Is White Christian Nationalism good for America?

[Lucy01]

Let's breakdown some other phrases in the same way:

Black Lives Matter

People's Republic of China

Russian National Union

Democratic Party

Inflation Reduction Act . . .

We need more of all of these, too?

All those are as worthless as tits on a Boar Hog!

 

[BradStevens]

I fear linking the article and its source may bias the context and answers to this question, but here you go.

White Christian Nationalism

She's catastrophizing a whole lot there. A lot of it is silly. The USA isn't repealing the First Amendment. It isn't going to legislate to keep women out of the workforce, and it isn't going to enact some type of Biblical law.

People identifying as religious is on the down swing here. I doubt that changes anytime soon:

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

All those are as worthless as tits on a Boar Hog!

As worthless as tits on Lucy . . .

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

She's catastrophizing a whole lot there. A lot of it is silly. The USA isn't repealing the First Amendment. It isn't going to legislate to keep women out of the workforce, and it isn't going to enact some type of Biblical law.

People identifying as religious is on the down swing here. I doubt that changes anytime soon:

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewresearch.org

The US isn't going to enact Sharia anytime soon, either, but that doesn't stop people from getting their panties in a wad about it.

 

[Lucy01]

As worthless as tits on Lucy . . .

Good point.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The US isn't going to enact Sharia anytime soon, either, but that doesn't stop people from getting their panties in a wad about it.

Many people in the U.S. live according to Sharia.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think she argues that it's been a decades long, very deliberate effort that sort of dovetailed into the rise of Trump. Lending their backing helped lift up Trump. It was a calculated risk to throw their chips in with the MAGA wave, but it's definitely paid off. I don't think you give Evangelicals enough credit for the power and influence they have in some political circles. No Republican president has won without their buy in and support since Nixon, maybe before.

I don’t disagree with your point about Evangelicals and Trump. But I don’t think they are hooked up in series. They are hooked up in parallel.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

The US isn't going to enact Sharia anytime soon, either, but that doesn't stop people from getting their panties in a wad about it.

Will you admit how something like Sharia is actually implemented? Along that line, how would you suggest that America prevents it's implementation.
I'll give you a few minutes yo ruin your own comment.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Many people in the U.S. live according to Sharia.

And they are free to do so, but the government isn't free to impose it on the populace. And they aren't going to.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

And they are free to do so

Not all of it. We acquiesce.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Not all of it. We acquiesce.

Oh FFS. They are free to do so to the extent that it is not inconsistent with federal and state laws, just as any other religious group is. I respect pedantry, but you're just being ornery at this point.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Oh FFS. They are free to do so to the extent that it is not inconsistent with federal and state laws, just as any other religious group is. I respect pedantry, but you're just being ornery at this point.

Sharia is much much more than religion.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Sharia is much much more than religion.

And that's a meaningless platitude.

 

[BradStevens]

That’s a fair argument. But I don’t think it applies. Islam and socialism enjoy a measure of objectivity from many. Christian Nationalism doesn’t benefit from that. This thread proves the point.

One thread of comments on a sports message board proves that no one can possibly be objective about Christian Nationalism unless they are, themselves, Christian Nationalists?

Sharia is much much more than religion.

Hopelessly contradicting yourself.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Sharia is much much more than religion.

I think that I know why you said this and are defending Sharia, but I am 100% sure that I would like to read it in your own words. so?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

One thread of comments on a sports message board proves that no one can possibly be objective about Christian Nationalism unless they are, themselves, Christian Nationalists?


Hopelessly contradicting yourself.

?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

And that's a meaningless platitude.

“They are free to do so to the extent that it is not inconsistent with federal and state laws, just as any other religious group is”

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

“They are free to do so to the extent that it is not inconsistent with federal and state laws, just as any other religious group is”

Changes nothing. You're wasting our time.

 

[DontComeAroundMuch]

Let's breakdown some other phrases in the same way:

Black Lives Matter

People's Republic of China

Russian National Union

Democratic Party

Inflation Reduction Act . . .

We need more of all of these, too?

Actual organizations, countries or laws with track records to be examined.

WCN is open to interpretation.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I read an article about White Christian Nationalism and I’m curious what the overwhelming view of it is on this board. So I’m using a simple pole to gauge your opinion but feel free to add comments of why you do or don’t support WCN.

Eppy looks like there’s a documentary on this on prime called god & country.

 

[mcmurtry66]

This documentary is right on point. The ideal america is a white america. Trump is the farthest thing from Christian values yet secured 81 percent of the Christian vote. Trump plays on racist tropes and it’s most certainly in furtherance of racist beliefs.

 

[Digressions]

Results matter.
Education management is a failed concept as far as State/Federal involvement is concerned.

The ignorance of American students should embarrass every citizen

Nothing but downhill after the creation of the DOE...

I love our parochial school. I wouldn't be against finding a marginal solution whereby the school could add more students. They have capacity, but there aren't enough families willing/able to pay the tuition.

The school has the highest test scores in the county. I think there are 6-8 students/class. 18-25/ class in public. The teachers at the parochial (generally speaking) are there until a higher paying public job opens up.

I would add that if a student has a behavioral issue or learning disability, they are sent to a public school where there are resources for both. That might help explain the test scores.

Also, the DoE was created in 1979. It just so happens that the decline of the middle-class can be traced back to that time. In fact, 1979 happens to be the year manufacturing jobs peaked nominally.

I would guess that a parents' pay has a greater correlation to student performance than any other factor. I could be wrong but it's got to be up there.

Producing worse outcomes/dollar, so we should stop spending dollars, isn't a logical argument, imo. There are too many other factors. Life has taught me that money can't solve every problem, but the lack thereof is never a positive. You’re not going to send the kids on 2nd street to our parochial and maintain those test scores. To make large changes-and let's call it what it is- is just an excuse to shift public funds to a preferred sect/constituency.

Also, ADHD, ODD, ADD, have probably always been around, and are only higher now, because we're more aware/test for those more. Autism, on the other hand, is legitimately growing. That too plays a small role.

 

[DontComeAroundMuch]

I love our parochial school. I wouldn't be against finding a marginal solution whereby the school could add more students. They have capacity, but there aren't enough families willing/able to pay the tuition.

The school has the highest test scores in the county. I think there are 6-8 students/class. 18-25/ class in public. The teachers at the parochial (generally speaking) are there until a higher paying public job opens up.

I would add that if a student has a behavioral issue or learning disability, they are sent to a public school where there are resources for both. That might help explain the test scores.

Also, the DoE was created in 1979. It just so happens that the decline of the middle-class can be traced back to that time. In fact, 1979 happens to be the year manufacturing jobs peaked nominally.

I would guess that a parents' pay has a greater correlation to student performance than any other factor. I could be wrong but it's got to be up there.

Producing worse outcomes/dollar, so we should stop spending dollars, isn't a logical argument, imo. There are too many other factors. Life has taught me that money can't solve every problem, but the lack thereof is never a positive. You’re not going to send the kids on 2nd street to our parochial and maintain those test scores. To make large changes-and let's call it what it is- is just an excuse to shift public funds to a preferred sect/constituency.

Also, ADHD, ODD, ADD, have probably always been around, and are only higher now, because we're more aware/test for those more. Autism, on the other hand, is legitimately growing. That too plays a small role.

So your theory is that the declining public school outcomes is chiefly due to an allegedly hollowing out of the middle class? It's an interesting theory, not one I've heard before. The shrinking of the middle class is driven chiefly by more American household's entering the upper income and upper middle-class strata. Look it up, it's true. Defining the middle class has always been an amorphus endeavor any way.

Would you willingly admit the problem with our public schools is by and large not a funding one? Or perhaps a misallocation of funds towards administrators and unions at the expense of teachers and classroom resources?

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

The shrinking of the middle class is driven chiefly by more American household's entering the upper income and upper middle-class strata.

Well, that explains why Biden won reelection in a landslide and the MAGA movement never became popular.

 

[Digressions]

So your theory is that the declining public school outcomes is chiefly due to an allegedly hollowing out of the middle class? It's an interesting theory, not one I've heard before. The shrinking of the middle class is driven chiefly by more American household's entering the upper income and upper middle-class strata. Look it up, it's true. Defining the middle class has always been an amorphus endeavor any way.

Would you willingly admit the problem with our public schools is by and large not a funding one? Or perhaps a misallocation of funds towards administrators and unions at the expense of teachers and classroom resources?

I agree about the definition of middle-class being amorphous. Unfortunately, most of our political discourse is this way. Real-wages, wealth distribution, ect. are examples of why I think the middle-class is shrinking and why others say Democrats have left them behind. I think most people and economists would agree.

I will admit that by and large it is not a funding issue. I don't have a problem conceding that our funding isn't allocated as efficiently as it could be.

 

[Spartans9312]

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

One of the key parts of whatever definition you use is the emphasis on nation rather than nation-state (I know Britannica has an either-or in there, but generally, people use the term nationalism for the former). Germany is a nation-state. The German nation is a national identity that includes Germans both within and without Germany. German nationalism promotes the interests of the German nation, not Germany the state. I use Germany as an example, because it offers a readily accessible lesson in the excesses of nationalism. The German nation was never unified in the 19th C. largely because the Hohenzollerns didn't want to play second fiddle to the Habsburgs. But eventually Hitler came along, and German nationalism was an important component of Nazi ideology that directly led to much of his Eastern policy: the Anschluss and annexation of the Sudetenland to unify all Germans, and then Lebensraum to provide for the German people (at the expense of others, like the Slavs).

But not all instances of nationalism are so readily dismissed as dangerous or evil. Modern examples of nationalism that seem to be romanticized by many might include Scottish and Catalan nationalism, which are really just separatist movements, and don't appear to want to promote Scottish or Catalan interests at the expense of others. So I think one might argue that nationalism generically can be positive or negative, depending on how far one takes it, ranging from simple self-determination to supremacy over others.

However, in a multinational state like the US, most nationalist movements are not nearly so generic. You won't find a lot of American Nationalists (but see below re: MAGA). Instead, you have white nationalists and black nationalists, and so forth, and those modifiers don't just describe the members, but define the ideology, as well. So a White Christian Nationalist isn't just a nationalist who happens to be a white Christian. Rather, he's a nationalist that defines his national identity specifically as limited to white Christians, and will promote their interests over others. Taken to the furthest extreme, he will argue that non-whites and non-Christians aren't truly Americans and ultimately should be removed from the country.

These people truly exist, but I don't think they make up the majority of MAGA. I think MAGA are mostly nativists. They might be more comfortable around other white Christians, just for the familiarity, but they won't deny that a natural born black or Jewish citizen is or ought to be truly a member of the American nation. Rather, as is being discussed in another thread, the extreme ends of their ideology are found in their rabid opposition to immigration, both legal and illegal. In that sense, MAGA might be seen as a rather hardcore version of that generic American Nationalism that I said above is generally rare in a country like ours.

How much of the anti-immigration stance is based on (perceived) economic impact ("they took our jobs") vs. safety/security vs. cultural, racial or ethnic differences? Nobody knows the answer, but I wonder if there are other factors than the latter which are driving more of the anti-immigration feelings.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

How much of the anti-immigration stance is based on (perceived) economic impact ("they took our jobs") vs. safety/security vs. cultural, racial or ethnic differences? Nobody knows the answer, but I wonder if there are other factors than the latter which are driving more of the anti-immigration feelings.

I think it's mostly economic, but I do think ethnicity can make it easier for those economic issues to be brought to the forefront. Stop for a bathroom break at a truck stop sometime, and you'll see how an entire industry of white men has been replaced with Sikhs and Mexicans. I don't think it would stick out so clearly if they had been replaced by, say, Canadians.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think it's mostly economic, but I do think ethnicity can make it easier for those economic issues to be brought to the forefront. Stop for a bathroom break at a truck stop sometime, and you'll see how an entire industry of white men has been replaced with Sikhs and Mexicans. I don't think it would stick out so clearly if they had been replaced by, say, Canadians.

Spot on. That’s what all the Bosnians here got into. Short path and solid pay