ADVERTISEMENT

How do you deal with Islam?

JDB, unfortunately you are correct about the Western Jew approach not working for them against anti Semitism even in the West, much less in the Middle East.

Is it because they are naive or because they are misunderstood? Or is it the nationalism, religion, and all the other factors mentioned by you in your post about Amin Maalouf These factors seem to be the prevailing forces motivating how we conduct ourselves.

It's a good question hoot and one that I don't really have a good answer for. One thought is that part of it stems from the idea that they have been generally in decent socioeconomic positions and have more to lose than others in recent centuries (see Germany 1930s). Another could be the longevity of the religion and its historical struggles with so many ethnic and religious groups (e.g., Babylonians, Greeks/Macedonians, Romans, Christians, Muslims, Ottomans, etc.) has made Jews less interested in war and physical conflict.

Either way, the lack of standing up for themselves when things turn violent or go beyond verbal means, is troubling.
 
It's a good question hoot and one that I don't really have a good answer for. One thought is that part of it stems from the idea that they have been generally in decent socioeconomic positions and have more to lose than others in recent centuries (see Germany 1930s). Another could be the longevity of the religion and its historical struggles with so many ethnic and religious groups (e.g., Babylonians, Greeks/Macedonians, Romans, Christians, Muslims, Ottomans, etc.) has made Jews less interested in war and physical conflict.

Either way, the lack of standing up for themselves when things turn violent or go beyond verbal means, is troubling.

JDB, cannot help but think the Jews who are a majority in Israel today look back at the Holocaust and say never again.

The never again thinking being that the Jews under Hitler were way too passive.

I for one can't blame them while at the same time wishing Jews and Muslims could somehow build Israel into a single state.

The two state solution never made sense to me. My Hebrew friends in this country are proud of their heritage which includes being acceptive to those with other faiths.

They also forgive those who may be anti-Semitic if a business deal can be made.. The best deal to be made in Israel for both the Muslims and Jews is a single state solution.
 
It's a good question hoot and one that I don't really have a good answer for. One thought is that part of it stems from the idea that they have been generally in decent socioeconomic positions and have more to lose than others in recent centuries (see Germany 1930s). Another could be the longevity of the religion and its historical struggles with so many ethnic and religious groups (e.g., Babylonians, Greeks/Macedonians, Romans, Christians, Muslims, Ottomans, etc.) has made Jews less interested in war and physical conflict.

Either way, the lack of standing up for themselves when things turn violent or go beyond verbal means, is troubling.
Check this out, JDB:

 
The two state solution never made sense to me. My Hebrew friends in this country are proud of their heritage which includes being acceptive to those with other faiths.

Sorry hoot, missed this reply to you. While I agree with the last sentence, the two state solution is the only plausible option given the violence and extremism of Muslims in general, but even more specifically, Palestinians. How does one agree to a single state option if there is a constant threat of violence? And, in fairness, I'm sure there are some right wing Jews that would be aggressive towards Muslims as well.

In other words, while it makes logical sense without context, once you consider the long-time conflict and attitudes, it doesn't seem feasible.
 
Canada should bomb the f*ck out of Iran. That would be hilarious.

With what, paper and maple syrup?

giphy.gif
 
Very typical.
The crazy thing is, this shift in Iranian posture, if it holds (and it would be consistent with their latest election), would be a good development. But the Trump cultists can't even talk about it seriously, because all they can do is see the ridiculous tweets that turn this into some kind of Trump victory lap. That's all they care about. The results don't matter. Only the W and their lame attempt to pwn the libs.
 
The crazy thing is, this shift in Iranian posture, if it holds (and it would be consistent with their latest election), would be a good development. But the Trump cultists can't even talk about it seriously, because all they can do is see the ridiculous tweets that turn this into some kind of Trump victory lap. That's all they care about. The results don't matter. Only the W and their lame attempt to pwn the libs.
lmao You like the outcome, but can't stand the fact Trump gets credit for it.

Par for the course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1
It's pretty shocking to me that we haven't figured out a way to screen these people better.
I can't remember where I saw it, as it's been a while, but the upshot was that screening people for extremism is effectively impossible. There exists no set of data points that would allow us to determine which potential entrants are Islamist terrorists and which ones simply happen to be Muslim. I don't think this is unique to Islam, BTW. You imagine a Muslim country trying to keep out Hindu terrorists, and they'd have the same problem. A model Western secular society trying to avoid Christian terrorists, and they'd have the same problem. Or forget religion. A capitalist society trying to keep out eco-terrorists. Whatever your particular fear, there appears to be no reliable way to distinguish between the people who believe A and the people who are willing to commit violence for A.

I wish I could remember where I read this, because it was laid out much more intelligently than I did just there. But long story short, if you want to ban Muslim terrorists, the only way is to simply ban Muslims. If you want to ban eco-terrorists, the only way is to ban environmentalists. And so forth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BradStevens
I can't remember where I saw it, as it's been a while, but the upshot was that screening people for extremism is effectively impossible. There exists no set of data points that would allow us to determine which potential entrants are Islamist terrorists and which ones simply happen to be Muslim. I don't think this is unique to Islam, BTW. You imagine a Muslim country trying to keep out Hindu terrorists, and they'd have the same problem. A model Western secular society trying to avoid Christian terrorists, and they'd have the same problem. Or forget religion. A capitalist society trying to keep out eco-terrorists. Whatever your particular fear, there appears to be no reliable way to distinguish between the people who believe A and the people who are willing to commit violence for A.

I wish I could remember where I read this, because it was laid out much more intelligently than I did just there. But long story short, if you want to ban Muslim terrorists, the only way is to simply ban Muslims. If you want to ban eco-terrorists, the only way is to ban environmentalists. And so forth.
Were we to try to profile, I’m sure we could add in age, sex, marital status, too. It wouldn’t be perfect, of course, but it’s a starting point for where more investigation could be carried out.

Of course here it looks like two women were involved.
 
Were we to try to profile, I’m sure we could add in age, sex, marital status, too. It wouldn’t be perfect, of course, but it’s a starting point for where more investigation could be carried out.

Of course here it looks like two women were involved.
I believe it had to do with the fact that the number of terrorists is so small, no matter how detailed your profile, you'd still get mostly false positives.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT