Has patriotism in the U.S. become political?

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

If you think MAGA are talking about what life was like four years ago, you're an idiot. I know for a fact you're not.

So your answer is no, the world is not better?

For a lot of people, relatively speaking, they are not doing as well as their parents. For them, then, on an economic basis, America has not gotten better. These are Dem talking points by the way--price of college, flat wages, skyrocketing housing prices. All things you might hear Biden or AOC or Sanders or Harris or Warren talk about in a typical campaign speech.



So it most certainly does depend on where you sit and what, exactly, you are talking about.

 

[UncleMark]

I think it goes farther back. Our parents’ time. When manufacturers and industry were here. When people worked at factories and made a good living. When the American dream felt more attainable. When times were better for the average Joe. When a college degree wasn’t required.

Bingo. Mid 50s to mid 70s. When right here in Bton, a high school grad could get a job at GE or Westinghouse or RCA or Otis. Could afford a slab house in Highland Village. Could have a couple decent cars. If the wife worked too, you had it made. Your kid could go to college without amassing decades of debt. You could go to the Smokies or Florida once a year. And all the people you knew and worked with and went to church with and bowled with and played softball with were in the same boat.

The boom times started coming to an end with the inflation of the early 70s followed by the oil crises and the decline of the US auto industry and globalization and the demise of the unions.

 

[stollcpa]

If he despises the left then he’s right wing. And possibly a nut.

Wrong.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Bingo. Mid 50s to mid 70s. When right here in Bton, a high school grad could get a job at GE or Westinghouse or RCA or Otis. Could afford a slab house in Highland Village. Could have a couple decent cars. If the wife worked too, you had it made. Your kid could go to college without amassing decades of debt. You could go to the Smokies or Florida once a year. And all the people you knew and worked with and went to church with and bowled with and played softball with were in the same boat.

The boom times started coming to an end with the inflation of the early 70s followed by the oil crises and the decline of the US auto industry and globalization and the demise of the unions.

i think that's maga. and those years are the sweet spot. and i think you are spot on with everything you write. and trump being the marketing guy he is tapped into that nostalgia. but the reality imo is that there is no going back. in part bc of what you write re your last sentence

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think it goes farther back. Our parents’ time. When manufacturers and industry were here. When people worked at factories and made a good living. When the American dream felt more attainable. When times were better for the average Joe. When a college degree wasn’t required. Not slavery. Not race. The American dream. And it’s true. When the average new car is $50k we have problems

MAGA means a lot of things. There is a huge amount of good things that no longer exist or are unattainable for many people.

The Democrats don’t have a way to match the good things MAGA means so they dredge the swamps and the sewers to come up with historical sins or other negativity. Then Biden convinced people that MEGA-MAGA is the worst thing since Hitler and bad for Democracy. The media is in on this.

I don’t know why I even tried to argue the point. The democrats are nuttier than ever.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Bingo. Mid 50s to mid 70s. When right here in Bton, a high school grad could get a job at GE or Westinghouse or RCA or Otis. Could afford a slab house in Highland Village. Could have a couple decent cars. If the wife worked too, you had it made. Your kid could go to college without amassing decades of debt. You could go to the Smokies or Florida once a year. And all the people you knew and worked with and went to church with and bowled with and played softball with were in the same boat.

The boom times started coming to an end with the inflation of the early 70s followed by the oil crises and the decline of the US auto industry and globalization and the demise of the unions.

and the guys at your old job who you'd help with taxes/unemployment etc are left behind by tech and modernization and the new fields and industry. there's an entire segment of the population being left behind

 

[UncleMark]

i think that's maga. and those years are the sweet spot. and i think you are spot on with everything you write. and trump being the marketing guy he is tapped into that nostalgia. but the reality imo is that there is no going back. in part bc of what you write re your last sentence

You must be feeling better. You're back to posting like igw.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

i think that's maga. and those years are the sweet spot. and i think you are spot on with everything you write. and trump being the marketing guy he is tapped into that nostalgia. but the reality imo is that there is no going back. in part bc of what you write re your last sentence

Kinda true. But living conditions are worse than they need to be. Energy is an important currency of a high standard of living. Biden is doing everything one would want to make energy more expensive, more unreliable, and more scarce. All of it unnecessary.

Now comes food. The start is the tributary water regulations Biden put into effect a week ago. It will take a while, but food will also be more expensive, more unreliable, and more scarce. All of that is also unnecessary.

 

[hookyIU1990]

If he despises the left then he’s right wing.

That's a narrow view. It's not an either/or situation. You can despise the left and not be right wing, just as you can despise the right and not be left wing. Plenty of people have come to despise both.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

i think that's maga. and those years are the sweet spot. and i think you are spot on with everything you write. and trump being the marketing guy he is tapped into that nostalgia. but the reality imo is that there is no going back. in part bc of what you write re your last sentence

He tapped into the feeling of being left behind. I think that's different than nostalgia.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Kinda true. But living conditions are worse than they need to be. Energy is an important currency of a high standard of living. Biden is doing everything one would want to make energy more expensive, more unreliable, and more scarce. All of it unnecessary.

Now comes food. The start is the tributary water regulations Biden put into effect a week ago. It will take a while, but food will also be more expensive, more unreliable, and more scarce. All of that is also unnecessary.

There are certainly changes and there’s an opportunity to bring some manufacturing back but much of what people say is just talk. They don’t understand/appreciate the amount that has been devoted to infrastructure for manufacturing in other parts of the world. The factories are already built. They are there. The expense to bring it back here is tantamount to starting from scratch in many industries.

 

[mcmurtry66]

He tapped into the feeling of being left behind. I think that's different than nostalgia.

I think it’s both. Nostalgia for the past and fear for the future

 

[UncleMark]

That douche is first in line donating money to needy causes. I know numerous instances, some I was personally involved in where he stepped up when he didn’t know the person involved.

When he sold his business a few years ago he gave enormous bonuses to all employees out of his own sales proceeds. He never told me. A mutual friend’s son in law had only worked for the business a little over a year. He got a six figure bonus and was shocked.

He’s a great guy. This left wing bullshit get old.

None of that changes his douchity. You can't buy your way out of being a douche.

 

[mcmurtry66]

None of that changes his douchity. You can't buy your way out of being a douche.

You can buy your way into it tho. #flatbills

 

[larsIU]

If you think MAGA are talking about what life was like four years ago, you're an idiot. I know for a fact you're not.

Well that would have been 6-7 years ago.

Pedantry for the win.

 

[stollcpa]

None of that changes his douchity. You can't buy your way out of being a douche.

Good night.

 

[Crayfish57]

For some, it may be the sins of our past (re:slavery), for others it is not wanting to be associated with people that have spewed hatred while claiming to be patriotic (creating a connection between the 2).

For example, seeing a bunch of MAGA people in red hats or flying their flags while spewing hatred on national television would thus make wearing red hats and the flag less appealing to others because they don't want to be associated with those people.

Good lord you are the poster child to explain why some animals eat their young

 

[Crayfish57]

Flat bill seems like you’re trying too hard. A little bit of a douche bag too. Backwards is fine under 30. Gym. Whatever. Neither are for Brad

I generally wear bucket/fishing hats. I hate caps with the plastic snap on the back and wear the real caps when I do in. The only time I wear one backwards is when I have a welding helmet on. I have cherished worn fitted baseball cap with Chief Wahoo on it

 

[Crayfish57]

You would like like a complete fool in any ha

sadly... I have stopped wearing my red IU baseball cap, since at first glance, wearing any red hat makes you look like a MAGA Klansman.

You would like like a complete fool in any hat you wore. I have you pictured as a cheap plastic gas station head scarf to keep your perm dry kind of person.

 

[Crayfish57]

If I saw a neighbor off in the distance wearing a red hat, without being able to make out the logo, the thought would cross my mind that maybe I have a MAGA bigot for a neighbor. Sad but true. It's almost like a white hooded robe.

I bet everytime your neighbor sees you poke you miserable head out of your hole regardless of what you are wearing he says'' goddamn my neighbor is an a$$hole''. Its not sad but it is true.

 

[Crayfish57]

About the same as all the posters here with early stage bds.

Most even have hds as well who wasn't even president.

Is that the one Zeke thinks is stalking her?

 

[Crayfish57]

It isn't conplicated. Certain looks have been appropriated by the MAGA crowd, like red hats and hooded white robes, as examples. They seem to be trying to tie flag imagery to their bigoted world view as well. We've all seen the ridiculous flag-draped pickup trucks. I fight that, though. I will fly my flag in my yard.

The question is what flag is it?

 

[zeke4ahs]

I generally wear bucket/fishing hats. I hate caps with the plastic snap on the back and wear the real caps when I do in. The only time I wear one backwards is when I have a welding helmet on. I have cherished worn fitted baseball cap with Chief Wahoo on it

Exactly what I have pictured

 

[Circlejoe]

Sounds like a douche.

Sounds like an idiot. Hell, the idiots elected the most Incompetent and corrupt President in our history just to piss of the left. This idiot is no different.

 

[Crayfish57]

I can’t believe you can ever be a credible expert when you make associations like that. Try that on the witness stand and a good cross examiner will gut you like a dead pig.

If anything he says is remotely the truth then the court should have access to what he posts on here. The only thing he would have a hope of testifying about is fecal matter.

 

[Crayfish57]

maga is the notion that times were better. life was more affordable. manufacturing took place here. the working class, blue collar folks didn't feel less than or left out. there isn't a laborer on earth i wouldn't rather spend time with than your creepy, nerdy ass in a lab coat with piss stains and your covid mask on. you are one gross, creepy pussy. it would be great fun to slap you around

Road trip this summer? You have to let things grow out a cpl weeks ahead of time though and bloody a knuckle before we leave.

 

[Crayfish57]

If you think MAGA are talking about what life was like four years ago, you're an idiot. I know for a fact you're not.

I know for a fact that you don't know that for a fact . This thread is remarkable show of just how dumb liberals are and it started in a thread about hats

 

[mcmurtry66]

Bingo. Mid 50s to mid 70s. When right here in Bton, a high school grad could get a job at GE or Westinghouse or RCA or Otis. Could afford a slab house in Highland Village. Could have a couple decent cars. If the wife worked too, you had it made. Your kid could go to college without amassing decades of debt. You could go to the Smokies or Florida once a year. And all the people you knew and worked with and went to church with and bowled with and played softball with were in the same boat.

The boom times started coming to an end with the inflation of the early 70s followed by the oil crises and the decline of the US auto industry and globalization and the demise of the unions.

It’s interesting to think about that time in the 50s. You had the depression of the 30s followed by the war years of the 40s leading into this new moneyed middle class of the 50s and suburbs and consumption and all of that. I always think that would have been a great, simple time to grow up

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

That douche is first in line donating money to needy causes. I know numerous instances, some I was personally involved in where he stepped up when he didn’t know the person involved.

When he sold his business a few years ago he gave enormous bonuses to all employees out of his own sales proceeds. He never told me. A mutual friend’s son in law had only worked for the business a little over a year. He got a six figure bonus and was shocked.

He’s a great guy. This left wing bullshit get old.

He may do some positive things. Stuff isn't black and white. People aren't pure evil or pure good.

He still sounds like a douche

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

That's a narrow view. It's not an either/or situation. You can despise the left and not be right wing, just as you can despise the right and not be left wing. Plenty of people have come to despise both.

If he despised both then he would probably have a hunter fan club golf accessory to piss off the right as well

I think stoll was pretty clear that his friend did stuff just to piss off the evil libs.

 

[Crayfish57]

Exactly what I have pictured

Is that when you fantasize about me stalking you? Tell us all about that.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Exactly. MAGA is the notion that it used to be better. And that's a problem. Because things aren't perfect now, but they absolutely, positively, did not used to be better.

You can't go that far though. I think that is the whole point that you, Tommy, and I got around to earlier in a round about way. History is messy. There isn't one set narrative. There are things you can absolutely make an argument for being "better" back in the day and also arguments to be made for worse. And it isn't racially dependent either. It really matters on what you focus on. The racism issue was obviously worse. That wasn't better. Then again, the black inner cities were not war zones either, that was better. Economic opportunities were available that did not require the level of education needed today. That helped keep more blue collar workers middle class. Mom's did not necessarily have to work but you could argue women had less agency. And we could probably continue a list of pro and con that would be quite long.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I don't know, I never voted for any Dems in '92 or 2008 and as I recall I didn't really focus on slogans and dumb ditties.

But here you are 30 and 15 years later focusing on the color of a ****ing hat....

 

[hookyIU1990]

If he despised both then he would probably have a hunter fan club golf accessory to piss off the right as well

I think stoll was pretty clear that his friend did stuff just to piss off the evil libs.

Maybe, but we don't know. Zeke's idea that if you despise the left, it must mean you're right wing isn't a given by any means.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

You can't go that far though. I think that is the whole point that you, Tommy, and I got around to earlier in a round about way. History is messy. There isn't one set narrative. There are things you can absolutely make an argument for being "better" back in the day and also arguments to be made for worse. And it isn't racially dependent either. It really matters on what you focus on. The racism issue was obviously worse. That wasn't better. Then again, the black inner cities were not war zones either, that was better. Economic opportunities were available that did not require the level of education needed today. That helped keep more blue collar workers middle class. Mom's did not necessarily have to work but you could argue women had less agency. And we could probably continue a list of pro and con that would be quite long.

It is messy as all of the things that you mention here. One other messy piece, for the sake of this discussion, is that it's not the same, at the same time, equally for everyone. What may be bad for my current day may be great for yours.

 

[Crayfish57]

It’s interesting to think about that time in the 50s. You had the depression of the 30s followed by the war years of the 40s leading into this new moneyed middle class of the 50s and suburbs and consumption and all of that. I always think that would have been a great, simple time to grow up

Lets go see outside this summer . I have a place we can crash at a few days in Fla . Show him what real men do besides testify at court hearings , That is one of the best covers of all time! You need fur to hang with me though . I know Zeke is already having fantasies. Here is a hat not mentioned , from the people that built where we are living in today. Old style hard hats. Zeke has already had the sump pump running tonight from all the rain so I didnt post a photo

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Lets go see outside this summer . I have a place we can crash at a few days in Fla . Show him what real men do besides testify at court hearings , That is one of the best covers of all time! You need fur to hang with me though . I know Zeke is already having fantasies. Here is a hat not mentioned , from the people that built where we are living in today. Old style hard hats. Zeke has already had the sump pump running tonight from all the rain so I didnt post a photo

"Real men." "fur" "hard hats"

Cray, are you in the Village People?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Lets go see outside this summer . I have a place we can crash at a few days in Fla . Show him what real men do besides testify at court hearings , That is one of the best covers of all time! You need fur to hang with me though . I know Zeke is already having fantasies. Here is a hat not mentioned , from the people that built where we are living in today. Old style hard hats. Zeke has already had the sump pump running tonight from all the rain so I didnt post a photo

24/7/365

 

[Crayfish57]

24/7/365

So glad to see you understand your problem! Zeke Trump 24/7/365

 

[Morrison]

It’s interesting to think about that time in the 50s. You had the depression of the 30s followed by the war years of the 40s leading into this new moneyed middle class of the 50s and suburbs and consumption and all of that. I always think that would have been a great, simple time to grow up

Which one would’ve been your wife?