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Is Woody gonna struggle to get ANY guards, yet again?

My apologies and I.understand. It’s just when the ship is going down I would receive some comfort from the captain humping it bailing water. My perception of CMW is he has one speed and misplaced priorities so better for me if no video.
all good...and I agree, hard to get a warm fuzzy over the direction the program is heading. We've lowered the bar so much I'm having trouble defining what I would consider a successful season next year to even look like. Quinn and crew will have a hard time selling me on a mid-conf finish and first round exit of the big tourney being a success.
 
Definitely early on...but the trend of cancelled visits from guys that seem like pretty obvious good fits...and that again, seemingly, should be ecstatic with IU being interested and involved (Hickman as an example)...just seems very similar to last years portal season.
Hickman is officially visiting this weekend along with Rice and Payne. And Hickman's visit was postponed not cancelled because he was sick. IU's staff cancelled Walker's visit because they were pursuing better prospects and no longer considered him a fit. Huntley-Hatfield's visit was naturally cancelled because he committed to NC State before his visit was set to take place.
 
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This is basically a "show me" contract year for Woodson. He will need to have a very high level team this upcoming season or he is done. Top 4 conference finish and at least flirt with the sweet 16 or further. Anything less and I suspect he will be shown the door. He has put himself in this situation with his poor roster management and poor coaching. He has shown some flashes of putting things together. Hopefully he realizes the sense of urgency now.
 
Malik, MM and Trey seem like locks to start if they are healthy.

Based on the past two seasons I believe CMW promised JHS and then MM they would start, play big minutes, play through mistakes (not be pulled off the floor), and be given a lot of freedom to create and shoot. What recruit wouldn't want that?

I'm not sure if it's good or bad they haven't added anyone in weeks since the portal opened. Bad in that they need bodies and competituon is tough. Good in that they are being thoughtful and with the coaching changes more talented kids are on the market.
 
Malik, MM and Trey seem like locks to start if they are healthy.

Based on the past two seasons I believe CMW promised JHS and then MM they would start, play big minutes, play through mistakes (not be pulled off the floor), and be given a lot of freedom to create and shoot. What recruit wouldn't want that?

I'm not sure if it's good or bad they haven't added anyone in weeks since the portal opened. Bad in that they need bodies and competituon is tough. Good in that they are being thoughtful and with the coaching changes more talented kids are on the market.
MM was basically unplayable the first 6 weeks of the season and rarely if ever played down the stretch. He was benched multiple times throughout the year.
 
Hickman is officially visiting this weekend along with Rice and Payne. And Hickman's visit was postponed not cancelled because he was sick. IU's staff cancelled Walker's visit because they were pursuing better prospects and no longer considered him a fit. Huntley-Hatfield's visit was naturally cancelled because he committed to NC State before his visit was set to take place.
Good info...thanks... Honestly does change my current views for the better.

Wasn't Carlisle supposed to be coming too? Or is that next weekend?
 
Here's the thought process causing that question.

Malik and Mack are starting, no matter what.

I don't have any idea how Woody rolls when it comes to promising starting roles or playing time...but it isn't a reach to think that most would assume Tucker is coming in as a starter too.

Trey Galloway is still on the roster.

Can he convince any of the main guards visiting, with them knowing who else we're talking to, that they'll start?

Carlisle
Rice
Perkins
Hickman
Conwell

What do you tell Conwell today, when Carlisle is coming this weekend? And then Vice Versa?

I know that's recruiting 101...but something has caused Woody to whiff on guards last year, and so far this year...

For what its worth...I wanted to start a post asking how good we'd be with the following lineup and bench:

Perkins
Carlisle
Conwell
Mgbako
Reneau

Williams
Tucker
Galloway
Newton
Cupps
Leal

But then reality hit me...Tucker is a solid 5 star kid...he's gonna expect to start. Will Galloway accept a lesser role? And then who's "first" to commit of those guards, and who would also commit after the first one did?

I think we end up largely striking out on impact guards. Maybe we get Perkins, which would be great. But I bet it looks more like...

Perkins
Galloway
Tucker
Mgbako
Reneau

Non elite backup big
Non elite/starter level guard
Cupps
Newton
Leal

Probably an NCAA team, but with a strong "bubble" feel to it.


I hope we are approaching this like we're recruiting 6 starters, with a "no one's jobs safe" motto, because the staffs certainly aren't.

5-Williams
4-Bradshaw
3-Mgbako
2-Conwell
1-Rice

Rotation:

Galloway
Reneau
Hickman
Tucker

Redshirt Cupps so he's on schedule with Newton.
 
You’re so cute, you must of blushed when he looked you right in the eye on senior night when he made the assumption that only the “true fans” were at that game. Forgetting all about the other 99.9% of alumni around the world. You’re an absolute twit apologist for an overpaid underachieving failure. Hey maybe you’re actually Woodless himself hiding behind that handle of yours. It only makes sense that you lash out on senior night because you spend more time reading these boards then you do coaching. Windbag, blowhard fool.
Trigger GIF by MOODMAN
 
Woodson has done, and brings quite a lot of good things to IU basketball. You've listed some of them on this thread, I'll add bridging the gap back to RMK...I think he was uniquely suited to help pull that off, and all IU stakeholders...the school, the fans, RMK and his family, the former players...all of them needed that. Big scheme, if Woody ends up falling short again this next year, and gets fired, for the above reason alone, his time at IU won't be a failure.

My main beefs... in no particular order...

He hasn't changed the roster focus, at all, since he arrived in Bloomington. Whatever the reason, justifiable or not, he's had 3 full offseasons to round out his rosters and program with higher level perimeter players, and every single year, we've been talking about needing better guards.

His teams don't consistently play hard, and they don't execute much of anything good consistently. So...consistency... Study basically any top sports program, in any sport, and the common thread is attention to detail, and mastering all the little details. There's is virtually no evidence that would show that Woodson is willing and/or capable of coaching those basic things well.

There are some other things like his substitution patterns, and how he handled X... But if he would improve those 2 main things I mentioned, I think he might start approaching being a solid coach at IU.
Another big contribution he is making to the program is how to evaluate and manage players that are getting paid. We’ve always been “above” that, and it put us 20 years behind other blue bloods.
 
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Malik, MM and Trey seem like locks to start if they are healthy.

Based on the past two seasons I believe CMW promised JHS and then MM they would start, play big minutes, play through mistakes (not be pulled off the floor), and be given a lot of freedom to create and shoot. What recruit wouldn't want that?

I'm not sure if it's good or bad they haven't added anyone in weeks since the portal opened. Bad in that they need bodies and competituon is tough. Good in that they are being thoughtful and with the coaching changes more talented kids are on the market.
Sorry, but if Trey starts, then we’re doing it wrong. Galloway makes a great 6th man and if you want to win big you need someone who is more athletic and can shoot from 3.
 
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MM was basically unplayable the first 6 weeks of the season and rarely if ever played down the stretch. He was benched multiple times throughout the year.

That's simply wrong. He played 30+ min a game in 15 of the last 18 games. He had some tough early games, but he started every game. Not sure what you were watching.
 
Sorry, but if Trey starts, then we’re doing it wrong. Galloway makes a great 6th man and if you want to win big you need someone who is more athletic and can shoot from 3.
Too many people fixated on starting. It's about rotations and minute allocations. Trey Galloway may not start games next year but he'll play every bit of 25-30 mpg.
 
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That's simply wrong. He played 30+ min a game in 15 of the last 18 games. He had some tough early games, but he started every game. Not sure what you were watching.
Lol you literally said that MM was allowed to play through his mistakes and not pulled off the floor. MM cracked 30 minutes one time through January. He played less than 20 minutes in several games in November and December. He most certainly was not allowed to play through his mistakes without repercussion due to promises and preferential treatment. As he learned the system and played better, his minutes went up. That's standard for any freshman.

Must I ask what you were watching?
 
You’re so cute, you must of blushed when he looked you right in the eye on senior night when he made the assumption that only the “true fans” were at that game. Forgetting all about the other 99.9% of alumni around the world. You’re an absolute twit apologist for an overpaid underachieving failure. Hey maybe you’re actually Woodless himself hiding behind that handle of yours. It only makes sense that you lash out on senior night because you spend more time reading these boards then you do coaching. Windbag, blowhard fool.

Also, you say Woodson upgraded the front line talent BUT we don't make the tourney. Hmmm. Maybe it's because he didn't address the lack of shooting at the guard position and that is TOTALLY on Woodson especially considering he left a ship open.

You also seemed to ignore the massive number of games during Woodson's tenure that IU was completely uncompetitive. 17 games where IU lost by 15 or more points. REALLY?? How can you defend that?
Better guards, better guards, better guards
 
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I hope we are approaching this like we're recruiting 6 starters, with a "no one's jobs safe" motto, because the staffs certainly aren't.

5-Williams
4-Bradshaw
3-Mgbako
2-Conwell
1-Rice

Rotation:

Galloway
Reneau
Hickman
Tucker

Redshirt Cupps so he's on schedule with Newton.
No way you’re taking MR out of starting line up
 
This is basically a "show me" contract year for Woodson. He will need to have a very high level team this upcoming season or he is done. Top 4 conference finish and at least flirt with the sweet 16 or further. Anything less and I suspect he will be shown the door. He has put himself in this situation with his poor roster management and poor coaching. He has shown some flashes of putting things together. Hopefully he realizes the sense of urgency now.
Pretty spot on.
Woodson's back is against the wall.
It's close to over produce next yr ..Or we're going a different direction .
It's early ..But he needs 3 guys that can produce like Ware did last yr.
At p.g.And a couple I can get my own. Anytime I want guy's..On the wings.
We shall see...
 
Sorry, but if Trey starts, then we’re doing it wrong. Galloway makes a great 6th man and if you want to win big you need someone who is more athletic and can shoot from 3.
I tend to wonder about whether he's an everyday but then you look at the Kansas game and he basically kept us in it. If he can create and score like he did in that game with consistency, he's one of the best players we have on the floor some days.
 
I’ve never predicted Woodson will make a Final Four, and I’ve never predicted he won’t. I have nothing to defend.
You just love to speak in platitudes don't you.

Where was ANYTHING said about a FF?? Good grief.

I asked (evidently I need to reiterate) how you can defend a coach that in most games against high level competition has not even been competitive?

How can you defend a coach with 17 blowouts?
 
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Lol you literally said that MM was allowed to play through his mistakes and not pulled off the floor. MM cracked 30 minutes one time through January. He played less than 20 minutes in several games in November and December. He most certainly was not allowed to play through his mistakes without repercussion due to promises and preferential treatment. As he learned the system and played better, his minutes went up. That's standard for any freshman.

Must I ask what you were watching?

You just want to argue. I referred to JHS and MM. But if 30+ min a game in 15 of the last 18 represents "repercussions" every player in the country would take it. You can go about your arguing now but the numbers don't lie. Now it's time to for lunch and to gear up for the Masters.
 
You just want to argue. I referred to JHS and MM. But if 30+ min a game in 15 of the last 18 represents "repercussions" every player in the country would take it. You can go about your arguing now but the numbers don't lie. Now it's time to for lunch and to gear up for the Masters.
You literally stated that a selling point for IU was that Woodson lets freshman play through impunity. That is not the case at all. Here are some minutes played by Mgbako through the start of January:

FGCU--19 minutes
Army--16 minutes
Wright St--23 minutes
Louisville--9 minutes
Kennesaw St---14 minutes
Ohio state---13 minutes

Often times Mgbako wasn't on the floor down the stretch the last 5-6 minutes of the game through the first two months of the season. The staff didn't trust him. Yes Mgbako played a ton down the stretch, and it's because his play dramatically improved and the staff trusted him to be on the court in crunch time. That's not limited to Indiana, most programs treat freshman the same way. But that isn't what you initially said, like at all.
 
Last year was disappointing. I think we would have been five games better and in the tournament with Xavier. That said, it was also a rebuild of our front line. We lost TJD, Race, and Kopp. Woodson upgraded all of them in talent with Ware, Reneau, and Mgbako. Also, if you don’t give any credit to Woodson for JHS’s success then we aren’t going to see eye to eye about Woodson.
Issue is he isn’t recruiting to build the program
 
You just love to speak in platitudes don't you.

Where was ANYTHING said about a FF?? Good grief.

I asked (evidently I need to reiterate) how you can defend a coach that in most games against high level competition has not even been competitive?

How can you defend a coach with 17 blowouts?
I listed the positives above. The only thing I am defending is that he should not be fired. Yes, there are red flags, but he has earned the opportunity to fail.
 
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What does that have to do with recruiting? That reply doesn’t make any sense.
It’s possible we will lose Mgbako, Tucker, and Reneau after next year, and he will have to replace them too. The roster will not be consistent from season to season because Woodson is getting good players and developing them into NBA players.
 
It’s possible we will lose Mgbako, Tucker, and Reneau after next year, and he will have to replace them too. The roster will not be consistent from season to season because Woodson is getting good players and developing them into NBA players.
That is called recruiting. We have 6 open scholarships because Woody did not recruit.
 
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You really this ignorant?
You didn’t answer my question. There is nothing different from him getting Ware last year than what he is doing this year. He wants to start five NBA prospects. He’s not going to have five more developing on the bench to replace them next year. He will just go get more.
 
You didn’t answer my question. There is nothing different from him getting Ware last year than what he is doing this year. He wants to start five NBA prospects. He’s not going to have five more developing on the bench to replace them next year. He will just go get more.
This is lazy ass free agent type crap. This isn’t recruiting. Filling your roster with one year hired guns does nothing for building a program. Who has been IU’s best players? Guys like TJD, Yogi, Watford, Coverdale. Not one year guys like Ware. Painter is kicking Woody ass in relationship building and recruiting
 
Would you be excited to hire him at the high school level? How many levels does he need to go down for 40 years in the NBA to excite you?
That’s a bizarre take. Why do you believe those 40 years are worth something? Below average is below average no matter where you do it and how many years you do it.
 
This is lazy ass free agent type crap. This isn’t recruiting. Filling your roster with one year hired guns does nothing for building a program. Who has been IU’s best players? Guys like TJD, Yogi, Watford, Coverdale. Not one year guys like Ware. Painter is kicking Woody ass in relationship building and recruiting
Keith Smart, Dean Garrett, oh wait ....
 
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Lol you literally said that MM was allowed to play through his mistakes and not pulled off the floor. MM cracked 30 minutes one time through January. He played less than 20 minutes in several games in November and December. He most certainly was not allowed to play through his mistakes without repercussion due to promises and preferential treatment. As he learned the system and played better, his minutes went up. That's standard for any freshman.

Must I ask what you were watching?

You literally stated that a selling point for IU was that Woodson lets freshman play through impunity. That is not the case at all. Here are some minutes played by Mgbako through the start of January:

FGCU--19 minutes
Army--16 minutes
Wright St--23 minutes
Louisville--9 minutes
Kennesaw St---14 minutes
Ohio state---13 minutes

Often times Mgbako wasn't on the floor down the stretch the last 5-6 minutes of the game through the first two months of the season. The staff didn't trust him. Yes Mgbako played a ton down the stretch, and it's because his play dramatically improved and the staff trusted him to be on the court in crunch time. That's not limited to Indiana, most programs treat freshman the same way. But that isn't what you initially said, like at all.

You realize they played into mid-March, right? The season didn't end 1/1/24. You cherry pick six games (one he played 23 min) from Nov/Dec as a meaningful sample. No statistician I guess. I'll stand by my statement. He played 30+ and through mistakes a majority of the time. Especially the end of the season.
 
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Oh wait what? Do we list every single guy Knight recruited?
Nope, but I'm saying key pieces of that last NC team were hired guns. The prior season showed he wouldn't have won without them.

The recruiting for this coming season was abysmal. Lots of ground to make up. There will however, be a couple, probably 3 Woodson High School recruits starting next season.
 
Nope, but I'm saying key pieces of that last NC team were hired guns. The prior season showed he wouldn't have won without them.

The recruiting for this coming season was abysmal. Lots of ground to make up. There will however, be a couple, probably 3 Woodson High School recruits starting next season.
Ok thank you for acknowledging his lack of recruiting. That’s my point. I have no issue going and getting a player to fill a hole but you can’t not recruit at all and then go out and try to piece a roster together from the portal.
 
Ok thank you for acknowledging his lack of recruiting. That’s my point. I have no issue going and getting a player to fill a hole but you can’t not recruit at all and then go out and try to piece a roster together from the portal.
He can’t do that yet that is exactly what he is doing.
 
Ok thank you for acknowledging his lack of recruiting. That’s my point. I have no issue going and getting a player to fill a hole but you can’t not recruit at all and then go out and try to piece a roster together from the portal.
That's one way. Given the sheer number of players entering the portal and the amounts of cash involved, I don't know how feasible it will be to think you can keep high level kids for four years any more.

Best case, it works out like it does for Illinois. Worst case, IMHO, next season looks a lot like this one did.
 
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