If only Putin had used the wrong pronouns . . .
- Thread starter CO. Hoosier
- Start date
Biden is extremely risk averse. He demonstrated this when he was V.P. and shows it in several ways as POTUS. This is particularly evident with his Ukrainian deeds and comments. Congress and Europe are in front of Biden on all of this. That’s kinda weird as Biden likes to see himself as the ultimate tough guy. He has been aggressive with sanctions but he can’t even get the messaging straight about that. In any event, the effect of sanctions is way too long.
Of course none of us know what is going on in secret. Given Biden’s tendency to shoot his mouth off about too much, I doubt we are involved in many clandestine activities. I would hope we have a hand in stirring up domestic turmoil in Russia, but I have my doubts.
Yes, there are other reasons why Putin chose to prepare for the invasion only after Biden’s inauguration, but I still believe the presence of Biden in the White House was a material factor.
Can’t ever know that. However, I think Biden increased the odds. Also increased the odds of war crimes without consequence.
It’s an interesting paradox. A more cerebral approach fosters European, NATO, and international cooperation but also gives Putin an oversized sense of superiority and self-confidence.
All we know is that Putin DID NOT invade while TRUMP was president and never made the first move to do it until after he was out.
No matter your (or anyone's) view on anything. Putin did not, while Trump was in. He DID for 100% sure do it when Biden was in. It's really not any harder than that, no matter how bad one person looks that is in the west wing nor how much people hate the last occupant. All the rest is noise, own it. BIDEN did not stop it nor give Putin reason NOT to do it.
General Petraeus answers a lot of the questions in this thread. Link
BERGEN: Should the US have begun arming Ukraine after Putin seized Crimea in 2014?
PETRAEUS: Congress authorized the transfer of Javelin weapons to the Ukrainians, and then it was delayed in the Obama administration. In the early period of the Trump administration, the Javelins were finally delivered, but then you had the whole issue with Ukraine subsequent to that when President Donald Trump reportedly withheld equipment for a period.
The effort by the Biden administration to arm the Ukrainians and the actions of our Western partners has been really quite dramatic, especially in the immediate run-up to the invasion and then following it. You see that Germany, which would only send helmets prior to the invasion, agreed to give lethal weapons. Even the EU agreed to send 500 million euros worth of military and other aid to Ukraine. So, there were revolutionary policy changes just days after the invasion began.
BERGEN: Are you surprised by that?
PETRAEUS: I think you must give credit to the US and to NATO and to the EU. I think that the Biden administration has performed impressively, and I say this as someone who publicly criticized the administration for the decision to withdraw from Afghanistan and the conduct of the withdrawal in August 2021.
BERGEN: Getting inside Putin's mind, of course, is not easy, but to what extent do you think that US withdrawal from Afghanistan may have figured in his calculations?
PETRAEUS: It is impossible to say, obviously, but what one can say with confidence is that some potential American adversaries seized on that withdrawal to say: "See? We told you the US is not a dependable partner and ally, and we told you that the US is a great power in decline."
Hearteningly, I think that US actions and those of our allies around the world on Ukraine have shown that the US is a dependable partner and is not a great power in decline. If anything, instead of Making Russia Great Again, what Putin has done is to Make NATO Great Again.
BERGEN: There have been warnings by the Biden White House about the possible use of chemical weapons by Putin. Is that plausible? Because it seems like kind of a Rubicon to cross.
PETRAEUS: It would be a Rubicon to cross, although the Russians have crossed that Rubicon before. They used the nerve agent Novichok against opponents of the regime such as Sergei Skripal and Alexei Navalny. They clearly have nerve agents. It's unknown whether they have them in large amounts and whether they're deliverable, but that clearly has to be a serious concern.
Certainly, the Biden administration has sought to dissuade Putin from using chemical weapons by exposing that possibility. In fact, another way in which this administration has been very impressive is taking what clearly are finished intelligence products and turning them into publicly releasable announcements without exposing sources and methods, which is really quite unique.
In fact, I think it has been quite effective because it has established the Biden administration's credibility on Ukraine. You can't dismiss what the administration is saying is possible, given that so much of what they said about Putin's plans for and goals in Ukraine, which was either initially dismissed or seen as unlikely, has now come to pass.
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I think there have been several boxing matches that the loser's supporters look back and say, "but he did some good thing", yet having his brains beaten out. There's nothing NOTHING to be proud of here. ... Well, we tried ends up with people dead.
I’ll take with General Petraeus thinks over what you think every second of eternity.
If Petreaus says "he's done SOME good things", I will take it as exactly what he says,
Hunker down and expect that the CIC has done just enough for us to still get our brains beat out.
When he says the CIC has done things perfectly, I'll feel safe having old people ice cream on the patio.
Yes, Russia’s mafioso dictator invading a western allied democracy all comes down to transgendered people in America. Cuckoo!!!!!
You’re willing to throw away everything our founders stood for because you are afraid a TG person will be in the same bathroom with you?
Got it!
You are not an American. You are disgusting. Please move your fat ass to Russia.
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anon_108jmb6yxelfn
Guest
That is one of the most ridiculous posts you’ve ever made.
Yeah, Putin was afraid of the guy who gave him a rusty trombone every time they were within 5 meters proximity of one another.
You know this.
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I would estimate the chances of anything you just typed being remotely true are about…hmmmm….1 in 500 million.
The good news is with everything that’s going on in Ukraine, you’ll have a decent chance of a finding a mail order bride. Keep in mind, once she has her visa (and sees you drive a wagon with an orange triangle on the back), you can wave goodbye. 😉
You’re disgusting.
This is generally nonsense. US policy has not changed in Eastern Europe 20+ years across administrations of both parties. (Bush/Obama/Trump/Biden)
You have a bizarro fascination with President's personalities when they are in one party..... and then a bizzaro obsession with saying they are completely irrelevant when they are of another party.
If anyone is to take you seriously, you should have even a modest attempt at consistency.
What policy actions would you like to see re: Ukraine?
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This is the world class idiot you voted for... glass houses and all.
"I'm surprised - I'm surprised. I thought he was negotiating when he sent his troops to the border. I thought he was negotiating," Trump told the outlet in a phone interview. "I thought it was a tough way to negotiate but a smart way to negotiate."
Putin sent more than 150,000 troops to the border of Ukraine before he began a war that has already cost thousands of lives in three weeks.
"I figured he was going to make a good deal like everybody else does with the United States and the other people they tend to deal with - you know, like every trade deal. We've never made a good trade deal until I came along," Trump said. "And then he went in - and I think he's changed. I think he's changed. It's a very sad thing for the world. He's very much changed."
Trump says he's 'surprised' Putin ordered Ukraine invasion
Former President Trump said he didn't think Russian President Vladimir Putin would go through with an invasion of Ukraine in
thehill.com
As long the NATO members paid up there fair share, Trump had their backs. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Why didn’t Petraeus mention Biden’s delay of arms in the months prior to his scripted zoom call with Putin? Petraes also doesn’t mention Biden’s coziness with Putin in the restart to the JCPOA. I have difficulty evaluating Petraeus without knowing his thoughts on those matters. It all goes together.
Huh? Most of the world, including our own commentariat and bureaucrats thought the troop buildup was a negotiation tactic. It may have been at that time. Many professionals keep saying the Russian invasion is poorly planned and poorly logistically supported. I’m old enough to remember when our own intelligence services reported Putin began to withdraw some troops. So who knows. Putin could have changed his mind seeing our piss-poor response.This is the world class idiot you voted for... glass houses and all.
"I'm surprised - I'm surprised. I thought he was negotiating when he sent his troops to the border. I thought he was negotiating," Trump told the outlet in a phone interview. "I thought it was a tough way to negotiate but a smart way to negotiate."
Putin sent more than 150,000 troops to the border of Ukraine before he began a war that has already cost thousands of lives in three weeks.
"I figured he was going to make a good deal like everybody else does with the United States and the other people they tend to deal with - you know, like every trade deal. We've never made a good trade deal until I came along," Trump said. "And then he went in - and I think he's changed. I think he's changed. It's a very sad thing for the world. He's very much changed."
Trump says he's 'surprised' Putin ordered Ukraine invasion
Former President Trump said he didn't think Russian President Vladimir Putin would go through with an invasion of Ukraine inthehill.com
In any event, it was during Putins troop buildup that we should have been much more aggressive. Instead the United States become more timid for fear of escalating the situation.
P.S. Trump isn’t the only one who says Putin has changed. Why do you hold that against him?
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All he says is that we are now releasing our intelligence to the public.
This isn't some bold step - it's part of a media campaign that shouldn't have been necessary in the first place.
I cannot give credit to an Administration that encouraged military adventurism by a country that the previous Administration he was a part of didn't even recognize Russia as a threat.
Bookmark this post so we can rub it in your face next November.
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anon_108jmb6yxelfn
Guest
Does your girlfriend still protect you and your expensive cars in Chicago? 😂
Sure. That's it. Putin amassed over 100,000 troops along the Ukrainian border, along with stockpiles of blood and medical supplies, as a negotiation tactic.
I don't know what "commentariat and bureaucrats" you listen(ed) to, but what I kept reading and hearing - - many days before the invasion actually commenced - - was that an invasion was imminent.
Putin has long called the collapse of the Soviet Union "the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th Century." It's no secret that he wants to rebuild the Russian empire. Ukraine is an early step.
Finally, Putin hasn't "changed." He's long been a ruthless killer and power-hungry tyrant.
It's unfortunate all of this is a surprise to you. You should read more.
Too bad you didn’t tell Biden Putin was a murdering ruthless power hungry tyrant hell bent on reestablishing the Soviet Union. Biden was still taking options off the table in early 2022 because he didn’t want to aggravate Putin.
Could it be Putin's invasion of Ukraine has nothing to do with NATO or who happens to be a United States president?
This article entitled Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Is Essentially Not About NATO contends Putin is more concerned about democracy taking hold in the countries of the old Soviet Union and the overthrow of autocrats like himself.
The article in part has this to say,
A longer look at Putin’s two decades in power shows that, above all, he fears political competition in the neighborhood.
So why was 2014 so concerning to Russia that it chose to invade [Crimea] ? Given Putin’s rhetoric about Euromaidan as a Western-backed plot, the most obvious conclusion is that he was afraid that regime change and democratization in Ukraine might reach – – or at least set an example for — Russian society and destabilize Putin’s increasingly consolidated authoritarianism. Research on the color revolutions and on the third wave of democratization in the region shows that this neighborhood effect was real. In other words, it’s not NATO at its doorsteps that’s so concerning to the Kremlin, but political competition, because it threatens authoritarian stability and introduces prospects of democratization.
This article entitled Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Is Essentially Not About NATO contends Putin is more concerned about democracy taking hold in the countries of the old Soviet Union and the overthrow of autocrats like himself.
The article in part has this to say,
A longer look at Putin’s two decades in power shows that, above all, he fears political competition in the neighborhood.
So why was 2014 so concerning to Russia that it chose to invade [Crimea] ? Given Putin’s rhetoric about Euromaidan as a Western-backed plot, the most obvious conclusion is that he was afraid that regime change and democratization in Ukraine might reach – – or at least set an example for — Russian society and destabilize Putin’s increasingly consolidated authoritarianism. Research on the color revolutions and on the third wave of democratization in the region shows that this neighborhood effect was real. In other words, it’s not NATO at its doorsteps that’s so concerning to the Kremlin, but political competition, because it threatens authoritarian stability and introduces prospects of democratization.
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Agree, hoot. Early in the war thread I posted about Putin being worried about democracy which was why I said I hope we are helping with the Russian civil unrest. His ruthless crackdown on free expression is not sustainable.
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Not trying to pick a fight, but how does that square with your observation (from a poll) that 70% of Russians back or believe Putin?
Probably afraid they might end up in a suitcase somewhere with a hole in the back of their head If they oppose.
"This is a historic moment," Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, said Wednesday. "I guess you could say Zelenskyy is Winston Churchill and Biden is FDR for historical analogy."
You’re in rare company, COH, rare company. You, Tucker Carlson, Ted Cruz, The Squad, marjorie Taylor green. Must make you feel really special.
Speaking of history, so much for that “so it wont happen again“ theory of learning and knowing history. Those who say that didn’t expect a senile easily frightened old man in charge.
Lol. Talking about rare company. Do you realize that you are the only person in the whole world who knows, or even cares, what a group consisting of your truly, Tucker Carlson, Ted Cruz, Marjorie Taylor Green and The Squad know or even think? Hell I don’t know that and I’m a member of your group.
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anon_mya1phvcpf5x4
Guest
As to... "Those who say that didn’t expect a senile easily frightened old man in charge".
Putin is showing signs of aging. Also ever since his days as a KBG agent, he has definitely been paranoid
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Agree hoot. But you need to be careful with posts like this. Trump also said Putin has changed and those who have agreed with Trump about anything are seen to have their nose up certain parts of Trump’s anatomy.As to... "Those who say that didn’t expect a senile easily frightened old man in charge".
Putin is showing signs of aging. Also ever since his days as a KBG agent, he has definitely been paranoid
This whole thing has me really confused. On the one hand, it seems the only rational thing to do is support Ukraine.
But I’ve always been wary of Eastern Europeans in general. They are usually dumb, they don’t dress well, they also speak too loudly. They seem quick to violence and to project masculintity (zero chill), however they prefer clear liquor to brown, very feminine. A paradox.
But I’ve always been wary of Eastern Europeans in general. They are usually dumb, they don’t dress well, they also speak too loudly. They seem quick to violence and to project masculintity (zero chill), however they prefer clear liquor to brown, very feminine. A paradox.
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