Indiana Ranked Eighth in Preseason Poll . . .
- Thread starter Eban
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How about how OG and Morgan develop over this year. some guys will never give Crean any credit because they are blinded my their hatred for him. He could win a championship and they would find something to bitch about.
Can Crean help individual guys develop? Never questioned that.
But can he take guys rated 50-150 out of high school and coach them up to a level to be able to compete with other teams running the fast paced offense he wants to run? The results over his entire career say no.
One of two things has to change: Crean has to run an offense that values possessions and cuts down on TO's given the talent level he's recruiting/developing, or 2) he has to recruit at a higher level than he is. Not a difficult concept to understand.
With DWade. What's he done without him?
What has Crean done against Purdue without Cody Zeller?
Looking forward to this . . .
Tell me what coaches has won big without great players at an elite level. Coach K has had great players or how about Dean Smith and even RMK's best years had great players. The last time I checked we won this year against PU.
He hasn't shown anything close to that capability at IU, and, other than one season (out of 17 total), is teams haven't come close to making a Final Four.
Who recruits those great players, Scott? If Crean's teams aren't talented enough to get there, then he's not done a sufficient job of recruiting, has he?
Just making the argument about he has to have great players to win big and that can be said for every coach. The years that coach K has not had as much talent they lost early and when he has a roster full of great players he wins.
So, you're acknowledging that Crean has failed to recruit players at a talent level sufficient to make Final Fours, yet you've been unwilling to acknowledge this for some time. Why?
I think he is recruiting well enough and it is not like IU has ever recruited at the level of a Duke or UK so to me he is not doing badly recruiting.
You're right, it's not bad, but it's not good enough to make Final Fours. When some of us point out that you're happy with mediocrity, this is why. You've essentially acknowledged that "not bad" is "good enough". That's fine, but please save your protests that you really want more, since you've admitted that's not really the case.
I am not happy just getting to the sweet 16 but again as a fan who is not a big donor I have no influence who the coach is. Please tell me again what you are doing to show your unhappiness to the athletic department since you are not going to take mediocrity.
So, now you're saying that Sweet 16's aren't good enough, the components that contribute to high levels of achievement aren't good enough, but you're nonetheless okay with Crean because you lack influence over the program? Further, given your lack of influence, you don't believe any discussion concerning the state of the program is warranted? Why, Scott, do you post here then?
Was BK doing a "good enough" job his last decade at IU? A hall of fame coach had worse results than TC has had his last 5. And TC is a loser and BK revered. You can't have it both ways. The game has changed and HOF coaches miss out on the Final Four at a regular rate these days. We will learn a lot about where this program stands and where TC is taking it this next season.
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BK went to a Final Four in his last decade, though his last 5 years were less than spectacular. Of course, he'd won 3 national championships by that time, too, so he had a little bit of history behind him. Crean has no such record of achievement.
So a couple championships gives a guy a free pass for life?Or could it be the game changed and coaches and players got better? And BK could not adjust accordingly? Rather have a coach that has time to change than an old grouch azz that was being run over at every turn. How old was Dean Smith before he won a NC? Was he instantly a better coach the day he won the NC? Was his system magically better than previous seasons when he was beaten before the Final 4?
Bob Knight was more than capable and willing to change...In fact he did....When he won his first national championship, dunking the ball was not allowed....The three point shot did not exist. Those were major changes to the college game....thats just two changes...How about the shot clock? Your argument that RMK was unwilling to change is silly.
"A free pass for life"? Where did I make that claim? (Hint: I didn't, but you had to make something up to bolster your weak argument.) And, as for BK not changing with the times, you obviously didn't follow the program during the entirety of his IU tenure. Change, in many respects, was abundant. He was a million miles from perfect as a person and not always on point as a coach, but you seem to want to make an argument for equivalence by using Crean's best years compared with Knight's worst. It simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny, and it says as much about your lack of IU hoops knowledge as it does about Crean's shortcomings as a coach.
Did BK have to come in and rebuild a program from the ground up? Did BK have to stabilize a program and balance recruiting classes when he walked into IU? I did not compare TC's best years only his relevant seasons at IU. You said they were his best so you are agreeing that TC has things turned around and now needs to build on that and keep the ball rolling or be shown the door. You TC haters are not superior and more knowledgeable about IU hoops than those that have taken the wait and see approach. TC has earned more time as the head coach and that seems to burn a few of your azz's. If he fails to reach a Final Four the next couple seasons then so be it. IU can move on knowing TC was given every chance to prove himself. If TC wins a title at IU a few of you guys will still be on here whining like two year olds. Throwing tantrums on a public forum daily proves what?
but in his up years he's not even going as far as Ohio State and Michigan in their up years. is it okay if we ask to complete with those schools, scott? is it?
and no one ever ever ever ever said we recruited like Duke or UK but folks think we could be maybe 85% of those programs. but thank you for sharing that same thought for literally the millionth time. you'll say we all repeat ourselves but it's "Ground Hog Day" every day with you, bro. and then you won't respond to my points but then you'll post the same thing later today. love it.
read your own posts, clown....You have the tantrum gig down pat.....
Crean decided to tear down the house and totally rebuild. In other words, it was a choice, not a requirement. Using it as an excuse for uneven performance is weak. As for being his "best", that simply means he's had some decent years mixed in with really poor ones. That shouldn't be hard for you to comprehend. The rest of your post only reinforces both your limited IU hoops knowledge as well as your mediocre expectations. It's why you're perfectly pleased with the rebuilding as it enters Year 9, with no end in sight.
hmmmm. wondering: why did he have to re-stabilize the program in years 6 and 7? so weird
and why would we be here whining like two-year olds if he were to win a title? dude, that is the whole point.
I don't blame the pro-creaners for sticking up for their man but the weirdness of their logic surprises me every time. fact is the 8th highest paid man at this profession should have a resume that screams success. he doesn't.
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It's why you're perfectly pleased with the rebuilding as it enters Year 9, with no end in sight.[/QUOTE]
funny how so many anti-RMK types want to spout about how IU is not an attractive program for head coaches...yet the $$$ is Top 10.
When you rebuild from the ground up the classes are out of balance as even you TC haters should know. I am far from a TC apologist and would be perfectly happy with BS walking thru the doors. You guys act like there are ten coaches IU can choose from that will do better and add banners at staggering rates. If you guys were realists as you claim and so knowledgeable you would also know no coach out there that would come is a guarantee upgrade to TC. Stability and conference championships along with sweet sixteens show just how bad a coach TC really is. Lack of knowledge is your battle cry yet lack of reality is your real problem.
J
funny how so many anti-RMK types want to spout about how IU is not an attractive program for head coaches...yet the $$$ is Top 10.[/QUOTE]
The fact we are paying top 8 money doesn't faze them. I guess they think we are getting what we paid for.Bizzare.
funny how so many anti-RMK types want to spout about how IU is not an attractive program for head coaches...yet the $$$ is Top 10.[/QUOTE]
The fact we are paying top 8 money doesn't faze them. I guess they think we are getting what we paid for.Bizzare.
wait, our problems in years 6 and 7 were because classes were out of balance due to a rebuild that started 6 or 7 years prior? hehehehehe. okay
and no ten coaches out there we can get can get us past the S16? none of the young coaches you see today will ever do that at any school?
scott drew has done about the same after rebuilding from a much, much worse situation. IU is basically on par with Baylor for success the first 8 years after. isn't that rad?
you aren't even trying, my man! wow.
He beat their ass this year on his way to an out right conference title. Am I missing something here?
Plenty.
Crean has ONE win over Purdue without Zeller. He won an outright B1G RS title in a year the conference was weak and IU had an unbelievably favorable schedule.
How'd they do in the BTT? Question: How many RS Big 10 champs lose their opening game in the BTT?
Too lazy to go all the way back but In the last 15yrs
the RS champ has lost in the first round twice...us, and 2003 UW
Their have been three RS champs lose in the second round, IU accounts for two of them. 2002/13
"rad"? Whatever...
Two outright titles in the Big Ten in the space of four years and a top ten ranking going into next year is pretty good if you ask me. In fact, in the last five years we've had a lot to cheer about. Big Ten titles, 25+ win seasons, and the second weekend of tournament play three of the last five years. I want more too as I'm sure Crean does but to act like his whole coaching tenure has been a failure is stupid.
After a dismal first three years that weren't his fault, in the space of five years he's given IU as many Big Ten titles as RMK did in his last 10 years in Bloomington. It's not Tom Creans fault that we've only been to one final four since 1994 but he's the one catching all the hell for everyone's frustration. It's dumb.
How many years did IU go without so much as an elite eight after the '76 championship? Five? Let's talk about the six years between the '81' and '87 titles. One improbable elite eight in '84 followed by a train wreck in '85 and a first round flame out in '86. What if Crean had the same records for the '82, '83, 84, 85 and '86 seasons in the last five years?
Some of the same people here would be screaming for his head. Dumb.
I think he's doing ok. I'm really rooting for him the get us to the final four next year just to shut some of these people up.
TC isn't a bad coach but you don't help him by comparing him to RMK.
You mention all the seasons that were huge successes and skip the great seasons that made those bearable. At least you were fair and balanced
Some of those years we didn't make it far in the tourney were when it was much more difficult to make the tourney. TCs 2012 sweet 16 doesn't happen with the old rules
You don't seem to understand that you can have down years if you balance it with great seasons. But if you are balancing down years with just good years you will have issues.
I won't get into the fact that you also ignored that TC did have a coaching record before IU and it was very, meh
