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Good job washed up old grandpa

ribbont said:
Is the season over yet? Are we done? Should I judge you as a ref at halftime? Or after a few games? Or should you be judged on your body of work for the season?
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No, it would be silly to judge my abilities after one half....Or a few games. 100% agree. Unfortunately my friend, we are not talking about one half with Woodson....or a few games. We are judging on the basis of...

85 games.....44 Big 10 games. 2+ seasons. Same problems exist now, that did when he took the job: No shooters, piss poor rebounding, piss poor defense, FT shooting...His substituting. His offense. Getting blown out time and time again...

This isn't one half my man....or a few games. This spans 85 games. He is not changing---and that is not good. Because what he is doing is not going to delivered what he said he came here to do.

EDIT---Oh, I forgot----"Is the seaon over yet"? Welll…………...I mean technically no. But this teams analytics are absolutely HORRID. EVen at 11-5, 3-2, this team is far, far, far from being an NCAAT team. Will need wins over Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois, MSU, even Nebraska. Possibly another win over OSU. At this rate, this team will probably need to win the BTT----or make a deep run.

Season over? No. But anymore losses like tonight, and itll be a lot closer than you think.
 
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IUfanBorden said:
Woodson is not the answer of returning IU to the roots of RMK. And why?

Because their basketball philosophies could not be further apart. Nothing MW does coaching wise, X/O wise, is remotely close to what he learned , while playing for Knight.

AS for culture----What culture is it you speak of? Please don't say, "Indiana kids...."----And look, kids don't care about the "front of the jesrsey stuff.."----They just don't.

Woodson system is not built for the college game. unless...………………..you have the talent to do so. He doesn't. Had it last year----does not this year---Nor in Year one. His substitution patterns are hideous----again, built for the NBA. Know why it works in the NBA? Well because EVERYONE does it. Name me ONE coach in CBB today, that subs in a similar fashion. I can tell you.

None. Why? Because it does not work. Not in college. Not unless you can get the other coach to agree to play his 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th man, at the same time yo do. Yeah, not gonna happen.

I like Woody. But its becoming more and more apparent he is not the answer.
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I think his sub patterns must come from NBA "load management" thinking, where you have to worry about wear and tear and incremental fatigue over a long season.

He's been asked about his substitutions, he's probably sick of being asked about it based on his answer tonight. He said this after the Auburn game: "I kind of substitute pretty much the same way every game. You can't just burn them. Bottom line, when my starters got back in the game, it was close to a tied game. The same guys that were on the floor when we started the game went the other way. that was the difference in the ballgame. You can't play them for 40 minutes. You've got to play some of your bench guys, and I believe in my bench."

That to me says he substitutes primarily to manage minutes, not based on matchups or game situation.
 
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ams66 said:
I think his sub patterns must come from NBA "load management" thinking, where you have to worry about wear and tear and incremental fatigue over a long season.

He's been asked about his substitutions, he's probably sick of being asked about it based on his answer tonight. He said this after the Auburn game: "I kind of substitute pretty much the same way every game. You can't just burn them. Bottom line, when my starters got back in the game, it was close to a tied game. The same guys that were on the floor when we started the game went the other way. that was the difference in the ballgame. You can't play them for 40 minutes. You've got to play some of your bench guys, and I believe in my bench."

That to me says he substitutes primarily to manage minutes, not based on matchups or game situation.
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Its exactly what it is. Hes not subbing for match ups, or "the hot hand". There is NO, X's and O's that go into his subbing.
 
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Woodson doesn't coach his players he lets his players decide what there going to do. He put together a roster flawed with no shooters and no ball handlers. He put Galloway who is a small forward play shooting guard who can't shoot . Then he put Mgbako at small forward when he should be a stretch four. Then there is the substitution pattern makes no sense one game Gunn doesn't play the next game he is playing 25 minutes. Or he takes out all the starters and plays the second team. Or my favorite he takes a guy who is playing well and has him set for five six minutes and wants to get him rest but then plays him the entire second half?
 
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IUfanBorden said:
Woodson is not the answer of returning IU to the roots of RMK. And why?

Because their basketball philosophies could not be further apart. Nothing MW does coaching wise, X/O wise, is remotely close to what he learned , while playing for Knight.

AS for culture----What culture is it you speak of? Please don't say, "Indiana kids...."----And look, kids don't care about the "front of the jesrsey stuff.."----They just don't.

Woodson system is not built for the college game. unless...………………..you have the talent to do so. He doesn't. Had it last year----does not this year---Nor in Year one. His substitution patterns are hideous----again, built for the NBA. Know why it works in the NBA? Well because EVERYONE does it. Name me ONE coach in CBB today, that subs in a similar fashion. I can tell you.

None. Why? Because it does not work. Not in college. Not unless you can get the other coach to agree to play his 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th man, at the same time yo do. Yeah, not gonna happen.

I like Woody. But its becoming more and more apparent he is not the answer.
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Well, I understand you opinion and respect it just have a different perspective. I don't know that Woodson is the answer and the results have not been anywhere close to what I had hoped for. The game and kids are not the same as they were in the good IU era. Woodson was an integral part of that and was close to Knight but they are definitely not the same person. Kids today don't care about fundamentals near as much they did when I was kid over even before television and social media took over the game.

My meaning of what I think the Indiana culture is first of all winning a lot, being consistently a presence on the national stage which has been spotty at best since 1993. Yes, we had a Mike Davis team run to the national championship and won a few Big Ten titles but nowhere close to the Branch or RMK days. I am truly not sure in the show me the money game we have today that I am really in awe of any coach anymore. I don't care where the players come from, but I want to see accountability, solid fundamentals and good basketball. The first two years have been spotty at best, but we have at least hit a minimum of squeaking into the tournament. We beat PU twice last year mostly due to Jalen Hood especially the game at PU. TJD definitely improved under somebodies' guidance and could have a decent NBA career after almost not being drafted.

I try to be optimistic but tonight's performance by both IU and PU sucked. Right now, we don't stand to make the tournament, but we do have 15 Big Ten games to go. We must go undefeated at home which will be tough. Even Minnesota is tied for second right now and we play them at home Friday and PU coming in the next game. If we win those two games (big if), we would be 5-2 in the Big Ten and ahead of PU and many other teams in the Big Ten. Lose one or both and the season is on a rugged slide because we go back on the road to Wisconsin where we don't win and Illinois who is still playing well even without Shannon. So right now, my best-case scenario is 5-4 but each game who knows what team is going to show up for either side. The Big Ten is pretty lame this year but we are not showing right now the ability to compete.

Bottom line you may be right about Woodson, but I will always love the man for his passion about Indiana basketball and what he did for the team in both of our senior years at IU. Coming back from back surgery with 8 games left in the Big Ten and winning the Big Ten over OSU and Clark Kellogg on March 2, 1980, was one memory that will not be erased from my IU student days.

Thanks for sharing your perspective and Go Hoosiers figure it out.
 
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Shuski said:
Well, I understand you opinion and respect it just have a different perspective. I don't know that Woodson is the answer and the results have not been anywhere close to what I had hoped for. The game and kids are not the same as they were in the good IU era. Woodson was an integral part of that and was close to Knight but they are definitely not the same person. Kids today don't care about fundamentals near as much they did when I was kid over even before television and social media took over the game.

My meaning of what I think the Indiana culture is first of all winning a lot, being consistently a presence on the national stage which has been spotty at best since 1993. Yes, we had a Mike Davis team run to the national championship and won a few Big Ten titles but nowhere close to the Branch or RMK days. I am truly not sure in the show me the money game we have today that I am really in awe of any coach anymore. I don't care where the players come from, but I want to see accountability, solid fundamentals and good basketball. The first two years have been spotty at best, but we have at least hit a minimum of squeaking into the tournament. We beat PU twice last year mostly due to Jalen Hood especially the game at PU. TJD definitely improved under somebodies' guidance and could have a decent NBA career after almost not being drafted.

I try to be optimistic but tonight's performance by both IU and PU sucked. Right now, we don't stand to make the tournament, but we do have 15 Big Ten games to go. We must go undefeated at home which will be tough. Even Minnesota is tied for second right now and we play them at home Friday and PU coming in the next game. If we win those two games (big if), we would be 5-2 in the Big Ten and ahead of PU and many other teams in the Big Ten. Lose one or both and the season is on a rugged slide because we go back on the road to Wisconsin where we don't win and Illinois who is still playing well even without Shannon. So right now, my best-case scenario is 5-4 but each game who knows what team is going to show up for either side. The Big Ten is pretty lame this year but we are not showing right now the ability to compete.

Bottom line you may be right about Woodson, but I will always love the man for his passion about Indiana basketball and what he did for the team in both of our senior years at IU. Coming back from back surgery with 8 games left in the Big Ten and winning the Big Ten over OSU and Clark Kellogg on March 2, 1980, was one memory that will not be erased from my IU student days.

Thanks for sharing your perspective and Go Hoosiers figure it out.
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Too bad others that share your fundamental view cannot express themselves with the courtesy and reasonableness that you have in this post. No strawhorse and no misstatement of facts and no accusations, I enjoyed reading your post.
 
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ams66 said:
I think his sub patterns must come from NBA "load management" thinking, where you have to worry about wear and tear and incremental fatigue over a long season.

He's been asked about his substitutions, he's probably sick of being asked about it based on his answer tonight. He said this after the Auburn game: "I kind of substitute pretty much the same way every game. You can't just burn them. Bottom line, when my starters got back in the game, it was close to a tied game. The same guys that were on the floor when we started the game went the other way. that was the difference in the ballgame. You can't play them for 40 minutes. You've got to play some of your bench guys, and I believe in my bench."

That to me says he substitutes primarily to manage minutes, not based on matchups or game situation.
Click to expand...
These are twenty year olds playing a couple games a week. I understand giving a guy a rest if he looks like he needs a rest but not mass benchings just because you had an epiphany that’s the right way to manage games. Good post.
 
IUfanBorden said:
No, it would be silly to judge my abilities after one half....Or a few games. 100% agree. Unfortunately my friend, we are not talking about one half with Woodson....or a few games. We are judging on the basis of...

85 games.....44 Big 10 games. 2+ seasons. Same problems exist now, that did when he took the job: No shooters, piss poor rebounding, piss poor defense, FT shooting...His substituting. His offense. Getting blown out time and time again...

This isn't one half my man....or a few games. This spans 85 games. He is not changing---and that is not good. Because what he is doing is not going to delivered what he said he came here to do.

EDIT---Oh, I forgot----"Is the seaon over yet"? Welll…………...I mean technically no. But this teams analytics are absolutely HORRID. EVen at 11-5, 3-2, this team is far, far, far from being an NCAAT team. Will need wins over Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois, MSU, even Nebraska. Possibly another win over OSU. At this rate, this team will probably need to win the BTT----or make a deep run.

Season over? No. But anymore losses like tonight, and itll be a lot closer than you think.
Click to expand...

So IU should fire Woody now, mid-season?
 
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bsmitty08 said:
They should be making exit plans for him for sure.
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Great. Good message to send to incoming candidates: Hey future coaches. We fired a legend mid-season after 2 1/2 years, after back to back NCAA appearances when we gave the previous flavor of the day coach 4 years with zero appearances.

Nobody would come here just like nobody worth a crap has come here except for Sampson.

Let me guess. You want Dusty May. Why would he take it knowing IU might fire him after a year or 2? And how is he any better than Miller, or Enfield, or Larranega, or Moser, or any one hit wonder who had a Cinderella team in the NCAA tournament?

I'm not happy with the team either, but firing Woody mid-season is the dumbest of all the dumbest ideas. And I am not surprised you like it.
 
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ribbont said:
Great. Good message to send to incoming candidates: Hey future coaches. We fired a legend mid-season after 2 1/2 years, after back to back NCAA appearances when we gave the previous flavor of the day coach 4 years with zero appearances.

Nobody would come here just like nobody worth a crap has come here except for Sampson.

Let me guess. You want Dusty May. Why would he take it knowing IU might fire him after a year or 2? And how is he any better than Miller, or Enfield, or Larranega, or Moser, or any one hit wonder who had a Cinderella team in the NCAA tournament?

I'm not happy with the team either, but firing Woody mid-season is the dumbest of all the dumbest ideas. And I am not surprised you like it.
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Did you read my post? You start planning for his exit. No where did I say fire him mid season. You start discussing his future and let him leave (forced) with a nice incentive and move on. It’s obvious he isn’t a long term solution here.
 
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ams66 said:
I think his sub patterns must come from NBA "load management" thinking, where you have to worry about wear and tear and incremental fatigue over a long season.

He's been asked about his substitutions, he's probably sick of being asked about it based on his answer tonight. He said this after the Auburn game: "I kind of substitute pretty much the same way every game. You can't just burn them. Bottom line, when my starters got back in the game, it was close to a tied game. The same guys that were on the floor when we started the game went the other way. that was the difference in the ballgame. You can't play them for 40 minutes. You've got to play some of your bench guys, and I believe in my bench."

That to me says he substitutes primarily to manage minutes, not based on matchups or game situation.
Click to expand...
Kind of ironic I guess, when Woody had his back injury his senior year, the game he returned, he played forty minutes, or awfully close to it.
 
IUfanBorden said:
Never said that. Just read what people post...not what you think, they think. You don't fire coaches at mid season, unless it's issues outside of W/L's. That still doesn't mean he's the right guy. Which IMO, he is not.
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Exactly, he is junking to conclusions and think we all want him fired today. Reading comprehension is hard I guess.
 
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bsmitty08 said:
Because they recognized a bad hire and got it right the next time.
Cracks me up, you defend this crap basketball
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bs... go through their progression.. none of them had what went down here... not defending the poor play from the players... you on the other hand want to blindly blame it all on the coach when there are many factors in play. Such a child like mentality.
 
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bsmitty08 said:
Because they recognized a bad hire and got it right the next time.
Cracks me up, you defend this crap basketball
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I've got a couple of Dookie friends, lawyers who attended Duke. They've both made up their minds that they can't get it done with Scheyer. That said, didn't Duke go from Bill Foster directly to K who, you know, wasn't quite living up for the first few seasons. Who knows, maybe they'd have been even more successful if they'd fired that guy at the time the fans started complaining.
 
bsmitty08 said:
You obviously aren’t
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You're the one that has the unrealistic perception, one of a child. If it does not go your way you cry and whine. I am not knowledgeable about your inadequacies in life but to spend so much time and effort to denigrate a coach after a loss has to be related to the aforemention in some way... Then you disappear during wins and good play. Just grow up... your repetitive garbage stinks!
 
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IUfanBorden said:
Never said that. Just read what people post...not what you think, they think. You don't fire coaches at mid season, unless it's issues outside of W/L's. That still doesn't mean he's the right guy. Which IMO, he is not.
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If the administration has now concluded that he’s not the right coach why would they wait?
 
IUfanBorden said:
Never said that. Just read what people post...not what you think, they think. You don't fire coaches at mid season, unless it's issues outside of W/L's. That still doesn't mean he's the right guy. Which IMO, he is not.
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So what are you all griping about? You don't want him fired now. You know he's not the guy. So, what's your point?

I know everyone has the right to gripe, but Hatchet (and others) is non-stop. My mind cannot grasp why people spend so much time worrying about things they cannot change and then feel the need to go to a message board to spread negativity and misery.

Life is too short to be like that.
 
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ribbont said:
So what are you all griping about? You don't want him fired now. You know he's not the guy. So, what's your point?

I know everyone has the right to gripe, but Hatchet (and others) is non-stop. My mind cannot grasp why people spend so much time worrying about things they cannot change and then feel the need to go to a message board to spread negativity and misery.

Life is too short to be like that.
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My mind cannot grasp why people worry so much about people worrying.
 
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asindc said:
If the administration has now concluded that he’s not the right coach why would they wait?
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Precedent. You fire a coach who's went to back to back NCAAT..is currently 11+5, 3-2...well, good luck with your next hire.
 
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