland: 20-11 (NIT)

Jay Wright
1st Season at Villanova: 19-13 (NIT)
2nd Season at Villanova: 15-15 (NIT)

Honorable Mention
Will Wade
1st Season at LSU: 18-15 (NIT)
2nd Season at LSU: Under FBI investigation

John Beilein
1st Season at UM: 10-22 (no post season)
3rd season at UM: 15-17 (no post season)"
 
fpeaugh said:
Half of 6 seeds? What are you talking about?

I’m stating the obvious...that once a coach loses the fan base, any fan base, it’s nearly impossible to win them back. Archie is at or past the point of no return with the casual fan.
Click to expand...

Link? Or was the another gem from your brunch with the trustees? :rolleyes:
 
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victorbear said:
I'm not a "sock puppet" as you like to say. My dad is an IU grad, I'm an IU grad and my son is going in the fall.
Click to expand...

Unless the data I can glean from your profile page is messed up, here are the facts: Your profile is 14 years old--but you never posted a single message until January 26th of this year. Now, I'll grant you that older messages aren't still around from before we switched out of thread view. But still--at least a couple of years, no posts, no topics, no nothing. Then...more than 200 responses per week, resulting in thousands of posts in no time. You've literally posted more than 100 times since Saturday.

No one clicks off and on like that for a good reason. Plus, you seem to hate almost everything about IU basketball--when good things happen you either disappear or downplay them. You revel in the IU's failures. You're like an unhinged version of bsmitty. His posts were always negative, like yours. But, his credibility went downhill fast, because he made all sorts of predictions, including that we wouldn't get Langford, which revealed that he was full of it. He also predicted we'd finish 7th in the BIG the year we won it. Kinda like how you just predicted we'd lose to St. Francis. He still pops up from time to time, and complains about the same Archie Miller he used to constantly campaign for us to get to replace Crean.

Only you, of course, know what you are. But you behave like a sock puppet. Like a bsmitty sock puppet that doesn't care about making crazy predictions and constant negativity. I'm just guessing though. I could be wrong.

Sock puppet swears sock puppet isn't a sock puppet. What an existential conundrum. I spent too much time on this.
 
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frikkenfrakken said:
Unless the data I can glean from your profile page is messed up, here are the facts: Your profile is 14 years old--but you never posted a single message until January 26th of this year. Now, I'll grant you that older messages aren't still around from before we switched out of thread view. But still--at least a couple of years, no posts, no topics, no nothing. Then...more than 200 responses per week, resulting in thousands of posts in no time. You've literally posted more than 100 times since Saturday.

No one clicks off and on like that for a good reason. Plus, you seem to hate almost everything about IU basketball--when good things happen you either disappear or downplay them. You revel in the IU's failures. You're like an unhinged version of bsmitty. His posts were always negative, like yours. But, his credibility went downhill fast, because he made all sorts of predictions, including that we wouldn't get Langford, which revealed that he was full of it. He also predicted we'd finish 7th in the BIG the year we won it. Kinda like how you just predicted we'd lose to St. Francis. He still pops up from time to time, and complains about the same Archie Miller he used to constantly campaign for us to get to replace Crean.

Only you, of course, know what you are. But you behave like a sock puppet. Like a bsmitty sock puppet that doesn't care about making crazy predictions and constant negativity. I'm just guessing though. I could be wrong.

Sock puppet swears sock puppet isn't a sock puppet. What an existential conundrum. I spent too much time on this.
Click to expand...
Maybe he could ask his family to vouch for him in a post with a notary present and post the scan of the notarized notary’s eye witness statement.
 
frikkenfrakken said:
Unless the data I can glean from your profile page is messed up, here are the facts: Your profile is 14 years old--but you never posted a single message until January 26th of this year. Now, I'll grant you that older messages aren't still around from before we switched out of thread view. But still--at least a couple of years, no posts, no topics, no nothing. Then...more than 200 responses per week, resulting in thousands of posts in no time. You've literally posted more than 100 times since Saturday.

No one clicks off and on like that for a good reason. Plus, you seem to hate almost everything about IU basketball--when good things happen you either disappear or downplay them. You revel in the IU's failures. You're like an unhinged version of bsmitty. His posts were always negative, like yours. But, his credibility went downhill fast, because he made all sorts of predictions, including that we wouldn't get Langford, which revealed that he was full of it. He also predicted we'd finish 7th in the BIG the year we won it. Kinda like how you just predicted we'd lose to St. Francis. He still pops up from time to time, and complains about the same Archie Miller he used to constantly campaign for us to get to replace Crean.

Only you, of course, know what you are. But you behave like a sock puppet. Like a bsmitty sock puppet that doesn't care about making crazy predictions and constant negativity. I'm just guessing though. I could be wrong.

Sock puppet swears sock puppet isn't a sock puppet. What an existential conundrum. I spent too much time on this.
Click to expand...

Twindegrees, an IU hater on GBI claims to have five usernames on this board.
 
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WiskyHoosier said:
Another dumb post from you. The bridge is gone, Knight has been gone for over 20 years. Painter immediately succeeded Keady. Bringing in someone who had ties to Knight does not guarantee anything.

When Crean was hired and he gave s “Its Indiana crap” at his presser he never followed through sans Zeller, Blackmon, Hulls. This was one thing that “IU fans” were begging for. In two years we have gotten that from Miller. Hes two for two on landing our Mr Basketball. You and the likes of Fpuke want to run him out.

Next years team assuming no other transfers will still have 6 Crean scholarships on the roster. This years team despite record was markedly better than last and you’re a fool if you don’t see it. This years wins versus last years losses to Fort Wayne and Ind St prove this.

I am not a Miller apologist at all and will call it as I see it.

But you need to GTFOH
Click to expand...

Agreed. This year has shaken my confidence in CAM, but it's too early to run him off and his recruiting has been good, even in losing Brooks. It's also logical in building a complete roster, which is an improvement. I do think we need to make the tournament next year. I get that we're losing a lot in Langford and Morgan, but we should have overall improvement in everyone back, Hunter (or his recruited replacement) will return in addition to next years class. We underperformed this year, no reason we can't overperform next, as both MI and PU did imo.
 
CriticArisen said:
Maybe he could ask his family to vouch for him in a post with a notary present and post the scan of the notarized notary’s eye witness statement.
Click to expand...


Says the guy that also has a 14yr old profile....with zero posts until this Feb....and now you've rattled off 120 in less than a month.
 
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Quite a group of losers on this board that launch every sort of BS when not everyone locksteps with the lemming herd.
 
CriticArisen said:
Quite a group of losers on this board that launch every sort of BS when not everyone locksteps with the lemming herd.
Click to expand...


If you're going to try to use multiple profiles to attempt to create a troll farm, you should at least change your vernacular, insults and age of the dummy accounts so it's a little more challenging to figure out....
 
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twenty02 said:
If you're going to try to use multiple profiles to attempt to create a troll farm, you should at least change your vernacular, insults and age of the dummy accounts so it's a little more challenging to figure out....
Click to expand...
As i thought you are an effin coward hiding behind your keyboard.
 
twenty02 said:
If you're going to try to use multiple profiles to attempt to create a troll farm, you should at least change your vernacular, insults and age of the dummy accounts so it's a little more challenging to figure out....
Click to expand...

Limited education has its limits...
 
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