How do you deal with Islam?

[Aloha Hoosier]

Do you hear yourself? How do two wrongs make a right? It is ok for one side to kill civilians, but not ok for the other? Israel always ends up killing more Palestinians in the violence cycle. How about both sides just stop killing innocent people? The mental gymnastics people will go through to justify killing women and children: Jesus Christ. 10 commandments, anybody: thou shall not kil?

When you round people up into a pen, restrict their movements, and toss a grenade in the pen, you are going to kill people. As Donnie Baker says, you don't need Einstein to do that math.

Well, no. I typed it I don’t read the words aloud when I read. However, I understand what I wrote and stand behind every word of it. It would do you some good if you understood the difference between the crime of deliberately targeting of civilians and the legitimate right of self defense and that collateral deaths of civilians killed while targeting the enemy is tragic, but not a crime.

I’m a former military officer and know the laws of war and what constitutes a war crime. It would help if you understood it. It’s not a matter of numbers (inflated or not) it’s about legitimate or illegitimate objectives and targeting.

Also, the commandment is really “Thou Shall Not Murder.” There’s a difference.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

@BradStevens

Here's another good example to add to my too-long essay above about why all this fighting over history is pretty stupid. After the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, they banished all the Jews from the area. Constantine rebuilt the city and sponsored Christian worship there, but you know what he didn't allow? Jews. You know who finally let Jews back into Jerusalem? The Muslims. Omar, the second Caliph, conquered the city and allowed the Jews to return and freely worship there for the first time in centuries.

 

[BradStevens]

Religious zealotry is like a Hydra. Chop one head off, and another grows. There will always be a “Hamas” because there will always be the desire to seek out infidels and apostates. There will always be a perceived wrong to right. The mujahideen of Afghanistan become Al Qaeda, which in turn spawned ISIS; the Muslim Brotherhood is now something else, and on and on. So, this not the end game—just simply a never ending loop until two societies figure it out. These events will spawn more mujahideen (and I’m not critical of Israel, but rather the simple concept that this is what always happens).

You might be right and this is an interesting post.

But it's depressing AF. If you post like this, you're never going to increase your abysmal .097 RSR.* Lighten it up, bruh!

*Reaction Score Ratio

 

[BradStevens]

@BradStevens

Here's another good example to add to my too-long essay above about why all this fighting over history is pretty stupid. After the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, they banished all the Jews from the area. Constantine rebuilt the city and sponsored Christian worship there, but you know what he didn't allow? Jews. You know who finally let Jews back into Jerusalem? The Muslims. Omar, the second Caliph, conquered the city and allowed the Jews to return and freely worship there for the first time in centuries.

Yeah, I just listened to a Rest is History pod (you guys tired of me pimping these guys out?) on the history of Baghdad. It's pretty fascinating. They start with a history of the Ummayed Caliphates. Check it out.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Well, no. I typed it I don’t read the words aloud when I read. However, I understand what I wrote and stand behind every word of it. It would do you some good if you understood the difference between the crime of deliberately targeting of civilians and the legitimate right of self defense and that collateral deaths of civilians killed while targeting the enemy is tragic, but not a crime.

I’m a former military officer and know the laws of war and what constitutes a war crime. It would help if you understood it. It’s not a matter of numbers (inflated or not) it’s about legitimate or illegitimate objectives and targeting.

Also, the commandment is really “Thou Shall Not Murder.” There’s a difference.

I understand that killing is wrong: period. I'm not going to perform mental gymnastics or justify killing civilians, including women and children. I'm certainly not going to justify genocide.

If you believe the military is any type of a moral barometer, then we will very much disagree. Dropping bombs and napalm on women and children takes the military out of the moral running by itself.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

the leaders on both sides would rather kill civilians than work out the final details of peace.

I think this statement is flat dead wrong and Is why we don’t have peace. The notion that Israel and Jews kill Muslims in the same manner and reasons as vice versa is crazy. Your comment is the product of of persistent and clear Palestinian propaganda that has infected the West.

If Palestine disarms, there will be peace. If Israel disarms there will be genocide.

 

[Indyhorn]

Exactly. The Arabs have been rejecting proposals the entire time. They aren't serious people.

Religion and government never intertwine well- Arabs are very devout, and crappy at administration

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I think this statement is flat dead wrong and Is why we don’t have peace. The notion that Israel and Jews kill Muslims in the same manner and reasons as vice versa is crazy. Your comment is the product of of persistent and clear Palestinian propaganda that has infected the West.

If Palestine disarms, there will be peace. If Israel disarms there will be genocide.

No, I just educated myself about the conflict, and I find less and less to like about Israel the more I do. Not saying Palestinians are saints.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Dropping bombs and napalm on women and children takes the military out of the moral running by itself.

I am unaware that Israel is using napalm in Gaza, Where do you get this.

There is no equivalency between slaughtering and dismembering by hand civilians in their homes and civilians being killed because their neighbors chose to use their neighborhoods to launch deadly indiscriminate terrorism.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I understand that killing is wrong: period. I'm not going to perform mental gymnastics or justify killing civilians, including women and children. I'm certainly not going to justify genocide.

If you believe the military is any type of a moral barometer, then we will very much disagree. Dropping bombs and napalm on women and children takes the military out of the moral running by itself.

War is hell and the last resort, but there are rules we follow which the terrorists do not. They deliberately target civilians ands we don’t.

I don’t need your moral support, especially if you think what the terrorists did and what the IDF is doing are morally equivalent. If you think that, and it seems you do, your moral compass is broken.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

No, I just educated myself about the conflict, and I find less and less to like about Israel the more I do. Not saying Palestinians are saints.

One can always find what they are looking forward in the sea of misinformation.

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

How many times have you been banned today? The Crusades aren't over if you "believe" they aren't: go on over to Israel and do some killing in the name of, psycho. Once again: time to evolve, for you are the problem. What you are talking about is Genocide: Israel will be no different from the Nazis at that point.

I'll bet the violence "this time" ends the conflict. It's been going on for 80 years, but I'll bet the violence will end it this time.

Religious zealotry is like a Hydra. Chop one head off, and another grows. There will always be a “Hamas” because there will always be the desire to seek out infidels and apostates. There will always be a perceived wrong to right. The mujahideen of Afghanistan become Al Qaeda, which in turn spawned ISIS; the Muslim Brotherhood is now something else, and on and on. So, this not the end game—just simply a never ending loop until two societies figure it out. These events will spawn more mujahideen (and I’m not critical of Israel, but rather the simple concept that this is what always happens).

I'm not talking about genocide. Unless you think Dresden was also a genocide, or Sherman's march to the sea. This is not a religious war for Israel, you complete and utter morons. People are distorting and bastardizing Netanyahu"s cabinet to make them seem like the next Crusader's while forgetting that the ceasefire they are now calling for was in effect on October 6th. Do you even know anything about Israel's Judicial reforms? Because I've heard compelling arguments on both sides and the idea of Bibi as some sort of autocratic, religous fanatic bent of conquest is straight garbage progressive propaganda.

@Mark Milton In regards to religious zealotry. I don't disagree with you in regards to Islam. Tel Aviv is one of the secular cities I've ever visited frankly, maybe third to NYC or L.A. Possibly London. Defintely Israel is a more secular country than the U.S. While the death of religion saddens me in many ways. Maybe a European style secularization is what th Middle East region needs. But let's be clear. It's Islam causing the violence. Not judaism.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

War is hell and the last resort, but there are rules we follow which the terrorists do not. The deliberately target civilians ands we don’t.

I don’t need your moral support, especially if you think what the terrorists did and what the IDF is doing are morally equivalent. If you think that, and it seems you do, your moral compass is broken.

I certainly don't need a moral speech by somebody in the military. Your business is killing: good day.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

One can always find what they are looking forward in the sea of misinformation.

So, anything that criticizes Israel is misinformation or anti-semitism? That doesn't sound logical. Perhaps you need to educate yourself.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I certainly don't need a moral speech by somebody in the military. Your business is killing: good day.

My business was defending America. You’re welcome.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

My business was defending America. You’re welcome.

Agree to disagree.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I am unaware that Israel is using napalm in Gaza, Where do you get this.

There is no equivalency between slaughtering and dismembering by hand civilians in their homes and civilians being killed because their neighbors chose to use their neighborhoods to launch deadly indiscriminate terrorism.

I was responding to somebody else.

If you want to employ a double standard for killing civilians, then that is your moral choice. I would morally disagree.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Agree to disagree.

So you think we shouldn’t have a military?

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

So you think we shouldn’t have a military?

Our Founding Fathers certainly were against a standing army. At best, the military is way too big: Dwight tried to warn us. I'd be fine without one.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I was responding to somebody else.

If you want to employ a double standard for killing civilians, then that is your moral choice. I would morally disagree.

It isn’t a double standard. It’s disturbing that you think deliberately killing civilians is the same as accidentally killing some while targeting the civilian killers is morally equivalent. It’s actually kind of childlike that you think that way.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Religious zealotry is like a Hydra. Chop one head off, and another grows. There will always be a “Hamas” because there will always be the desire to seek out infidels and apostates. There will always be a perceived wrong to right. The mujahideen of Afghanistan become Al Qaeda, which in turn spawned ISIS; the Muslim Brotherhood is now something else, and on and on. So, this not the end game—just simply a never ending loop until two societies figure it out. These events will spawn more mujahideen (and I’m not critical of Israel, but rather the simple concept that this is what always happens).

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

It isn’t a double standard. It’s disturbing that you think deliberately killing civilians is the same as accidentally killing some while targeting the civilian killers is morally equivalent. It’s actually kind of childlike that you think that way.

Killing civilians is wrong: period. Easy on the personal attacks and name-calling: that isn't debate.

Rounding up people into a pen, restricting their movements, and tossing a grenade in the pen is basically genocide.

Agree to disagree on what is moral.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Our Founding Fathers certainly were against a standing army. At best, the military is way too big: Dwight tried to warn us. I'd be fine without one.

Things have changed quite a bit since our early years. Your thinking is naive at best in today’s world. It didn’t last all that long in our early years either.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Killing civilians is wrong: period. Easy on the personal attacks and name-calling: that isn't debate.

Rounding up people into a pen, restricting their movements, and tossing a grenade in the pen is basically genocide.

Agree to disagree on what is moral.

I called you no names.

Also, look up the definition of genocide.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Things have changed quite a bit since our early years. Your thinking is naive at best in today’s world. It didn’t last all that long in our early years either.

You think the military isn't a threat to democracy? Take all or most of the money spent on the military, spend it on people, and the world would be a better place.

If somebody wants to try and take my house, good luck. I don't need the military to help with that.

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

Our Founding Fathers certainly were against a standing army. At best, the military is way too big: Dwight tried to warn us. I'd be fine without one.

Lol. You are such a clown. "Provide for the Common Defense" is also the only explicit authority granted to the Federal government in the constitution. Is this all a big troll you're doing?

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Lol. You are such a clown. "Provide for the Common Defense" is also the only explicit authority granted to the Federal government in the constitution. Is this all a big troll you're doing?

Are you trying to set a record for being banned in one day? The Crusades are waiting! Go get 'em.

I probably interpret the 2A differently than you do.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

"Provide for the Common Defense" is also the only explicit authority granted to the Federal government in the constitution.

That's not remotely accurate.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You think the military isn't a threat to democracy? Take all or most of the money spent on the military, spend it on people, and the world would be a better place.

If somebody wants to try and take my house, good luck. I don't need the military to help with that.

Our military is no threat to our democracy. We defend democracy. Unless you get the entire world to get rid of their militaries, we need ours.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I called you no names.

Also, look up the definition of genocide.

Rounding up Palestinians in one area, restricting their movements, and then bombing that area sounds like a final solution to me. You and I are helping to fund this.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Our military is no threat to our democracy. We defend democracy. Unless you get the entire world to get rid of their militaries, we need ours.

If we need to fight a war, we can start up where we left off.

Any military is a threat to democracy: it can take over the government through force.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Rounding up Palestinians in one area, restricting their movements, and then bombing that area sounds like a final solution to me. You and I are helping to fund this.

We also provide aid to the Palestinians. Instead of using it to better their living conditions, they use it to help themselves commit terrorism against Israelis.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

We also provide aid to the Palestinians. Instead of using it to better their living conditions, they use it to help themselves commit terrorism against Israelis.

You really think every Palestinian is a terrorist? If somebody took your home, land, and property, rounded you up into a pen, restricted your movements, and generally mistreated you, would you consider that terrifying? Would you fight back?

We give Israel $4 billion a year, which goes to their military. There is an obvious power imbalance between Palestinians and Israel.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

If we need to fight a war, we can start up where we left off.

Any military is a threat to democracy: it can take over the government through force.

That was a problem for us more than once in our history.

Our very well trained and educated military is totally committed to the idea of civilian control of it. You don’t know much about our military or how it works. That’s OK, you’re not alone.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You really think every Palestinian is a terrorist? If somebody took your home, land, and property, rounded you up into a pen, restricted your movements, and generally mistreated you, would you consider that terrifying? Would you fight back?

We give Israel $4 billion a year, which goes to their military. There is an obvious power imbalance between Palestinians and Israel.

Nope. Not all are terrorists, but their leadership in Gaza is Hamas, and they are terrorists more interested in terrorism than bettering the lives of others in Gaza.

I’m good with the power imbalance. Israel does not militarily attack Palestinians, they respond to attacks by Palestinian terrorists. Imagine what Palestinians would do with US military aid. That isn’t a pretty thought.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Nope. Not all are terrorists, but their leadership in Gaza is Hamas, and they are terrorists more interested in terrorism than bettering the lives of others in Gaza.

I’m good with the power imbalance. Israel does not militarily attack Palestinians, they respond to attacks by Palestinian terrorists. Imagine what Palestinians would do with US military aid. That isn’t a pretty thought.

You dodged the question. Restated: "If somebody took your home, land, and property, rounded you up into a pen, restricted your movements, and generally mistreated you, would you consider that terrifying? Would you fight back?"

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You dodged the question. Restated: "If somebody took your home, land, and property, rounded you up into a pen, restricted your movements, and generally mistreated you, would you consider that terrifying? Would you fight back?"

I don’t entirely accept your premise, but even if I did, terrorism is terrorism and it’s not justified. Period.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I don’t entirely accept your premise, but even if I did, terrorism is terrorism and it’s not justified. Period.

Cop-out. Apparently, you are ok with people committing numerous crimes against you.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Cop-out. Apparently, you are ok with people committing numerous crimes against you.

Let’s cut to the chase. Do you think the terrorist attacks of 7 October were justified? Sure seems that you do.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

So, anything that criticizes Israel is misinformation or anti-semitism? That doesn't sound logical. Perhaps you need to educate yourself.

I have educated myself. The plethora of misinformation about Hamas, Iran, and its surrogates is astounding. Most of the western press ran with Hamas’s fake hospital bombing without a modicum of independent verification. The presumption should be that any pro- Palestine or pro-Hamas reporting is fake until shown otherwise.

Do you care to explain where you heard about napalm or did you just make it up.