Happy for all participating in Women's marches around the world
- Thread starter iu_a_att
- Start date
I don't have a strong opinion about what the right 'political' move is here, but I will offer that it's not abundantly obvious to me that the 'narrow focus' is a mistake. If they have their sights set on accomplishing something, they may have done the math and determined that to accomplish something, they need to be aggressive, rally the folks most in support (as it turns out, that's a shiteload of people), and avoid watering down what matters most (i.e., the whole package). History suggests to me that sometimes you need to move fast, aggressively and uncompromisingly to make a difference and that sometimes calculating an 'inclusive' line is a losing strategy because it kills the heat.
Meh, they are kinda reacting to a narrative loosely based on a few facts, but mostly creative victimhood crafted by the DNC and their media cohorts.
Told you I wasn't the only angry woman! Can't write much now, as I have a quick turn around from the march to basketball. I made myself read this entire thread before responding and I'll just say, it's pretty much what I expected. Later on this evening, I'll talk about what I heard and saw at the Indy March and will have spoken to friends at the NY, Chicago , and D.C. Of course.
But have to respond to this. I'm so very glad we have a couple men here that feel free to tell women what they think and why they do what they do. And that, my friend , is exactly why we march.
The lengths to go to in order to defend every single thing about Trump are truly mind boggling.
Let me guess...this is actually PBS' fault! Or perhaps 60 minutes?!
Explain. I do feel free to tell, not only women, but most people, what I think and explain why I think it. Outside of disagreeing with some universal liberal positions, I don't think I have disagreed with any women just cuz they are women. If I am why you march, I'd like to hear more about that. Or are you just spouting platitudes?
As I said, I would match my support of women and girl/student cred against anybody, including yours.
Checking the principles of the march...
REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS
We believe in Reproductive Freedom. We do not accept any federal, state or local rollbacks, cuts or restrictions on our ability to access quality reproductive healthcare services, birth control, HIV/AIDS care and prevention, or medically accurate sexuality education. This means open access to safe, legal, affordable abortion and birth control for all people, regardless of income, location or education.
I'm not defending Trump. The turnout today all over the country was undeniable. Where was this level of participation last fall, one wonders?
That said, this was not an organic protest driven by some social injustice, like it begs to be portrayed as. It's based on partial truths and emotional hysteria fomented by the DNC (whom I assume is paying for it) and the SJMedia.
But knock yourselves out...
Just to be clear, that statement of not accepting any restrictions on abortion is the radical position in America, including among women, according to poll after poll. it's OK with me if the radicals on abortion want to push the moderate and conservative women towards the Republican Party.
I don't think that's fair. I thought lots of the tea party stuff was uninformed, but even at that, it's not unreasonable for citizens to demand their tax money be put to good use.
On that note, I think it's tone deaf to dismiss out of hand the genuine concerns of those marching today and the actual, real world issues they face.
Apparently millions of women are under the impression that the fellow you just elected plans to appoint justices, staff his cabinet with people who believe the state has compelling interest in preventing women from safe and legal abortion. In the service of that they see that the fellow you just elected plans to defund Planned Parenthood who provides millions of women with health care services far beyond abortion. They get the idea that the fellow you just elected is looking to get rid of legal protections for LGBTQ that they see as critical. They aren't wrong about these things. Your indifference and even hostility to these goals makes you part of the reason they march. On those issues, if we can believe your posts here, you have no cred. Of course, as they say in their principles.
Interesting. I looked at some of the photos of the D.C. march and easily more than 80% of the signs had to do with abortion and reproductive rights. That ship sailed more than 40 years ago. All that is involved now are the fringe issues that the courts have a pretty good handle on. Marches and demonstrations don't have a lot of effect inside of the court room.
Kinda sad that the feminist movement must still ride the abortion horse in order to attract a crowd. There are so many more 21st century issues that can be addressed such as STEM education, entrepreneurship, (in the individual and economic sense) and freeedom from victim status that would be infinetely more helpful in the long run.
As I said, I get where you are coming from. I would always look for a way to build a bridge between people. I remember attending an large event in Indiana in late 70s I think related to the equal rights amendment. Bus loads of evangelical women were brought in and the conference was unable to agree on anything. I thought to myself how much these women might have agreed upon. Either you think your body is your own or you think it is somebody else's. It is hard to get past that difference I guess. I sure don't have a solution.
I've always said that if men got pregnant but everything else was exactly the same abortion wouldn't even be a conversation. We wouldn't have someone who can't get pregnant dictate to us.
We can all have an opinion but the idea that old white guys get to determine a woman's choice is ridiculous.
That's pretty ignorant. Since the founding of the United States, we have been on a steady, unmistakable, and irreversible course of more and more civil rights and individual freedom. We have never ever taken a step backwards. To think that Trump can do this is nonsense. It is out there just to attract attention. Some people do that by burning cars and throwing bricks through windows. others do that by scaring people with things that won't happen.
"On those issues, if we can believe your posts here, you have no cred." If you think you can figure out me, or anybody, through brief posts on a political forum, you indeed like to trade in ignorance. What anybody posts here is a tiny fraction of who they are. Most posters have signficant lives and accomplishments in the real world that has nothing to do with the political issues discussed here from time to time.
For some reason millions of women are under the impression that abortion rights are very much on the table. Given the systematic barriers states across the south are erecting to abortion, given the defunding ot Planned Parenthood I would say these millions of women have good cause to worry. I think the motivations for the March go well beyond reproductive rights but that seems to be a big concern. What effect the marches have remains to be seen. I am astonished at the turnout across the nation.
It's pretty clear that "rollbacks, cuts or restrictions" refers to perceived attempts at new restrictions, not at the concept of restrictions entirely. The women protesting fear - with good cause - that a number of governments want to continue restricting various forms of family planning, including abortion, even beyond what it already is. They also fear - reasonably - that a Trump administration, with help from a GOP Congress, will accomplish things that help push that trend. Your criticism of their principle is based on a misrepresentation of what it is they are actually concerned about, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
Well, one abortion doc is a convicted felon and doing time for disgraceful abortion techniques. The so-called barriers are not unreasonable in every case. If a consumer product caused the damage that doctor caused, the FTC would be all over it.
As I said, I have absolutely no objection and heartily support the freedom of expression shown by this march. But this isn't to say that the march is a good thing. References to Trump having sex with his daughter is way over the top. Large group mentality driven by hate simply cannot keep it classy.
What are you talking about? The Hyde Amendment is already law. There is not much more that would be done.
I will let slide the ad hominem and ask if you are overlooking the part of American history called the Jim Crow era?To me that looks like a very major and long term step back from the equality that was taking shape during reconstruction.
Cred is what other people have reason to believe about you (the word means belief after all). Whatever cred anyone has is not in their possession but in the possession of others. Outside of this forum it may be that most people who know you would say, as you do, that nobody has more cred on women's issues than you do. I have no idea about that. But on this forum, as someone who reads a good bit of what you post here, I can honestly tell you that you have earned no cred with me on those issues. You have lots of cred with me on other topics, for example the law and politics...but not on women's rights. But that is just my perspective. There are many other posters here so you may have tremendous cred on this issue with them.
Let's stay divided!
Keep the hate alive!
Do you think Trump would refuse to hire women? Refuse to do business with companies run by women?
Isn't all this about abortion and nothing else?
Given the atmosphere of indecency Trump has helped promote I am also truly astounded at the decency of the marchers. Hate does not seem to be the driver of these marches...remarkably.
I'm not saying either group is without grievances. Just that the movements goals were rather diffuse. And the craziest ones ends up getting the attention.
I don't believe this has much to do with abortion. Rather a lot of folks that were genuinely opposed to Trumps history of misogynistic comments. At least that's the earful I've gotten from friends / family that truly despise him. Now folks that tend to be sensitive to those type of remarks tend to lean liberal....but I've even had life-long GOP women in my family (particularly my SIL, who is extremely conservative), tell me multiple times they find him offensive and borderline repulsive (though they probably still ended up voting for him via party loyalty.)
The march and marchers are quite clearly concerned about abortion rights. But that is not all they are concerned about. This is about launching a resistance to Trump and Trumpism. What is astounding to me is the absence of hate, the renunciation of it even.
Decent point about cred; it is about reputation. That said, I don't think I have ever posted anything here that would suggest that I am not firmly behind women's equality in all respects. I admit to having criticized several things women say that they believe advance their rights, such as the manner in which they argue equal pay. I think that is a canard. Similarly, I am in favor of gun control and repeal of gun industry immunity, so is Hillary. But I have criticized Hillary's arguments about that because she was dishonest about what she said.
While I don't support Jim Crow laws, I don't see them as a step backward, but I see your argument. SOCUTS decided Plessy v. Ferguson in the late 18th century which was an affirmation of Jim Crow laws. I still see progress in the overall picture; particularly in the beginnings of economic participation.
So what point is it that a testicle or prostate is considered a viable life? I'm sure you have a point, but I can't recall the point they turn into life.
Maybe a bill forbidding male masturbation (killing the undeniable and real seed of LIFE), requiring doctors to inquire into sexual habits of and potential masturbation by male patients, tracking pay per view porn and allowing police raids where appropriate, etc. would reinforce this right to life we all care about.
I knew the underlying point of the comparison would go over someone's head. I'm surprised it took as long as it did.
There was no underlying point. It was an incredibly stupid comparison and it was being ignored.
Emotional hysteria....lol. If only we could still use shock therapy on the hysterical little women. This was started by two women on Facebook, talking together on Nov. 10.
Yes, there was lots of concern about attracting a crowd. Lol. Most marches were so crowded they couldn't even move. Defunding of Planned Parenthood is also a concern. I saw many signs about Love Trump's Hate, climate change, many children with Trump is a bully signs. TRump , tweet people with respect was popular one. Our Kids Deserve Better ( with a pic of Devos), Love is Love is Love. Left or Right, we all know Wrong. My personal favorite....Hands too Small to Build a Wall. But please, do tell what you saw on tv and why women walked.
