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How do you deal with Islam?

JamieDimonsBalls said:
Why don't Egypt, Jordan, Syria, etc. accept them? Shit, send them to Yemen. Seems like they are supportive.

What is the global 2 state solution that Israel constantly rejects? The one recommended by the UN in 1947 literally started the conflict because the Arabs rejected it and attacked? After getting their asses kicked and Israeli counteroffensives, now the Palestinians want to go back to the 1947 plan? LOL, talk about irrational and unserious.
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eh -- not a very compelling argument. under any circumstances, what country ever wants to accept a whole nation into its borders? never happens

of course they want to go back to something like the 1947 plan. they've lost ground militarily, politically, geographically since then. it's like Tibet wanting to go back to the 1949 plan with China because what they have now is worse.
 
manichi said:
you are right. amazingly, 80 years on, your questions/ comments are still at the core of the issue imo.

in the context of post-colonial thinking, Israel would not have a state. there are many nations right now that deserve a state but won't get one because that time has passed. the Kurds come to mind.

in the context of geopolitics 1948, Israel absolutely did the right thing in forming. in the context of 1980s even, Israel's current disposition makes total sense. there was still no room for error then; Israel could win 99/100 wars with it's neighbors but would still cease to exist if it lost just one. so the math was easy, punch back harder and faster. Eff the downstream consequences.

but now Israel in 2023 is like a junior Western power, and major power in its region, nuclear armed, huge economy, expertise in various military and civilian industries, part of stable global and regional partnerships. once you are that, you can't go back. no one is confusing Israel's need to settle land they don't own with apartment complexes and strip malls as the reasonable reaction of a young, isolated country trying to push out against its much stronger enemies just to survive. the US puts up with it, barely, because the partnership means that much to us. same reason we put up with the Saudis and their even crazier shit. will be curious to see if US administrations don't push harder against West Bank expansion once the dust settles.
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West bank settlements are a bit of a red herring. Far from the chief obstacle to peace. And it's not as if the Palestinians own that land either.

Your last paragraph sounds an awful lot like the "proportionality" and "power imbalance" malarkey we've heard in recent weeks, which I'm sure you don't agree with.
 
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IUCrazy2 said:
Palestine was never a nation.
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it is a nation

A nation is a community of people formed on the basis of a common language, territory, ethnicity etc. A country may be an independent sovereign state or part of a larger state, a physical territory with a government, or a geographic region associated with sets of previously independent or differently associated people.
 
manichi said:
eh -- not a very compelling argument. under any circumstances, what country ever wants to accept a whole nation into its borders? never happens

of course they want to go back to something like the 1947 plan. they've lost ground militarily, politically, geographically since then. it's like Tibet wanting to go back to the 1949 plan with China because what they have now is worse.
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What was the Trumper's response to Hispanic immigrants at the sourthern border? Build a wall, something to that extent? Hasn't immigration been an enormous US political topic? People are seriously asking why other countries don't want to accept a large number of immigrants? Look in the mirror.
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
What was the Trumper's response to Hispanic immigrants at the sourthern border? Build a wall, something to that extent? Hasn't immigration been an enormous US political topic? People are seriously asking why other countries don't want to accept a large number of immigrants? Look in the mirror.
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I already slapped down this BS line from you. Don't recycle it please.
 
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GigGoo said:
West bank settlements are a bit of a red herring. Far from the chief obstacle to peace. And it's not as if the Palestinians own that land either.

Your last paragraph sounds an awful lot like the "proportionality" and "power imbalance" malarkey we've heard in recent weeks, which I'm sure you don't agree with.
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it's at the heart of the issue. again, you guys are doubting the passion that forms when a people has to leave land they've considered theirs for generations. I get it, Americans don't have to think like that but most places in the world do. Ukraine comes to mind.

western powers expect each other to act a certain way. Israel will feel those rails.
 
manichi said:
it's at the heart of the issue. again, you guys are doubting the passion that forms when a people has to leave land they've considered theirs for generations. I get it, Americans don't have to think like that but most places in the world do. Ukraine comes to mind.

western powers expect each other to act a certain way. Israel will feel those rails.
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Could you imagine some of the people on here if Muslims removed them from their home at gunpoint, herded them into a ghetto, took over the US, made the US a Muslim state, and the Muslims were the majority ethnic/religious group? I would pay to see that. Jamie would be blowing himself up on a bus.
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
Could you imagine some of the people on here if Muslims removed them from their home at gunpoint, herded them into a ghetto, took over the US, made the US a Muslim state, and the Muslims were the majority ethnic/religious group? I would pay to see that. Jamie would be blowing himself up on a bus.
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Arabs who stayed in Israel in 1948 were made citizens.

What are you babbling about?
 
HoosierJimbo89 said:
Why didn't the US accept Jews during WW2?
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Anti-semitism? U.S. stance against immigration resulting from the Great Depression was primarily economic-related (jobs, etc.) and FDR's Administration was quite anti-immigration. It certainly wasn't because of Jewish threat of terrorism and criminality.

HoosierJimbo89 said:
Why is it ok for Israel to cleanse the area of Palestinians?
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What does that mean? Are you suggesting Israel is ethnically cleasing Palestinians?

HoosierJimbo89 said:
srael keeps settling in the West Bank in prohibited areas, and they reject almost every effort for a Palestinian to build a house there.
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That is a policy stance I, along with many Israelis even, dislike. I've already stated that I don't support this. How many of the people slaughtered at the music festival did? Certainly far fewer than Netanyahu's supporters.
 
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manichi said:
it's at the heart of the issue. again, you guys are doubting the passion that forms when a people has to leave land they've considered theirs for generations. I get it, Americans don't have to think like that but most places in the world do. Ukraine comes to mind.

western powers expect each other to act a certain way. Israel will feel those rails.
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You mean like the arrests, executions and explusion of Jews from Arab countries like Iran, Yemen, etc.?
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
Could you imagine some of the people on here if Muslims removed them from their home at gunpoint, herded them into a ghetto, took over the US, made the US a Muslim state, and the Muslims were the majority ethnic/religious group? I would pay to see that. Jamie would be blowing himself up on a bus.
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If we were launching rockets and suicide attacks at Muslims, you'd expect that to be the response.
 
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JamieDimonsBalls said:
If we were launching rockets and suicide attacks at Muslims, you'd expect that to be the response.
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So you would hand the Israelis the keys to your house, slap them on the back, and enjoy being a second class citizen with no rights in the ghetto? If you accidentally enter the wrong house in America, you can be shot.
 
BradStevens said:
I don’t think you two are going to accomplish persuading each other.

Might be time to cut bait.
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People who view changing their beliefs in light of new facts as something to be ashamed of are not persuadable. Jimbo is not persuadable.
 
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BradStevens said:
I don’t think you two are going to accomplish persuading each other.

Might be time to cut bait.
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I just want to see what would happen if a Muslim came to Jamie's house, forced him out at gunpoint, and sent him to live in a ghetto in Saudi Arabia as a minority. Is that so wrong?
 
Christianity in a nutshell: the invisible man sent his son to be tortured and crucified on a cross to death as a sacrifice for humankind. This is after the invisible man destroyed the world in a flood. If you don't believe in the invisible man's son, you burn forever in the eternal hellfires. Christians engage in an act of eating Christ's flesh and drinking his blood.

And, the invisible man and his son love you.
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
Christianity in a nutshell: the invisible man sent his son to be tortured and crucified on a cross to death as a sacrifice for humankind. This is after the invisible man destroyed the world in a flood. If you don't believe in the invisible man's son, you burn forever in the eternal hellfires. Christians engage in an act of eating Christ's flesh and drinking his blood.

And, the invisible man and his son love you.
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Got it. You’re very much anti-Christian to the point of hatred. The Hamas terrorists worship the same “invisible man” and murder, rape, kidnap and torture, in his name, but they’re only driven to that by the Jews of Israel that worship the same “invisible man.” How do you keep this all sorted in your head?
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
Got it. You’re very much anti-Christian to the point of hatred. The Hamas terrorists worship the same “invisible man” and murder, rape, kidnap and torture, in his name, but they’re only driven to that by the Jews of Israel that worship the same “invisible man.” How do you keep this all sorted in your head?
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Not a big fan of any organized religion: that keeps things real simple and peaceful. True, we are all way more similar than we are different.
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
Christianity in a nutshell: the invisible man sent his son to be tortured and crucified on a cross to death as a sacrifice for humankind. This is after the invisible man destroyed the world in a flood. If you don't believe in the invisible man's son, you burn forever in the eternal hellfires. Christians engage in an act of eating Christ's flesh and drinking his blood.

And, the invisible man and his son love you.
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I’m generally not sincere on here, but sincerely you do need God in your life. You have a lot of hatred in your heart and Christ can help you with that. I wish you well.
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
You feel like the violence cycles have solved something and that Israel is totally innocent in this conflict? You believe Israel can defeat the cause that Hamas stands for? I'm the 5 year old?

The Arab states surrounding Israel have made peace with Israel for the most part. If they can make peace, then it isn't impossible, right?
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Really is time for you to stop.
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
Christianity in a nutshell: the invisible man sent his son to be tortured and crucified on a cross to death as a sacrifice for humankind. This is after the invisible man destroyed the world in a flood. If you don't believe in the invisible man's son, you burn forever in the eternal hellfires. Christians engage in an act of eating Christ's flesh and drinking his blood.

And, the invisible man and his son love you.
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Show me on the dolly where the priest touched you.

You are more and more making your motives clear, and it's not to defend the Palestinians - it's to blame Christianity for anything and everything.

Why the hate? If someone wants to believe something, what's it to you? Seriously, were you abused by a Christian in some way?
 
JamieDimonsBalls said:
You mean like the arrests, executions and expulsion of Jews from Arab countries like Iran, Yemen, etc.?
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Pretty spot on JDB. Following 1948, Jews were expelled from every single majority Arab country in the region. Multiples more than the number of Palestinians displaced in the creation of Israel. Israel accepted every. single. one. of. them. You want to talk about displacement and refugees? Give me a ****ing break.

Yet we shouldn't expect the Arab countries to lift a finger for the Palestinians, lord help us that would be awful.

Of the millions of people displaced through the duration and in the aftermath of WW2, these moron Palestinians are the only people were still dealing with to this day.

At what point do we recognize it's a Palestinian problem? How long should we shove our heads in the sand in the name of sensitivity?
 
snarlcakes said:
I’m generally not sincere on here, but sincerely you do need God in your life. You have a lot of hatred in your heart and Christ can help you with that. I wish you well.
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Why does everything have to be so binary? If you are a Christian you must have hatred in your heart?

What if @HoosierJimbo89 was a muslim? He has the love of Allah in his heart so will he also have less hatred?

Or does that only apply to Christian?
 
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