FU/FBI/FB rev 2

[Bowlmania]

Here is a story noting that NARA has cleared 14,000 documents for use by the Obama library through the Freedom of Information Act. If Obama has the documents, why are his lawyers bothering to file FOIA requests?

As recently as June 2022, the archives notified Obama’s lawyers that it had cleared the release of about 14,000 items requested through the Freedom of Information Act.​

Why Trump is wrong to suggest Obama personally kept ‘33 million pages of documents’ - Poynter

The National Archive digitized Obama’s presidential records and sent them to a facility in College Park, Maryland.

www.poynter.org

And from that, to further your point:

The agency said about 30 million pages of unclassified records went to a National Archives facility in the Chicago area. Classified Obama presidential records are in a facility in the Washington, D.C., area.​

His argument is a red herring and complete BS, promoted by the pro-Trump media which he apparently laps up.

Bottom line - - Obama complied with the law. Trump likely didn't.

Obama didn’t keep millions of classified White House documents

Amid mounting revelations surrounding the FBI’s search of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate, a counternarrative pushed online — including by Trump himself — posits that Obama similarly kept possession of White House documents after his term of office.

apnews.com

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Berger's clearance was reinstated. Yes, he basically got off scot-free, unless you count a slap on the hand as punishment.

What was Hillary's punishment? What was Bill Clinton's punishment?

You might want to brush up on the Supreme Court rulings on this matter. One you should be familiar with - 1988 Navy vs Egan

"The President, after all, is the ‘Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States’" according to Article II of the Constitution, the court’s majority wrote. "His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security ... flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant."

Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, said that such authority gives the president the authority to "classify and declassify at will."

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

I certainly think Berger got off lightly, but he was convicted of a crime. I don't know that he ever had his clearance reinstated either, he'd have to have another job that requires it and without looking I don't know that he ever did.

The President can declassify, but there is a process because it's very complicated and many agencies are involved. Also, most Presidents, probably all but Trump, would be very careful not to abuse this authority because it can expose methods and sources to our adversaries and potential adversaries. It could get our human sources, or our own agents killed. I don't think Trump gives a flying crap about any of that, to include the lives of our sources or agents, because all he cares about is himself. One thing is certain, Trump cannot just wave his magic wand and decree that everything is declassified, and he can't issue a "standing order" that any classified information in his possession is "hereby declassified" as he claimed in one of his four or five mutually exclusive defenses of his having classified information at MAL. You'd have to be an idiot to believe that. You didn't believe it, did you?

The only reason you defend Trump is because you're 100 percent invested in him. You're essentially trapped in a cult of personality. One day you'll feel like an idiot for your defense of the indefensible things he's said and done. You should feel like an idiot now, but you're still blinded by your total devotion to him.

 

[DANC]

I certainly think Berger got off lightly, but he was convicted of a crime. I don't know that he ever had his clearance reinstated either, he'd have to have another job that requires it and without looking I don't know that he ever did.

The President can declassify, but there is a process because it's very complicated and many agencies are involved. Also, most Presidents, probably all but Trump, would be very careful not to abuse this authority because it can expose methods and sources to our adversaries and potential adversaries. It could get our human sources, or our own agents killed. I don't think Trump gives a flying crap about any of that, to include the lives of our sources or agents, because all he cares about is himself. Once thing is certain, Trump cannot just wave his magic wand and decree that everything is declassified, and he can't issue a "standing order" that any classified information in his possession is "hereby declassified" as he claimed in one of his four or five mutually exclusive defenses of his having classified information at MAL. You'd have to be an idiot to believe that. You didn't believe it, did you?

The only reason you defend Trump is because you're 100 percent invested in him. You're essentially trapped in a cult of personality. One day you'll feel like an idiot for your defense of the indefensible things he's said and done. You should feel like an idiot now, but you're still blinded by your total devotion to him.

I gave you the Supreme Court ruling that said the President the ultimate authority and can classify and declassify at will.

The fact you ignore that and continue to post shit like "The President can declassify, but there is a process because it's very complicated and many agencies are involved." tells me you are beyond reasoning about the matter.

You are so anti-Trump and so parrot the Democrat and media narratives that it's useless to engage with you any further on this.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I gave you the Supreme Court ruling that said the President the ultimate authority and can classify and declassify at will.

The fact you ignore that and continue to post shit like "The President can declassify, but there is a process because it's very complicated and many agencies are involved." tells me you are beyond reasoning about the matter.

You are so anti-Trump and so parrot the Democrat and media narratives that it's useless to engage with you any further on this.

You didn't read all of that or understand the caveats, but show us some evidence that he, as President, declassified ANYTHING he had at MAL. Records are required. Show me evidence that the process was followed, and that declassification subsequently happened at all the originating agencies or at other agencies on the distro list for any of those documents. That is also required. There is no evidence that any of that happened, because it didn't happen. Former Presidents can't even get the declassification process started. He claimed it was declassified by standing order - there is no such standing order. Then he said it was planted - obviously bogus. He tells lie after lie, and you defend him. Have you no shame?

I also noticed you throw more solid Republicans under the bus for Trump when the former National Intelligence Directors said Trump's explanations are all bogus. You're all in on Trump and you should be embarrassed by that.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Of course Garland and Wray wouldn't take the fall.

 

[Stuffshot]

There's no chance of Iran, Russia or China getting agents into Mar-A-Lago unless they can come coming up with the 250k membership fee-so no worries. I suppose some of the cleaning staff could be illegal immigrants trying to make a little extra scratch though.

I assume you're being facetious but, in case you aren't, we all should remember this episode of a Chinese woman bringing malware into Mar-a-Lago:

Chinese woman who entered Mar-a-Lago with malware federally charged

Yujing Zhang was arrested Saturday after getting past a Secret Service checkpoint. President Trump was not on the grounds at the time, but nearby golfing.

www.nbcnews.com

She was charged, convicted and deported:

Chinese businesswoman convicted of Mar-a-Lago trespassing gets deported

Yujing Zhang was then held three times longer than her prison sentence primarily due to deportation delays during the COVID-19 pandemic.

nypost.com

The national security threat by Trump's storing of classified material in an unlocked closet is not imaginary.

Trump 2024 !! Republicans, he's your boy!

 

[Stuffshot]

Impressive .. but ..

• Won North Africa in 41 against the Brits with ... Italians.
• Conquered the world playing the Angevin Dynasty, defeating the likes of Mongols, and Mamelukes, with severely overmatched armies..

Sun Tzu, von Clausewitz, Guderian, Hannibal .... simpletons.

Are you any good at Risk?

 

[Stuffshot]

Crusader Kings 3. But if you want to do a proper run in Spain, you gotta shell out for the Iberia-focused DLC, too. It's not as fun with just the base game.

The developers are all from Sweden, so the runs involving any of Ragnar's sons or other semi-mythical figures connected to them are the best experience. Other parts of the world are less fleshed out at this point.

What old game had "cow mode" with hundreds of cows saying "moo" repeatedly. Diablo maybe?

 

[dbmhoosier]

I assume you're being facetious but, in case you aren't, we all should remember this episode of a Chinese woman bringing malware into Mar-a-Lago:

Chinese woman who entered Mar-a-Lago with malware federally charged

Yujing Zhang was arrested Saturday after getting past a Secret Service checkpoint. President Trump was not on the grounds at the time, but nearby golfing.

www.nbcnews.com

She was charged, convicted and deported:

Chinese businesswoman convicted of Mar-a-Lago trespassing gets deported

Yujing Zhang was then held three times longer than her prison sentence primarily due to deportation delays during the COVID-19 pandemic.

nypost.com

The national security threat by Trump's storing of classified material in an unlocked closet is not imaginary.

Trump 2024 !! Republicans, he's your boy!

What about banging a Chinese spy? Is that ok?

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

What about banging a Chinese spy? Is that ok?

Didn't realize that person stole classified documents

 

[T.M.P.]

Are you any good at Risk?

I haven't played it since I was 12/13 but sure .. of course I am. lol ..

fwiw - Most people play it incorrectly, or stupidly, by splitting armies and building continents.

One concentrated horde is the way to go.

Build every possible army in a single country, only leave one in the ones you conquer. Best when built on a border of two continents, that way you can control both. Middle East is perfect, as is Central America but anywhere near works..

Time it and position yourself to attack and take people out when they are holding four cards and you have at least two. Knock them out of game, take their cards.

Turn in the match, mid turn, as you can only hold four cards. That makes up for losses and fuels your attack on the next target, rinse repeat, and Genghis Khan their asses .. .. let everyone else play house.

Works every time, unless you time it incorrectly you're fk'd.

If everyone plays this way the game then it turns into tic tac toe and is a waste of time.

 

[TMFT]

First, you didn't read all of that or understand the caveats, but show us some evidence that he, as President, declassified ANYTHING he had at MAL. Records are required. Show me evidence that the process was followed, and that declassification subsequently happened at all the originating agencies or at other agencies on the distro list for any of those documents. That is also required. There is no evidence that any of that happened, because it didn't happen. Former Presidents can't even get the declassification process started. He claimed it was declassified by standing order - there is no such standing order. Then he said it was planted - obviously bogus. He tells lie after lie, and you defend him. Have you no shame?

I also noticed you throw more solid Republicans under the bus for Trump when the former National Intelligence Directors said Trump's explanations are all bogus. You're all in on Trump and you should be embarrassed by that.

I’d love for Biden to say he re-classified everything Trump declassified the moment he took office by willing it to be so.

Then Trump’s team would complain that it’s unfair because how would anyone know the documents had become classified, without a shred of irony.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I’d love for Biden to say he re-classified everything Trump declassified the moment he took office by willing it to be so.

Then Trump’s team would complain that it’s unfair because how would anyone know the documents had become classified, without a shred of irony.

There's one big difference between Hillary and Trump on this point:

Hillary: "We did the best we could, and if we missed a few things, I'm sorry, but what does it matter, now?" Arrogant, yes. Irresponsible, yes. Criminal, I don't know, maybe.

Trump: "They weren't there, but if they were, I retrospectively declassified them, and if I didn't, the FBI planted them." Arrogant, yes. Irresponsible, yes. Criminal, I don't know, maybe. But also epic-level beyond all insanity just plain f*cking stupid.

The main difference between the Hillary hypocrites and the Trump hypocrites is one thing and one thing only: The Trump hypocrites are required by the logic of the argument to be just at-the-core, beyond all reasonable understanding, base-level stupid.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Mar-A-Lago is hardly a secure location. In fact, even during Trump's presidency, two unauthorized Chinese nationals made it into the building, with one passing a Secret Service checkpoint by claiming she was a relative of a club member.

Mar-A-Lago is not just Trump's residence. It's a club and resort with overnight accommodations. It's a venue for events attended by hundreds of people. It's also a place of employment for many workers ranging from janitors to groundskeepers to food services. Confidential records would probably be safer in your house.

The room where the boxes were stored was so vulnerable that FBI agents, in June, requested that a padlock be installed. Then, in typical Trump fashion, he whined about the FBI breaking the lock when they returned with a warrant in early August.

There's much more to learn. Trump's representatives (at the end of his presidency) for National Archives matters included Mark Meadows and Pat Cipollone. It's likely one or both of these guys will be key witnesses. Trump's reps will also be a in position to clear up any doubt about intent, which is likely an important difference between the Trump and Clinton matters. With respect to Trump, the Justice Department actively sought the return of classified material, putting Trump on notice that he might be in violation of the law. When the feds didn’t get it back, they used a search warrant to retrieve it. It seems probable that Trump, or someone on his team, knowingly withheld confidential records after being asked to return them. That's much different than carelessness.

It was locked up at a location they would have to physically go to as opposed to on the internet where they can hack in from Beijing or Moscow.

Hillary was most likely worse than Trump and equal to at best. I know that really sucks to deal with when you want to hang Trump out to dry but you spent 2 years white washing the former.

Hillary should have been punished. Since she was not, Trump should not be either.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

It was locked up at a location they would have to physically go to as opposed to on the internet where they can hack in from Beijing or Moscow.

Hillary was most likely worse than Trump and equal to at best. I know that really sucks to deal with when you want to hang Trump out to dry but you spent 2 years white washing the former.

Hillary should have been punished. Since she was not, Trump should not be either.

Hilary complied when confronted about it, Trump lied saying he gave all of the documents back.

You really are bad at yabbuts.

 

[DANC]

Hilary complied when confronted about it, Trump lied saying he gave all of the documents back.

You really are bad at yabbuts.

Complied? By smashing blackberries?

Use what little brains you have.

 

[IUINSB]

It was locked up at a location they would have to physically go to as opposed to on the internet where they can hack in from Beijing or Moscow.

Hillary was most likely worse than Trump and equal to at best. I know that really sucks to deal with when you want to hang Trump out to dry but you spent 2 years white washing the former.

Hillary should have been punished. Since she was not, Trump should not be either.

They are both bad. Make them share a cell. Yeah, yeah, cruel and unusual. So what, they deserve each other.

 

[DANC]

They are both bad. Make them share a cell. Yeah, yeah, cruel and unusual. So what, they deserve each other.

Well, Hillary did say Trump wanted to date her.

When she was younger, Hillary cleaned up pretty well, I thought. Hillary doesn't bother me as much as she does many conservatives. I think she would have been a good politician on her own - she didn't need Bill to do that. She actually seems moderate to me, but she's so damn corrupt, I could never vote for her.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Hilary complied when confronted about it, Trump lied saying he gave all of the documents back.

You really are bad at yabbuts.

One person can’t really be this much of a hack. Your presence is deleterious and dilutive.

FBI report: Platte River Network employee used BleachBit to delete old Clinton e-mails

The FBI released documents on Friday from its investigation into whether former secretary of state Hillary Clinton improperly stored or transmitted classified e-mail.

www.denverpost.com

I’ll break it down for you Grover. On March 2 the NYT article was published. Then:

“Sometime between March 25 and 31, 2015, the Platte River employee had an “Oh expletive moment” that the files weren’t deleted. He told the FBI that he then “deleted the Clinton archive mailbox from the PRN server and used BleachBit to delete the exported .PST files he had created on the server system containing Clinton’s e-mails,” according to the FBI report.”

 

[Marvin the Martian]

One person can’t really be this much of a hack. Your presence is deleterious and dilutive.

FBI report: Platte River Network employee used BleachBit to delete old Clinton e-mails

The FBI released documents on Friday from its investigation into whether former secretary of state Hillary Clinton improperly stored or transmitted classified e-mail.

www.denverpost.com

I’ll break it down for you Grover. On March 2 the NYT article was published. Then:

“Sometime between March 25 and 31, 2015, the Platte River employee had an “Oh expletive moment” that the files weren’t deleted. He told the FBI that he then “deleted the Clinton archive mailbox from the PRN server and used BleachBit to delete the exported .PST files he had created on the server system containing Clinton’s e-mails,” according to the FBI report.”

I will defend Trump and Clinton. On Clinton, I don't know if there is proof she ordered those files destroyed. There are policies on how long to hang onto files. It is possible the employee should have already deleted those files per policy, panicked, and deleted them. We don't know (that I am aware). Believe me, I have seen those "what the heck is that file still doing here, it was supposed to be wiped months ago" moments. I have sat into meetings with more than a few lawyers who have assured me nothing good has ever come from holding onto files past their expunge date. IF, and it is an IF, this guy was supposed to have deleted that pst by a certain date and didn't, let me say I have seen others in that predicament, and coming to me to explain a file was held past expiration was seldom their first choice. Delete it and hope no one notices is. Of course the FBI can find that (so can I since I track deletions).

It is also possible Clinton told him "hey, delete that NOW before the FBI gets there". I just haven't seen that introduced as a fact. If she did, no doubt in my mind she should have been charged with obstruction.

Just to mention it, I have seen people suggest Trump stole his files. I don't think Trump stole the files he had, I suspect because he refused anyone to pack early because he was afraid it would be seen as a concession, his move was VERY hectic. Many/most/all the files we are talking about were accidental grabs. The issue with Trump is what he has done after becoming aware of the accident.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Hilary complied when confronted about it, Trump lied saying he gave all of the documents back.

You really are bad at yabbuts.

Yes, because bleach bit and nearly 2 years of hem hawing around was totally complying when confronted.

 

[IUCrazy2]

They are both bad. Make them share a cell. Yeah, yeah, cruel and unusual. So what, they deserve each other.

Deal. All I want is equal treatment.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I will defend Trump and Clinton. On Clinton, I don't know if there is proof she ordered those files destroyed. There are policies on how long to hang onto files. It is possible the employee should have already deleted those files per policy, panicked, and deleted them. We don't know (that I am aware). Believe me, I have seen those "what the heck is that file still doing here, it was supposed to be wiped months ago" moments. I have sat into meetings with more than a few lawyers who have assured me nothing good has ever come from holding onto files past their expunge date. IF, and it is an IF, this guy was supposed to have deleted that pst by a certain date and didn't, let me say I have seen others in that predicament, and coming to me to explain a file was held past expiration was seldom their first choice. Delete it and hope no one notices is. Of course the FBI can find that (so can I since I track deletions).

It is also possible Clinton told him "hey, delete that NOW before the FBI gets there". I just haven't seen that introduced as a fact. If she did, no doubt in my mind she should have been charged with obstruction.

Just to mention it, I have seen people suggest Trump stole his files. I don't think Trump stole the files he had, I suspect because he refused anyone to pack early because he was afraid it would be seen as a concession, his move was VERY hectic. Many/most/all the files we are talking about were accidental grabs. The issue with Trump is what he has done after becoming aware of the accident.

100% agree. I’m reacting to Grover’s ridiculous claim that Big Hilary acted in good faith - and didn’t seek to cover their ass - after the server was known. Patently ludicrous.

 

[outside shooter]

Go ahead, lock her up. Then lock him up.

But what he did was a felony, because he pushed to make it a felony.