Israel under attack from Hamas
- Thread starter JamieDimonsBalls
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“The two leaders also discussed public Iranian threats against Israel and the Israeli people. President Biden made clear that the United States strongly supports Israel in the face of those threats”
Biden has taken no action against Iran in his whole time in office. In fact, he has inexplicably provided some aid and comfort to Iran. Biden publicly is becoming more of an Israeli antagonist.
I think we're watching Israel going through their "growing pains" and its attendant identity crisis.
On the one hand, Israel wants to still be seen as the upstart underdog that needs massive western military support and political cover to beat back the Arab hordes. also needs a pass on international norms and laws because its still locked in an against-all-odds struggle for survival. needs to continue to occupy and develop land that Palestinians live on to maintain a constant defensive stance.
on the other hand, Israel wants to be treated as a free-standing great power who can execute policy independent of its benefactors. it wants to be seen as an established power in the ME acting in coalition with allies.
it's tough trying to be both of these at once.
Biden is on a power trip with Israel just like he is with everything. He wants to run everything and everything he runs is f*cked up. The guy is an absolute disaster. Those who are beginning to say Biden is the real threat to democracy are correct.
we've been over this so many times. you're looking at this only through the new fangled populist view of foreign policy and you don't even know it. Republican presidents used to engage with a more dangerous version of Iran and supported a two-state solution for Palestine.
How is it that "America First" means Israel can just do whatever it wants despite running against strategy the US has been working on for a generation? because of the consistent efforts of presidents both Republican and Democrat, Israel no longer has to fight existential wars, Iran can no longer wage land wars. huge successes. but ya, let's throw it all away because populists like tough talk. let's indoctrinate a new generation of terrorists. good times.
by all means, let your feelz out. but please come back when you actually want to talk policy.
You're the boy who cried wolf. Nothing you say about Biden can be taken seriously, because there's no way to distinguish whatever good points you might be able to conjure up from the constant barrage of nonsense that flies off your keyboard every time you are even remotely reminded that Biden exists. You're even worse than McM. At least McM has decent complaints about Biden. He might repeat them until we're all sick of him, but they at least make sense.
That’s not much of a rebuttal
This thread is about Israel, Hamas, and Iran. I think Biden’s policy is not only indefensible, but his policy is the proximate cause of the war, meaning he made war more likely than not. File your rebuttal.
Edit. And if you’ve been reading my posts about the ME, you’ll see my argument. Responses have been nonexistent to pitifully weak.
Neither Iran nor Gazans favor a 2 state solution. I had a conversation with somebody last week who participated in a zoom call with a Palestinian who lives in the West Bank. She described how Israel kicked Palestinians out of homes. That is a concern, howver, Israel’s view is that only happens to Hamas sympathizers. The other point is that her Palestinian friends do not want 2 states. She sees the advantages in quality of life in Israel. She only insisted on a fair representation in Israeli government. Biden won’t permit any negotiation along those lines.
That’s just one more item of Biden’s clueless policy that I have mentioned often.
Edit. I have no idea what you mean by populist foreign policy. Trump moving the embassy, killing the general, and maximum economic pressure is pretty aggressive.
Only repeating Biden talking points.
Biden is mentally and physically paralyzed over a fear of escalation. He keeps yapping about “Proportional” response. Two states is his bed rock bottom line. He is very lenient toward Iran which is the elephant in the room with Hamas, Hezbollah, and Houthis. He publicly rebuked and criticizes Israel. The Biden policy seems only to be to return to the situation that has existed for almost 80 years with no peace, constant rocket fire into Israel, and produced unspeakable savagery.
by all means, show us the data that indicates Gazans don't what a state of their own.
80 years with no peace? huh? you really need to read about Israel's first few decades of existence. please do. US policy over that time has turned Israel from a illegitimate backwater afterthought on the verge of being overrun into a modern regional power more than capable of defending itself. this admin continues those policies while balancing against our broader ME interests, as did ALL the non-populist admins before it.
Biden didn't "return" the conflict to any situation anymore than Trump fixed the ME.
Palestinians Lack Faith in Biden, Two-State Solution
Ahead of Hamas' recent attack on Israel, most Palestinians distrusted Biden's ability to mediate peace, and support for a two-state solution dropped to 24%.
news.gallup.com
The motivation for the Biden’s Israeli/Gaza policy is Michigan’s electoral votes.
NOTHINGBURGER!
180 +-dual-citizenship Congress?
Just send your tax return payments directly to Bibi or Zsky...
Cut out the middleman...
Those homeless American military vets can live on the street....
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so George H. W.'s ME policy, which Biden more or less continues, is about votes in Michigan in 2024? okay...
sure, politics are always a consideration, but keep in mind that every US president since Reagan has held Israel accountable for its actions minus our one populist president. that is because our needs, as this game is played, supersede their needs. President Romney, or whomever you want to imagine, would also be asking Israel to tamper down the killing of Palestinians.
No one has said this that I've read on this board.
There are times you seem as mendacious as the Fed that posts here.
Looks like Haaretz was right.
www.theguardian.com
Middle East crisis: World Central Kitchen says only ‘systemic change’ can stop military failures as IDF sacks officers over aid worker deaths – as it happened
WCK says IDF deployed deadly force without regard to protocols in drone strikes in Gaza that killed seven aid workers
did you read the post I replied to? @manichi posted about ‘every US president as if October 7 didn’t happen. October 7 is in fact the product of the policy of ‘every U.S. president. If we don’t recognize that event as a game-changer, we are dooming the ME to perpetual turmoil, violence, and death.
Looks like the appropriate move. Israel has consistently done what it could to avoid civilian deaths. Unfortunately I don’t think this move will cause Biden to back off of his increasing Hamas appeasement policy.Looks like Haaretz was right.
Middle East crisis: World Central Kitchen says only ‘systemic change’ can stop military failures as IDF sacks officers over aid worker deaths – as it happened
WCK says IDF deployed deadly force without regard to protocols in drone strikes in Gaza that killed seven aid workers
This is what I expected they'd find.Looks like Haaretz was right.
Middle East crisis: World Central Kitchen says only ‘systemic change’ can stop military failures as IDF sacks officers over aid worker deaths – as it happened
WCK says IDF deployed deadly force without regard to protocols in drone strikes in Gaza that killed seven aid workers
Haaretz reports of interest to you?
Their reporting uncovers even more egregious action by the Zionist state.
This was no mistake. The WCK was repeatedly attacked until all of the vehicles and aid workers, including on American were destroyed.
Regardless of the facts in this latest incident, the Zionist state has no regrets whatsoever, and will do anything it chooses to do.
As more $Billions (borrowed) are thrown away, the Zionists are doing everything possible to drag the US into war with Iran.
The cash registers of the American War machine go $CHA-CHING!
Reported by Hamas. That's very likely not accurate. It's telling that you take the propaganda of Russians over our partner nation Ukraine, and of Hamas over our long-time ally (by law) Israel.
Mas eats propaganda for breakfast, but it's extremely unlikely that the Gaza Health Ministry numbers are inflated that much. There are a lot of observers on the ground. People see the dead bodies.
The idea that Israel goes out of its way to avoid civilian deaths is just plain laughable. Call the deaths justified if you can bring yourself to do it, but don't claim they are unavoidable.
Misidentified and mistakenly attacked in the fog of war. That's pretty much what I've said. If I didn't, I didn't express myself clearly enough.
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Why is it extremely unlikely? They don't break out the Hamas casualties, which is very likely a large percentage of them given they are who Israel is targeting, and they've been videotaped staging live women and children as casualties. They have a history of it. Dead women and children get sympathy, dead terrorists don't get much. So yes, I think the number of women and children deaths are being inflated, and probably pretty significantly.
Civilian deaths are unavoidable when Hamas likes to fight from schools, hospitals and areas surrounded by civilian non-combatants. They try to avoid those casualties like we do as well, but it's not possible to avoid them completely.
tell me you only started paying attention to Israeli and ME events from 10/7 on without telling me you only started paying attention to Israeli and ME events from 10/7 on...
You sound like the Trumpers. The facts are lies, it's all a conspiracy, and whatever happened wasn't Israel's fault, anyway.
I didn't dispute any facts at all. Hamas' reports have not been proven factual. It's widely believed that they're inaccurate. There's a reason that responsible media adds, "as reported by Hamas Health Agency." The reason is they cannot be considered an accurate fact.
What I said about what happens in war is a fact. Israel is trying to avoid killing civilians, but some civilian deaths are inevitable in this kind of war. Both things are true and factual.
Responsible media doesn't add that. They add "as reported by the Gaza Health Ministry." I'm sure the numbers are inaccurate to a point, but I already explained why they probably aren't inflated to the extent you seem to think they are: there are plenty of observers on the ground who can get a feel for how accurate they are.
Israel doesn't try to avoid killing civilians. That's just a ridiculous assertion. Civilian deaths would happen, anyway, for sure. But Israel does very little to minimize them. I think the Haaretz and Guardian reporting made that clear. Did you stop reading after they mentioned AI? Perhaps you did. If you'd kept going, you'd realize a much more depressing part of the story was that Israel's math for how many civilian deaths are acceptable in an operation are well on the wrong side of the proportionality line.
