I really hate humanity sometimes.

[dr.jb]

My headline on this story would be.. Why I Hate the News.

Local and national news just naturally stress all the bad news of the day. The brighter side of everyday living is thankfully far and away the norm.

In contrast, the news upon which we focus are the rare events which aren't normal is in "man bites dog".

 

[mcmurtry66]

I used to go with my dad to his industrial league basketball and softball games. Sat in the stands and watched a bunch of Vietnam vets try to kill each other without getting thrown out of the game.

It'll be good for your little man to see pops in something competitive.

Definitely!!! He loves going to indoor. They have the claw machine and shit. Outdoor is awful tho. We’ve been relegated to fields unaffiliated with any of the clubs. So no concessions. Nothin. Just fields in the middle of nowhere. My daughter last season told me after a game that she no longer fears hell. She’s been there on Sunday mornings

 

[ulrey]

Prison is going to be really hard for her. For a really long time.

Good.

 

[Spartans9312]

don't think it is self-induced--I think every study that has come out over the last 5 years or so has warned about social media being a f*cking cancer to to youth. And it is. And to adults as well. It is very difficult to be a kid now. The pressures are extraordinary. Socially, athletically, academically and all magnified by social media which now lets EVERYONE see how bad a kid perceives him or herself as failing.

Kids don't want to be on medication. Kids don't want to be troublesome. Sometimes they simply cannot help themselves. But the medication helps until they can mature. The young mind is never meant to be so overloaded with stimuli such as social media, etc.

I generally side with the kids all day.

Social media and broken families….I see it every day.

I feel extremely sorry for the kids. The parents…In a lot of instances they need a beating. They start medicating these kids at the age of 6…cradle to grave drugs.

 

[Mark Milton]

I’ve spoken often with experienced people about the problems with mental health. Almost all of them claim we need more funding in the system. I think that is true. But funding for more providers and facilities really doesn’t solve the problems. It simply provides more hammers for the whack-a-mole approach. Many mental health disorders are a product of broken families, bad education, lack of parenting skills, and lack of interest in families and parenting. Strong nuclear families are the cornerstone for almost everything. Our public policy can’t, or more accurately won’t, accept that.

I had a cup of coffee a couple of months ago with a young lady, who was a stranger to me, whom I guessed to be in her late 20’s. I asked her occupation and she said she was a crisis counselor,. That occupation didn’t exist a generation or so ago. We need to ask ourselves why? My answer starts with dysfunctional families.

Job #1 in my opinion is to uplift and bring men back into the picture, especially in the lives of young people. Men are gone from education healthcare, and much of local government. Most importantly, men are gone from families and the lives of their kids.

Depression, ADHD, Bipolar, etc are very much tied to genetics. Somewhere between 55-60% of depression is genetically "gifted". The other half are sociolaogical causes, for example, a traumatic event, bullying, whatever.

In 1960 we didn't have a ton of pyschologists and psychiatrists running around. We do now. My wife is a psychologst that treats youth related depression, ADHD, etc (whole littany of stuff). The broken home/non strong nuclear family thing simply isn't true. Adding more men to the mix ain't the issue. First, huge misunderstanding about mental illness. It likely plagued people back then as it did today. It just wasn't discussed and the person never got treatment. That means the report now will much higher and appear to show greater numbers of people afflicted with an unfortunate malady. In reality, that is not the case. The rise in depression/suicide rates, etc in youth is by and large a sociological issue. Could it be because your dad beat the crap out of you? Of course. Could it be because your parents sucked ass? Absolutely, but by and large there is a direct relationship between the triggering of an illness or the exacerbation of the illness with screen time--largely social media. During Covid that level skyrocketed and unfortunately for children, they may not recover. For example, my wife asks each kid and parent to show them their phones with the the most recent info on it for screen time a week. Pretty staggering.

While positive influence can help assuage some levels of angst in a child or teen, genetics says you need medicinal help. It is not an either or deal either. Combination of therapy and medicine has been proven to be the best hope

 

[BradStevens]

don't think it is self-induced--I think every study that has come out over the last 5 years or so has warned about social media being a f*cking cancer to to youth. And it is. And to adults as well. It is very difficult to be a kid now. The pressures are extraordinary. Socially, athletically, academically and all magnified by social media which now lets EVERYONE see how bad a kid perceives him or herself as failing.

Kids don't want to be on medication. Kids don't want to be troublesome. Sometimes they simply cannot help themselves. But the medication helps until they can mature. The young mind is never meant to be so overloaded with stimuli such as social media, etc.

I generally side with the kids all day.

Jonathan Haidt has a new book on it— smart phones + social media has caused a youth mental health crisis.

 

[Mark Milton]

Social media and broken families….I see it every day.

I feel extremely sorry for the kids. The parents…In a lot of instances they need a beating. They start medicating these kids at the age of 6…cradle to grave drugs.

Let me ask you this: if a 6 year old child is repeatedly smashing their skull into a refrigerator or otherwise engaging in psychotic type behavior, do you not think that child needs medical help by way of a medicine that can readjust what is misfiring? I think I understand what you are saying--I would compare to non diabetics using ozempic or whatever. You don't need it 90% of the time.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Depression, ADHD, Bipolar, etc are very much tied to genetics. Somewhere between 55-60% of depression is genetically "gifted". The other half are sociolaogical causes, for example, a traumatic event, bullying, whatever.

In 1960 we didn't have a ton of pyschologists and psychiatrists running around. We do now. My wife is a psychologst that treats youth related depression, ADHD, etc (whole littany of stuff). The broken home/non strong nuclear family thing simply isn't true. Adding more men to the mix ain't the issue. First, huge misunderstanding about mental illness. It likely plagued people back then as it did today. It just wasn't discussed and the person never got treatment. That means the report now will much higher and appear to show greater numbers of people afflicted with an unfortunate malady. In reality, that is not the case. The rise in depression/suicide rates, etc in youth is by and large a sociological issue. Could it be because your dad beat the crap out of you? Of course. Could it be because your parents sucked ass? Absolutely, but by and large there is a direct relationship between the triggering of an illness or the exacerbation of the illness with screen time--largely social media. During Covid that level skyrocketed and unfortunately for children, they may not recover. For example, my wife asks each kid and parent to show them their phones with the the most recent info on it for screen time a week. Pretty staggering.

While positive influence can help assuage some levels of angst in a child or teen, genetics says you need medicinal help. It is not an either or deal either. Combination of therapy and medicine has been proven to be the best hope

One positive is the availability of medically assisted treatment online. Get counseling from your couch (reduce stigma) and meds in your mailbox. Sliding scale if broke no insurance

 

[Mark Milton]

Jonathan Haidt has a new book on it— smart phones + social media has caused a youth mental health crisis.

My wife had an advance copy of it. She liked it quite a bit. She asked me if I wanted to read it, and I said "nope, there's enough depressing shit to read". I think it comes out this month right?

 

[hookyIU1990]

Social media and broken families….I see it every day.

I feel extremely sorry for the kids. The parents…In a lot of instances they need a beating. They start medicating these kids at the age of 6…cradle to grave drugs.

Parenting, like any other worthwhile and rewarding activity, is challenging. More and more people don't want challenging. They want the easy button.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Parenting, like any other worthwhile and rewarding activity, is challenging. More and more people don't want challenging. They want the easy button.

And nothing is easier than letting them rot on their phone

 

[mcmurtry66]

Parenting, like any other worthwhile and rewarding activity, is challenging. More and more people don't want challenging. They want the easy button.

I will add that the tech shit is ubiquitous and normalized. My daughter sees a specialist for stomach shit. Last time we there the nurse wanted to know if my little guy (almost 3) wanted a tablet. Wtf. No. He needs to learn to sit without incessant screens/entertainment. But they were passing out tablets like pez

 

[DANC]

Social media is a problem for adults too. I’ve posted eleventy hundred times here about ignore buttons and claims of trolling. As far as I am concerned any poster who complains about trolling or uses an ignore button has a social media problem.

Using the ignore button means you have a social media problem?

I don't see that. I use it for trolls because I'm tired of seeing their shit and don't want to wade through what I know will be nonsense.

If that means I have a 'social media problem', then I'm not sure what you mean by it. Social media is the least of my worries.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Depression, ADHD, Bipolar, etc are very much tied to genetics. Somewhere between 55-60% of depression is genetically "gifted". The other half are sociolaogical causes, for example, a traumatic event, bullying, whatever.

In 1960 we didn't have a ton of pyschologists and psychiatrists running around. We do now. My wife is a psychologst that treats youth related depression, ADHD, etc (whole littany of stuff). The broken home/non strong nuclear family thing simply isn't true. Adding more men to the mix ain't the issue. First, huge misunderstanding about mental illness. It likely plagued people back then as it did today. It just wasn't discussed and the person never got treatment. That means the report now will much higher and appear to show greater numbers of people afflicted with an unfortunate malady. In reality, that is not the case. The rise in depression/suicide rates, etc in youth is by and large a sociological issue. Could it be because your dad beat the crap out of you? Of course. Could it be because your parents sucked ass? Absolutely, but by and large there is a direct relationship between the triggering of an illness or the exacerbation of the illness with screen time--largely social media. During Covid that level skyrocketed and unfortunately for children, they may not recover. For example, my wife asks each kid and parent to show them their phones with the the most recent info on it for screen time a week. Pretty staggering.

While positive influence can help assuage some levels of angst in a child or teen, genetics says you need medicinal help. It is not an either or deal either. Combination of therapy and medicine has been proven to be the best hope

I agree with a lot of this. But I also think “medicinal help” as you describe it is over done and could even be counterproductive. I also think you underplay the role of upbringing in good adolescent mental health. A contagion is not just genetic, it’s social as well.

 

[BradStevens]

My wife had an advance copy of it. She liked it quite a bit. She asked me if I wanted to read it, and I said "nope, there's enough depressing shit to read". I think it comes out this month right?

Think so. He was on Rogans show talking about it.

 

[DANC]

Depression, ADHD, Bipolar, etc are very much tied to genetics. Somewhere between 55-60% of depression is genetically "gifted". The other half are sociolaogical causes, for example, a traumatic event, bullying, whatever.

In 1960 we didn't have a ton of pyschologists and psychiatrists running around. We do now. My wife is a psychologst that treats youth related depression, ADHD, etc (whole littany of stuff). The broken home/non strong nuclear family thing simply isn't true. Adding more men to the mix ain't the issue. First, huge misunderstanding about mental illness. It likely plagued people back then as it did today. It just wasn't discussed and the person never got treatment. That means the report now will much higher and appear to show greater numbers of people afflicted with an unfortunate malady. In reality, that is not the case. The rise in depression/suicide rates, etc in youth is by and large a sociological issue. Could it be because your dad beat the crap out of you? Of course. Could it be because your parents sucked ass? Absolutely, but by and large there is a direct relationship between the triggering of an illness or the exacerbation of the illness with screen time--largely social media. During Covid that level skyrocketed and unfortunately for children, they may not recover. For example, my wife asks each kid and parent to show them their phones with the the most recent info on it for screen time a week. Pretty staggering.

While positive influence can help assuage some levels of angst in a child or teen, genetics says you need medicinal help. It is not an either or deal either. Combination of therapy and medicine has been proven to be the best hope

I agree much of it is genetic - I see it in generations of my own family.

Combine that with societal issues, and it just exacerbates the condition.

 

[Spartans9312]

Let me ask you this: if a 6 year old child is repeatedly smashing their skull into a refrigerator or otherwise engaging in psychotic type behavior, do you not think that child needs medical help by way of a medicine that can readjust what is misfiring? I think I understand what you are saying--I would compare to non diabetics using ozempic or whatever. You don't need it 90% of the time.

You’ve chosen an extreme outlier as your example.

A more pertinent example is little Johnny won’t sit in his chair at school. There was a time when the teacher would have forced little Johnny to sit in his chair. Now, little Johnny gets put on adderall, Ritalin, Focalin, Vyvanse…pick your stimulant. Then little Johnny is having problems sleeping….so we give little Johnny some clonidine. Eventually, little Johnny ends up on a SSRI by the time he’s 12. Then by the time Johnny is 19 he is put on a benzodiazepine. That’s if little Johnny is lucky and he’s not put on Abilify…at which point he ends up with extrapyramidal side effects.

Nobody is saying not to treat true psychotic symptoms Schizophrenia and the like.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Using the ignore button means you have a social media problem?

I don't see that. I use it for trolls because I'm tired of seeing their shit and don't want to wade through what I know will be nonsense.

If that means I have a 'social media problem', then I'm not sure what you mean by it. Social media is the least of my worries.

“Seeing their shit” is a problem that happens between your ears. If your reaction to that is negative, that is where you look to fix it.

A social media problem is many things. But one of the more important ones is being led to anger, dispair, or other negative feelings by what is on your screen. It encompasses the whole idea of trigger warnings, safe spaces etc. All of that signals a weakness that is internal, not a problem that is external.

 

[DANC]

“Seeing their shit” is a problem that happens between your ears. If your reaction to that is negative, that is where you look to fix it.

A social media problem is many things. But one of the more important ones is being led to anger, dispair, or other negative feelings by what is on your screen. It encompasses the whole idea of trigger warnings, safe spaces etc. All of that signals a weakness that is internal, not a problem that is external.

You don't have a negative reaction when you see nonsense on your screen?

Seems pretty robotic, if that's the case.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Parenting, like any other worthwhile and rewarding activity, is challenging. More and more people don't want challenging. They want the easy button.

Last thing hooky. It is harder now to parent. So many couples both work. I remember being a kid. All the moms were home. Planning shit. Now mom swings by daycare at five. Has to figure out dinner, baths, dry cleaners etc. The cost of life and chasing the jones’ (for @UncleMark) has contributed to the reliance, for lack of a better word, on phones and tablets as proxy babysitters/entertainers

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You don't have a negative reaction when you see nonsense on your screen?

Sometimes.

I also believe exposures to different adverse influences strengthens immune systems. Just as exposure to some things helps the physical immune system, exposure to bullshit strengthens my mental immune system. If I continually avoid it, my coping skills get flushed.

 

[Mark Milton]

You’ve chosen an extreme outlier as your example.

A more pertinent example is little Johnny won’t sit in his chair at school. There was a time when the teacher would have forced little Johnny to sit in his chair. Now, little Johnny gets put on adderall, Ritalin, Focalin, Vyvanse…pick your stimulant. Then little Johnny is having problems sleeping….so we give little Johnny some clonidine. Eventually, little Johnny ends up on a SSRI by the time he’s 12. Then by the time Johnny is 19 he is put on a benzodiazepine. That’s if little Johnny is lucky and he’s not put on Abilify…at which point he ends up with extrapyramidal side effects.

Nobody is saying not to treat true psychotic symptoms Schizophrenia and the like.

but isn't the little Johnny who can't be in chair an extreme version also?

how about where Little susie can't concentrate at school and struggles with executive functions but improves with adderall or Ritalin?

 

[UncleMark]

Let me ask you this: if a 6 year old child is repeatedly smashing their skull into a refrigerator or otherwise engaging in psychotic type behavior, do you not think that child needs medical help by way of a medicine that can readjust what is misfiring? I think I understand what you are saying--I would compare to non diabetics using ozempic or whatever. You don't need it 90% of the time.

I would only add that we seem to have fallen victim to "awfulizing" stuff that is part of normal life. Getting your feelings hurt is "assault". Rowdy kids (boys) have "behavioral issues" that must be medicated. A financial setback is "trauma". Recovering from a medical condition makes you a "survivor". And on and on and on.

I'm well aware there are legitimate mental health concerns that people must deal with, but too often we see people simply not being able to deal with life on life's terms. I don't know the answer, but in many (most?) cases I don't think it's medication and/or long term psychotherapy. It sounds heartless and ignorant to think that someone should just suck it up or rub a little dirt on it, but I think that actually might be what is needed in a lot of cases.

 

[BradStevens]

“Seeing their shit” is a problem that happens between your ears. If your reaction to that is negative, that is where you look to fix it.

A social media problem is many things. But one of the more important ones is being led to anger, dispair, or other negative feelings by what is on your screen. It encompasses the whole idea of trigger warnings, safe spaces etc. All of that signals a weakness that is internal, not a problem that is external.

I find people who can’t admit to their vulnerabilities—and go further and claim that those that recognize theirs are weak—are typically the weak ones, so scared someone might see a weakness in them, they have to project a tough guy image and bad mouth others.

 

[hookyIU1990]

“Seeing their shit” is a problem that happens between your ears. If your reaction to that is negative, that is where you look to fix it.

A social media problem is many things. But one of the more important ones is being led to anger, dispair, or other negative feelings by what is on your screen. It encompasses the whole idea of trigger warnings, safe spaces etc. All of that signals a weakness that is internal, not a problem that is external.

No offense, but choosing not to witness a stranger's shit show isn't a sign of weakness.

Before social media, you just walked away from them and eventually ignored their circus to focus on your own monkeys.

 

[Spartans9312]

Last thing hooky. It is harder now to parent. So many couples both work. I remember being a kid. All the moms were home. Planning shit. Now mom swings by daycare at five. Has to figure out dinner, baths, dry cleaners etc. The cost of life and chasing the jones’ (for @UncleMark) has contributed to the reliance, for lack of a better word, on phones and tablets as proxy babysitters/entertainers

I think you are mostly correct….chasing the Jones’ is a choice. I don’t think it’s harder to parent now. I think society has created that illusion.

I will say…the artificial increase in the price of a house and a vehicle has really hurt. But I’m not so sure that hasn’t been self-induced going all the way back to my parents generation (they are early 70s)

 

[DANC]

Last thing hooky. It is harder now to parent. So many couples both work. I remember being a kid. All the moms were home. Planning shit. Now mom swings by daycare at five. Has to figure out dinner, baths, dry cleaners etc. The cost of life and chasing the jones’ (for @UncleMark) has contributed to the reliance, for lack of a better word, on phones and tablets as proxy babysitters/entertainers

That's called the rat race. Working couples have been a thing for a long time now and I wouldn't say parenting is much harder than it was 30 years ago, when Hooky was just a toddler

My mom taught school, when she wasn't having kids (4), so she would work a couple years, then lay off for a year. It was very hard on her, because she couldn't really develop her teaching career and spend the time she wanted to, raising the kids. Instead of phones and computers (which we couldn't afford even if they were available), she just sent us outside. We were only expected to be back by supper. I realize you can't do that now.

Without Hispanic women doing house cleaning and being nannies, I'm not sure how my daughter and son-in-law would do it.

 

[Mark Milton]

I would only add that we seem to have fallen victim to "awfulizing" stuff that is part of normal life. Getting your feelings hurt is "assault". Rowdy kids (boys) have "behavioral issues" that must be medicated. A financial setback is "trauma". Recovering from a medical condition makes you a "survivor". And on and on and on.

I'm well aware there are legitimate mental health concerns that people must deal with, but too often we see people simply not being able to deal with life on life's terms. I don't know the answer, but in many (most?) cases I don't think it's medication and/or long term psychotherapy. It sounds heartless and ignorant to think that someone should just suck it up or rub a little dirt on it, but I think that actually might be what is needed in a lot of cases.

if only my wife would get a screen name here and post. I'm just parroting what she is literally saying to me over my shoulder. Her response to this: "there isn't one person I have seen in 28 years that came to me because they lost a game, didn't get what they wanted or felt mom and dad were too strict"....

 

[DANC]

Sometimes.

I also believe exposures to different adverse influences strengthens immune systems. Just as exposure to some things helps the physical immune system, exposure to bullshit strengthens my mental immune system. If I continually avoid it, my coping skills get flushed.

I agree, but I don't see it as a problem. C'est la vie.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Last thing hooky. It is harder now to parent. So many couples both work. I remember being a kid. All the moms were home. Planning shit. Now mom swings by daycare at five. Has to figure out dinner, baths, dry cleaners etc. The cost of life and chasing the jones’ (for @UncleMark) has contributed to the reliance, for lack of a better word, on phones and tablets as proxy babysitters/entertainers

True dat. But instead of this being inevitable, I think a significant part is parental choice. For too many, being a parent is secondary to being with friends, developing a career, etc.

 

[DANC]

I think you are mostly correct….chasing the Jones’ is a choice. I don’t think it’s harder to parent now. I think society has created that illusion.

I will say…the artificial increase in the price of a house and a vehicle has really hurt. But I’m not so sure that hasn’t been self-induced going all the way back to my parents generation (they are early 70s)

Early 70s...... sonofabitch..... (he said as he realizes he's right there....)

 

[Spartans9312]

but isn't the little Johnny who can't be in chair an extreme version also?

how about where Little susie can't concentrate at school and struggles with executive functions but improves with adderall or Ritalin?

Maybe little Susie learns to cope and becomes better with executive functions with repetition.

Whenever I entered this profession, I kept in stock one bottle of Ritalin and 1 bottle of Dexedrine Spansules. Now, I have a whole safe full of them.

 

[UncleMark]

if only my wife would get a screen name here and post. I'm just parroting what she is literally saying to me over my shoulder. Her response to this: "there isn't one person I have seen in 28 years that came to me because they lost a game, didn't get what they wanted or felt mom and dad were too strict"....

Understood, and good on her for not taking on clients looking for easy fixes or "validation" of their disappointments. Would she at least acknowledge there are clinicians that do?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

No offense, but choosing not to witness a stranger's shit show isn't a sign of weakness.

You’ve already decided to not walk away when you opened the link to this forum. Having done so, being able to cope with the shit from many posters is a positive. Even more important it often tells me I’m over the target. Hickory ‘s laughing emoji is a perfect example.

 

[UncleMark]

No offense, but choosing not to witness a stranger's shit show isn't a sign of weakness.

Before social media, you just walked away from them and eventually ignored their circus to focus on your own monkeys.

Back in the Good Ol' Days of Usenet newsgroups (the original social media) we used killfiles. That would probably be considered violent language today.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Last thing hooky. It is harder now to parent. So many couples both work. I remember being a kid. All the moms were home. Planning shit. Now mom swings by daycare at five. Has to figure out dinner, baths, dry cleaners etc. The cost of life and chasing the jones’ (for @UncleMark) has contributed to the reliance, for lack of a better word, on phones and tablets as proxy babysitters/entertainers

I don't buy that. Dad worked full time as did Mom, plus he farmed. Spring and fall, he'd get 3-4 hours of sleep for weeks at a time. All 4 of us are successful by most standards. The difference is family. We had grandparents, aunts, and uncles who would **** us up in an instant if we were out of line and our parents weren't around.

We've lost the extended family. We weren't allowed to plop down in front of the TV or play Atari all day. We had to go do stuff and we were held responsible for our behavior.

It doesn't take a village. It takes a family.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Understood, and good on her for not taking on clients looking for easy fixes or "validation" of their disappointments. Would she at least acknowledge there are clinicians that do?

Like these cocksucker dentists!!! Do we have any on this board??!! Let’s get him!!!! Fillings on baby teeth!!!!! Do they EVER say a kid doesn’t need braces?!!!!! Growing up I didn’t have one friend with braces. Hell my one buddy had a corn tooth!! Right in front!!! Didn’t even get it fixed til he made partner at Bryan cave!

 

[hookyIU1990]

You’ve already decided to not walk away when you opened the link to this forum. Having done so, being able to cope with the shit from many posters is a positive. Even more important it often tells me I’m over the target. Hickory ‘s laughing emoji is a perfect example.

Are we talking about social media or this place?

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think you are mostly correct….chasing the Jones’ is a choice. I don’t think it’s harder to parent now. I think society has created that illusion.

I will say…the artificial increase in the price of a house and a vehicle has really hurt. But I’m not so sure that hasn’t been self-induced going all the way back to my parents generation (they are early 70s)

@Marvin the Martian speaking of the jones’. We won’t be keeping up. We’ll be leaving them in the dust son!! Stopped at the gas station on the way home from my game and picked up a Powerball. 1.1 billion. I feel GREAT about it. Up to you but you may want to give your boss notice for fall football

 

[hookyIU1990]

@Marvin the Martian speaking of the jones’. We won’t be keeping up. We’ll be leaving them in the dust son!! Stopped at the gas station on the way home from my game and picked up a Powerball. 1.1 billion. I feel GREAT about it. Up to you but you may want to give your boss notice for fall football

Marv needs to focus his efforts on men's basketball and baseball, in that order.