Game of Thrones... just kicked it up a notch
- Thread starter patrick593
- Start date
Were did you get that photo of C$ and I dressed for golf? I get to be Jim Carrey though. Have you seen Jeff Daniels' wife?So you're saying C-$ and Foosier?
I could see that.
What he's really saying is that he hasn't an original or funny thought in many years. By the way
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Foosier isn't dumb, he's just boring and wit disabled... C-$ is without doubt dumb.So you're saying C-$ and Foosier?
I could see that.
No, I'm actually in a great mood, it's just that, well, you're dumber than a box of fking hammers and you need to be told.
Do you know the difference between writing an adaptation vs writing original screenplays? Of course you don't because common people with average IQ's don't think in concept. They are instead impressed by shiny brass buttons. This show went from being a pure adaptation to something else, not an original as the story is already set but an almost original. Adaptations tend to have more depth because the writer isn't the main creator and is fleshing out and adding detail. The majority of creation is finished. Originals tend to be a little thinner in story and character depth, because the writer has to think more and in detail, but they also tend to move quicker. GoT, currently, is wavering towards the latter. Not completely, yet, but it's obvious the writing has suffered.
Some writers are great at one or the other, very few are great at both and I'm not sure these guys have the chops to write this on their own ability. Much of last season and all of this one are transparent and predictable as any idiot level TV show, and mostly filled with TV writing gadgets and machinations. Which is as far away as anyone can get from GoT in it's pure book form. Martin was never predictable, his characters aren't cliche'.
In TV world, someone always suddenly saves the day and the good guys win. In TV world, a person always talks about something profound just before they die. There's always closer to every story arc. American idiot audiences like closer. In Martin world, they die, and no one gets to say anything profound, no one saves the day, no one ever really wins, and there's never any closer. Just frustration of what could have been. These guys have lost sight of that and are writing proven paint by number TV techniques that only impress the clueless. Bran's trips to the past are the cheapest and weakest...
It's still early in the season, so there's a chance... we'll see I guess.
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TL;DR
Actually, I did read it.
Of course I understand the difference between original and adaptation, but don't let that stop you from frothing at the mouth like an annoying rat dog biting at my heels...
I think of GOT like The Wire... In that it's just like a novel. Can't judge each episode, just like you wouldn't say that chapter sucked. Lots of pieces to be put in place first. The payoff is always worth it.
The whole reason Benioff and Weiss created the show was to adapt the Red Wedding for television. That was their goal. Everything else is just fancy fan fiction.
It's still a very good show. I'm not nearly as down on it as you appear to be. But don't be surprised if, when it's all over, we look back at season 3 as the high water mark.
That's a good point, but the average GRRM novel is, what, about 600 pages? If I read the first 120 pages of WOW (assuming he ever writes it), and this is as far as the story's gotten at that point, it will be accurate to criticize it as bad writing. Yes, you need to set the table, and yes, moving too fast can also be bad (see every Dan Brown novel, e.g.), but plots do, after all, eventually have to move.
So what's the average length, then? 700? 800? Whatever it is, if GRRM (or any author) spends 20% of a novel on setup, he's not doing his job correctly.
Says the guy who hasn't updated the OTF murder mystery in 6 months. Talk about a setup...
GRRM has a readership of millions, people clamoring for the sequels, and the series based on his books is the number one rated cable show.
I kinda think he is doing his job correctly.
Now I am going to go put on my GRRM footie-pajamas.
Let me add, as a follow-up to both @zeke4ahs and @T.M.P., one of the problems with the show can be directly tied back to a major problem with the book series itself, and that is, in fact, GRRM's plot problem. There is no single major plot running throughout the series. Instead, there are just a bunch of subplots that are temporarily raised or lowered in importance at various points. The only book that truly had a single, tightly structured plot was the first one, and that plot ended when Ned Stark's head left his shoulders. ASOIAF is, in reality, a giant soap opera, and it makes perfect sense that the TV show is becoming a soap opera, as well.
I think this is one of the major reasons GRRM is having such a difficult time ending the story (besides him just being lazy). I don't think even he really has any idea where the story is going or where it's supposed to end up. I think he just had some vague notion of moving generally in a certain direction, but never really had a plan for how to get there. I think he kills off characters when he realizes there's a subplot that's become a loose end, but that just leads to even more problems, because you can't just ignore the consequences of someone being killed. This is a problem faced by many writers, of both books and screenplays. It's famously why Lost sucked at the end.
I think this is one of the major reasons GRRM is having such a difficult time ending the story (besides him just being lazy). I don't think even he really has any idea where the story is going or where it's supposed to end up. I think he just had some vague notion of moving generally in a certain direction, but never really had a plan for how to get there. I think he kills off characters when he realizes there's a subplot that's become a loose end, but that just leads to even more problems, because you can't just ignore the consequences of someone being killed. This is a problem faced by many writers, of both books and screenplays. It's famously why Lost sucked at the end.
That's because he doesn't make such amateur mistakes. I said if he spent all that time on setup, he'd be a bad writer. But he doesn't. In the first 10% of AGOT, he has white walkers killing people, Catelyn discovering Jon Arryn's murder, and Bran being pushed out the window. In other words, while he was introducing his readers to all the players involved, he was also already moving the action along.
It's saving grace is the characters Martin created but it's losing it's Martin like quality and so are some of the characters. Jamie and Marcella talk about her parentage, and then she dies. Cliche' TV. When all is lost, Brienne rides in to save the moment. Cliche TV. Both so obviously predictable that C-$ could've have seen it coming. Well, maybe not that obvious, but still obvious. It's basically turning into a common TV show.
Last night I kept going downstairs and smoking bowls while the show was on. "I thought you wanted to watch this?" ... "He's going to kill his father".. "Smoking again?" ... "The wolf will look up just before Jon wakes" ....American TV audiences like transparent predictability, it makes them feel smart.
It's predictable and has been since last year. When you can guess who is going to die, and how, you're not watching a GRR story, you're watching common TV. I liked Martin's unpredictability and odd paths in story and plot. It was the main reason I read the books. He didn't take the linear obvious path.
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His mistake was making the children too young. He's had a finished outline for 20 years. The book originally had a five year gap after the red wedding. When he decided to fill the five years the story expanded and then changed. Now, he has a full belly and there's no reason to hurry.
I don't know much about that, but it makes sense. On second thought, I think Book 2 has a pretty tight plot structure, too. But you can already see things start to unravel a bit in the third book, although that may have been because he originally tried to squeeze too much into one book, rather than because he was confused about where he wanted to go.
Technically, he's a very solid writer. I'm not dissing him. But when you look at the series as a whole, what's the major dramatic question? What's it all about? There is no clear answer to that. That's a flaw, and it's a flaw in both the books and the TV show.
Next week's show is going to show an oath being broken with Jamie front and center.I'm starting to get so damn confused because I'm currently listening to the 5th book during my commute and there are plot line differences between the book and the show. Oathkeeper was the name of the sword Jamie gave Brianne so I would assume she (or it) will play a major role in next week's episode in a play on the Oathbreaker thing. I have really liked the first 2 episodes and GOAT can suck it.
It won't have much to do with Brienne.
"and now it begins"
So far, the end of season 5 was the high water mark. The last 2 episodes were phenomenal TV.
Someone has to do it...
What's happening next week?
Just because some of these scenes and story lines start to reveal themselves during the show, doesn't mean they were predictable heading into it. And it doesn't make them "common TV". I predicted about a dozen fairly major events while reading the books. But I was wrong more than I was right. And I had no idea heading into this season that Dorne would eat itself...that Melisandre was actually a withered old woman who needs a necklace to appear young...that Ramsey would kill Roose...that Bran would greensee Hodor as a relatively normal kid named Willis...that the Sparrows would reveal they were possibly out to overthrow an empire. The only thing I did predict was that Melisandre would bring Jon back ala Thoros with Beric Dondarrion. So the final scene, while still compelling and very powerful, didn't shock me as much as it did many others.
So show us your mental prowess. What's going to happen in the next episode?
I predicted she would get naked and lay on top of him to bring him back to life. That she only laid hands on him and he didn't resurrect until everyone had left the room was disappointing. I didn't find that scene compelling, powerful, or shocking. Anyone who found it shocking is a moron.
Now when Dondarrion was brought back to life, I was shocked. Everyone knew Jon would be. And I think they did it about as lame as they could have done it.
Next episode: (disclaimer, I've not read one word of one book so these aren't spoilers just my thoughts).
Dany will be in the tomb of dead khal wives.
Dragons may roast some fools
Jon beheads some fools...including that little jackass boy.
The Bolton bastard begins marching on the wall as white walkers advance from the north. (Any battle will be down the line.)
Sansa may get close to the wall but won't see jon until an episode later ... If ever.
The greyjoy bitch won't rule the iron islands but will command a renegade fleet.
Jamie will kill his son and take the iron throne for himself.
The bitch from dorne will march on kings landing
Okay I'm tired of playing this game.
I would greatly appreciate it if somebody ended the bitch from dorne soon. Awful actor.
Hi guys. Been a while.
I don't like how the series butchered Dorne. Complete, total failure.
The Elder Martell in the books is extremely shrewd, and is planning to join forces w/ Daenarys as soon as her dumbass makes it across the sea.
Other than the incredible boobs of the youngest Sand Snake, the TV Dorne plot just sucks Hodor's ass.
The Elder Martell in the books is extremely shrewd, and is planning to join forces w/ Daenarys as soon as her dumbass makes it across the sea.
Other than the incredible boobs of the youngest Sand Snake, the TV Dorne plot just sucks Hodor's ass.
I agree. She didn't need acting chops for her role in Kama Sutra.
Her finest days have passed her.
Did anyone notice that Lyanna was portrayed as a little badass who could handle a horses had spirit and talked a little crap to Ned?
One it was nice to see live when Ned would tell Arya that she reminded him of her in looks and spirit.
More importantly, and why I love this show because there are so few wasted scenes and clues like this are dropped everywhere...can you see a mid 20 some Lyanna in her prime being a victim of kidnapping and rape by a pretty boy Targ without at least fighting back and f'ing up his pretty face?
No.
R+L=J is so obvious.
I think it all gets revealed this week. Probably the last scene when Bran has a vision of the tower of joy. Oathbreaker meaning Ned Stark's breaking of honor and lying.
At least that's my prediction.
One it was nice to see live when Ned would tell Arya that she reminded him of her in looks and spirit.
More importantly, and why I love this show because there are so few wasted scenes and clues like this are dropped everywhere...can you see a mid 20 some Lyanna in her prime being a victim of kidnapping and rape by a pretty boy Targ without at least fighting back and f'ing up his pretty face?
No.
R+L=J is so obvious.
I think it all gets revealed this week. Probably the last scene when Bran has a vision of the tower of joy. Oathbreaker meaning Ned Stark's breaking of honor and lying.
At least that's my prediction.
