Indiana Ranked Eighth in Preseason Poll . . .

[IUT]

TC isn't a bad coach but you don't help him by comparing him to RMK.

You mention all the seasons that were huge successes and skip the great seasons that made those bearable. At least you were fair and balanced

Some of those years we didn't make it far in the tourney were when it was much more difficult to make the tourney. TCs 2012 sweet 16 doesn't happen with the old rules

You don't seem to understand that you can have down years if you balance it with great seasons. But if you are balancing down years with just good years you will have issues.

I won't get into the fact that you also ignored that TC did have a coaching record before IU and it was very, meh

"You don't seem to understand that you can have down years if you balance it with great seasons"

And you don't understand my point that maybe his "great season" is coming up and that his "down years" have been every bit as good as Bob Knights.

By the way, how NCAA tournaments did Bob Knight go to at Army?

 

[hondo314]

"rad"? Whatever...

Two outright titles in the Big Ten in the space of four years and a top ten ranking going into next year is pretty good if you ask me. In fact, in the last five years we've had a lot to cheer about. Big Ten titles, 25+ win seasons, and the second weekend of tournament play three of the last five years. I want more too as I'm sure Crean does but to act like his whole coaching tenure has been a failure is stupid.

After a dismal first three years that weren't his fault, in the space of five years he's given IU as many Big Ten titles as RMK did in his last 10 years in Bloomington. It's not Tom Creans fault that we've only been to one final four since 1994 but he's the one catching all the hell for everyone's frustration. It's dumb.

How many years did IU go without so much as an elite eight after the '76 championship? Five? Let's talk about the six years between the '81' and '87 titles. One improbable elite eight in '84 followed by a train wreck in '85 and a first round flame out in '86. What if Crean had the same records for the '82, '83, 84, 85 and '86 seasons in the last five years?

Some of the same people here would be screaming for his head. Dumb.

I think he's doing ok. I'm really rooting for him the get us to the final four next year just to shut some of these people up.

The NCAA tourney committee kind of let us know what they thought of our 25+ win season (weak pre-conf sos) and a wildly unbalanced BT schedule when they gave us a 5 seed.

Year three was his fault. should have had juniors on that team but our culture of high player turnover started early.

i don't care what bob did after he stopped caring or what davis or sampson did. what does that have to do with what iu is capable of? but i do love the BK comparisons. dude had won two ncaa titles by 82. we felt like we were in good hands. crean has won two conference titles and advanced past the S16 4 times in 17 years. YEEEHAW!

he's doing okay for a top 50 coach but he's not doing near as well as his similarly paid peers, is he? look it up.

i'll be rooting too but please admit we're paying for Boardwalk and getting Illinois Ave results.

 

[IUT]

You're seriously comparing Tom Crean to Bob Knight?

OMG . . .

OMG, you didn't even read the post. OMG!

 

[IUT]

"Year three was his fault."

You sound like an idiot Purdue fan. Seriously.

 

[hondo314]

"You don't seem to understand that you can have down years if you balance it with great seasons"

And you don't understand my point that maybe his "great season" is coming up and that his "down years" have been every bit as good as Bob Knights.

By the way, how NCAA tournaments did Bob Knight go to at Army?

17 years in and great season # 2 and the first since 2003 is on deck? hahahha

i bet we take a step back next year minus yogi. hope not but i could see us losing NCAA 2nd round easily. why? coaching.

army? omfg. tip for you: if you have to make outlandish rationalizations to make your highly paid coach fit, he's not earning his pay. army??? wow

 

[Shirtsandskins]

"You don't seem to understand that you can have down years if you balance it with great seasons"

And you don't understand my point that maybe his "great season" is coming up and that his "down years" have been every bit as good as Bob Knights.

By the way, how NCAA tournaments did Bob Knight go to at Army?

So you expect people to be happy that TCs down years are as good as RMKs? Without seeing a great season? You are asking for faith in a guy with a long record of not meeting those hopes

And when did RMK have a season like 2013-14?

Army? Seriously? You won't count three years at IU for TC but you want to count coaching at a school that doesn't allow anyone in over 6'6" and oh yeah it was during the Vietnam

 

[Shirtsandskins]

"Year three was his fault."

You sound like an idiot Purdue fan. Seriously.

It would've been better if not for the roster turnover

 

[IUT]

So you expect people to be happy that TCs down years are as good as RMKs? Without seeing a great season? You are asking for faith in a guy with a long record of not meeting those hopes

And when did RMK have a season like 2013-14?

Army? Seriously? You won't count three years at IU for TC but you want to count coaching at a school that doesn't allow anyone in over 6'6" and oh yeah it was during the Vietnam

The Vietnam war meant there were MORE people trying to get into West Point not fewer. Also, were you around for the '85 season?

 

[UncleMark]

Two outright titles in the Big Ten in the space of four years and a top ten ranking going into next year is pretty good if you ask me. In fact, in the last five years we've had a lot to cheer about. Big Ten titles, 25+ win seasons, and the second weekend of tournament play three of the last five years. I want more too as I'm sure Crean does but to act like his whole coaching tenure has been a failure is stupid.

It's the wild inconsistencies that have caused CTC so much grief. We went from the high of CZ's last year (and the disappointment of the Syracuse debacle) to missing the freaking tournament. Then we had all the off court stuff, followed by Maui and Duke this past year. For me, that's when I had had enough. It took quite a while for me to climb down off the Fire Crean bandwagon, but I ate my crow and have to admit he did a helluva job (albeit with the stumbles at PSU and in the BTT). We beat Kentucky, which is always worth bonus points, and our run ended when we hit a totally out-of-character shooting buzzsaw in UNC.

The key now is can we sustain and improve upon this past year's performance. Yes, we've lost talent, but that's how it is in college basketball, and truly "elite" (god I'm learning to hate that word) programs deal with it year in and year out. A years maturity for our returning talent and what we have coming in should easily equal what we're losing -- and then some. If CTC is truly an upper echelon coach, this coming year is his time to show it.

 

[IUT]

17 years in and great season # 2 and the first since 2003 is on deck? hahahha

i bet we take a step back next year minus yogi. hope not but i could see us losing NCAA 2nd round easily. why? coaching.

army? omfg. tip for you: if you have to make outlandish rationalizations to make your highly paid coach fit, he's not earning his pay. army??? wow

You people are the ones talking about Creans record at Marquette in the course of an argument that includes Bob Knight. If that's the case then the only thing there is to compare to is Bob Knight's record at Army unless you want to talk about TT which you probably don't.

Facts are facts little fella.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

The Vietnam war meant there were MORE people trying to get into West Point not fewer. Also, were you around for the '85 season?

Hmmm, Trying to get into the Army during the Vietnam war? Instead of using the college deferment doesn't seem like the smart choice.

I was in HS in 85

 

[IUT]

It's the wild inconsistencies that have caused CTC so much grief. We went from the high of CZ's last year (and the disappointment of the Syracuse debacle) to missing the freaking tournament. Then we had all the off court stuff, followed by Maui and Duke this past year. For me, that's when I had had enough. It took quite a while for me to climb down off the Fire Crean bandwagon, but I ate my crow and have to admit he did a helluva job (albeit with the stumbles at PSU and in the BTT). We beat Kentucky, which is always worth bonus points, and our run ended when we hit a totally out-of-character shooting buzzsaw in UNC.

The key now is can we sustain and improve upon this past year's performance. Yes, we've lost talent, but that's how it is in college basketball, and truly "elite" (god I'm learning to hate that word) programs deal with it year in and year out. A years maturity for our returning talent and what we have coming in should easily equal what we're losing -- and then some. If CTC is truly an upper echelon coach, this coming year is his time to show it.

Replace the term "upper echelon" with "elite" (I hate the word too) and I agree with that last sentence. He's already an upper echelon coach who has proven he's not in over his head. The next step remains to be taken.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

You people are the ones talking about Creans record at Marquette in the course of an argument that includes Bob Knight. If that's the case then the only thing there is to compare to is Bob Knight's record at Army unless you want to talk about TT which you probably don't.

Facts are facts little fella.

Comparing Army to Marquette is....to quote you "DUMB"

We have all admitted that RMK wasn't the same his last ten years....but that doesn't stop people from making the comparison as if RMK at his worst makes TC his equal.

That's like using Willie Mays stats with the Mets and saying that the Reds should be thrilled with Jay Bruce

 

[IUT]

Hmmm, Trying to get into the Army during the Vietnam war? Instead of using the college deferment doesn't seem like the smart choice.

I was in HS in 85

Enrollment went up at West Point during that period. Same for the Naval Academy. There are always way more applicants for the Service academies than there are available slots. During the Vietnam war they expanded the number of slots. Get it?

 

[IUT]

Comparing Army to Marquette is....to quote you "DUMB"

We have all admitted that RMK wasn't the same his last ten years....but that doesn't stop people from making the comparison as if equally RMK at his worst makes TC has s equal. That's like using Willie Mays stats with the Mets and saying that the Reds should be thrilled with Jay Bruce

It's the only thing there is to compare with. If it gets your panties in a bunch then stop bringing up Marquette.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

It's the only thing there is to compare with. If it gets your panties in a bunch then stop bringing up Marquette.

Why are you comparing them at all? Why do you think that putting TC next to RMK is good for TC?

We aren't using Marquette compared against RMK(that would be you) we are using all the available data to judge a coach. You are cherry picking your data to reach your preferred conclusion

If a regular poster posted with your "aggressive style" I'm guessing they'd have issues with the mods

 

[Shirtsandskins]

Enrollment went up at West Point during that period. Same for the Naval Academy. There are always way more applicants for the Service academies than there are available slots. During the Vietnam war they expanded the number of slots. Get it?

That wouldn't surprise me, but expanding the slots doesn't mean that they were choosing the academy to avoid the war. I'd bet it was the opposite. Got it?

 

[IUT]

Why are you comparing them at all? Why do you think that putting TC next to RMK is good for TC?

We aren't using Marquette compared against RMK(that would be you) we are using all the available data to judge a coach. You are cherry picking your data to reach your preferred conclusion

If a regular poster posted with your "aggressive style" I'm guessing they'd have issues with the mods

LOL!!!!

You think this is "aggressive"? You are a delicate little flower.

Geez, this board certainly has changed in the last 20 years.

 

[IUT]

That wouldn't surprise me, but expanding the slots doesn't mean that they were choosing the academy to avoid the war. I'd bet it was the opposite. Got it?

The POINT was that the man power pool was greater during Knight's tenure. That point was in response to the implication that since the Vietnam war was going on it was even MORE difficult to coach at Army.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

LOL!!!!

You think this is "aggressive"? You are a delicate little flower.

Geez, this board certainly has changed in the last 20 years.

I'm delicate? Aren't you the one that deactivated my DM because I was talking about TC privately?

I've been warned once, for mocking a poster...kinda like you just did to me...and had my DMs deactivated...but yeah I'm the delicate flower....or maybe, just maybe it's that you have a set of rules for us and a different set for you?

 

[Shirtsandskins]

The POINT was that the man power pool was greater during Knight's tenure. That point was in response to the implication that since the Vietnam war was going on it was even MORE difficult to coach at Army.

Expanding the open slots doesn't impact recruiting. One has nothing to with the other. You act as if the bball players were coming from the student body....it's not a HS

RMK was going into recruits homes and convincing them to pass up playing for schools like Lehigh to join the Army during our most unpopular war.

But I guess since there were more spots that should make it easy....good grief

 

[IUT]

I'm delicate? Aren't you the one that deactivated my DM because I was talking about TC privately?

I've been warned once, for mocking a poster...kinda like you just did to me...and had my DMs deactivated...but yeah I'm the delicate flower....or maybe, just maybe it's that you have a set of rules for us and a different set for you?

If that hadn't been a mistake you wouldn't be posting right now. And "mocking a poster"? I can't speak for the other mods but I've never warned anybody about "mocking a poster". I have the same set of rules for everybody no matter what they pack in their shorts. Now dry your eyes, wipe your nose, and let's move on.

 

[IUT]

Expanding the open slots doesn't impact recruiting. One has nothing to with the other. You act as if the bball players were coming from the student body....it's not a HS

RMK was going into recruits homes and convincing them to pass up playing for schools like Lehigh to join the Army during our most unpopular war.

But I guess since there were more spots that should make it easy....good grief

Yeah, and the athletic departments operate in a vacuum where a large increase in enrollment doesn't affect them at all. Got it.

 

[IUT]

Yeah, and the athletic departments operate in a vacuum where a large increase in enrollment doesn't affect them at all. Got it.

By the way, Dr. Hawking, you realize you're arguing against your own original point, right?

 

[Shirtsandskins]

If that hadn't been a mistake you wouldn't be posting right now. And "mocking a poster"? I can't speak for the other mods but I've never warned anybody about "mocking a poster". I have the same set of rules for everybody no matter what they pack in their shorts. Now dry your eyes, wipe your nose, and let's move on.

If it was a mistake why am still not able to starbDM conversations?

 

[IUT]

If it was a mistake why am still not able to starbDM conversations?

Because I'm still learning this system. I'll go back and try to fix it.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

Because I'm still learning this system. I'll go back and try to fix it.

Ok thank you

 

[IUT]

Ok thank you

Try it now.

 

[IU Scott]

TC isn't a bad coach but you don't help him by comparing him to RMK.

You mention all the seasons that were huge successes and skip the great seasons that made those bearable. At least you were fair and balanced

Some of those years we didn't make it far in the tourney were when it was much more difficult to make the tourney. TCs 2012 sweet 16 doesn't happen with the old rules

You don't seem to understand that you can have down years if you balance it with great seasons. But if you are balancing down years with just good years you will have issues.

I won't get into the fact that you also ignored that TC did have a coaching record before IU and it was very, meh

Actually before 85 if you made the tournament it was easier to make the sweet 16. If you had a bye all you had to do was wn one game.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

Actually before 85 if you made the tournament it was easier to make the sweet 16. If you had a bye all you had to do was wn one game.

.

I think that's what I said. We might not have went to the S16 but under those rules many of TCs tourney appearances wouldn't have happened at all, that includes the 12 sweet 16 run

 

[ZildjianZLine]

By the way, how NCAA tournaments did Bob Knight go to at Army?

That question is beyond stupid. Just stop, son, stop.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

Try it now.

Im back! Now I need to figure out how to send the D-pics I've saved up today

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

OMG, you didn't even read the post. OMG!

Yeah, I did.

Tom Crean in NO WAY compares to Bob Knight. At all.

 

[ChampsAgain]

", 25+ win seasons, .

Those mean zero to me considering we always play the 230th ranked schedule in the country.

 

[IU Scott]

Yeah, I did.

Tom Crean in NO WAY compares to Bob Knight. At all.

Not very many coaches do

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Those mean zero to me considering we always play the 230th ranked schedule in the country.

But we won 25+ games !!!! <roll eyes>

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Not very many coaches do

Certainly not Tom Crean.

 

[IU Scott]

Certainly not Tom Crean.

I don't think when people compare RMK record the last 6 years to Creans they are saying that Crean is on par as a coach with RMK.

 

[IUT]

That question is beyond stupid. Just stop, son, stop.

You clearly didn't catch the context of the remark.

 

[IUT]

Yeah, I did.

Tom Crean in NO WAY compares to Bob Knight. At all.

Then you didn't understand it. My point was that some people are WAY to fast to jump on Crean after five years of coaching a normal program. Sorry but anyone calling for his head right now has the brains of an artichoke....IMO.