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FU/FBI/FB rev 2

One point to make, he did not claim to declassify in January, nor in June when served a subpoena. One would think he wouldn't wait until the 3rd FBI visit to pull out the "I declassified everything" line.
Ooooooh..... so the 3rd FBI 'visit' was to get the documents he was going to sell to the Russians! 🤣

Maybe he just got tired of being jacked around.

Another point you don't bring up - if the documents were so crucial to the US, why did Garland wait to so long to retrieve them?
 
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There is no evidence he declassified any of these. There is a process and a record required for declassification. Besides, it’s one of four or five ridiculously stupid and conflicting explanations provided by Trump. That’s the extent of your “evidence.” You apparently can’t see it, but Trump is a bigger liar than Bill Clinton, and he was a serial liar.

We don’t need to know what the documents contain - they’re classified. That’s the frickin’ point.

Claiming “mean tweets” as if it’s his only flaw is stupid. Super stupid.
There seem to be multiple legal people disagreeing with your "proper process" claims. I will agree though, YOU probably do have a process (Although you don't actually have the power to begin with) But the CIC IS the arbiter of the process.
Did I over look your term as Pres? I thought you just drove a boat.
 
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There seem to be multiple legal people disagreeing with your "proper process" claims. I will agree though, YOU probably do have a process (Although you don't actually have the power to begin with) But the CIC IS the arbiter of the process.
Did I over look your term as Pres? I thought you just drove a boat.
If I was mean, I'd say it was more like a dinghy.

But I have more respect for his service than he has of others.
 
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Ooooooh..... so the 3rd FBI 'visit' was to get the documents he was going to sell to the Russians! 🤣

Maybe he just got tired of being jacked around.

Another point you don't bring up - if the documents were so crucial to the US, why did Garland wait to so long to retrieve them?

Your point doesn't matter, he had files illegally. I don't want him charged, but I want him to follow the damn law. I have said several times I do not want him charged, I just want him to give up what he shouldn't have.
 
Sentence 1 - non-response because you have no argument

Sentence 2 - there have been no significant changes, so your argument I don't know the requirements is false. You got called on it and now you try to deflect.

Sentence 3 - non-response because you have no argument

Sentence 4 - non-response because you have no argument
That’s really a poor response. When you spout nonsense, it’s perfectly responsive for me to call it nonsense, and I did.
 
If I was mean, I'd say it was more like a dinghy.

But I have more respect for his service than he has of others.
AND, just for the record. Nothing I ever say or think of his posting is mean to diminish my respect for his service. Being wrong, doesn't mean I don't respect the sacrifice.
 
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Your point doesn't matter, he had files illegally. I don't want him charged, but I want him to follow the damn law. I have said several times I do not want him charged, I just want him to give up what he shouldn't have.
Well he doesn't have them anymore. You should be happy.

I don't give a damn whether he has them or not. But you know damn well the DOJ will charge him with something - anything - to knock him out of the race.

This is a political witch hunt and you and Aloha should be outraged at the forced invasion of an ex-President's home. If the DOJ wanted the documents, they could have issued a subpoena. This is all about trying to keep Trump from running again and it's obvious to any thinking person.
 
Well he doesn't have them anymore. You should be happy.

I don't give a damn whether he has them or not. But you know damn well the DOJ will charge him with something - anything - to knock him out of the race.

This is a political witch hunt and you and Aloha should be outraged at the forced invasion of an ex-President's home. If the DOJ wanted the documents, they could have issued a subpoena. This is all about trying to keep Trump from running again and it's obvious to any thinking person.
How do you know all of these things?

Did he knowingly keep sensitive national security information at MAL?

Did anyone else have access to them, whether by normal or nefarious means?

Did he share that information with anyone?

Did he lie to the FBI about what was being stored?

Did he hide any information within MAL?

I don’t presume to know the answers to these questions but I don’t presume you do either. And until we learn the truth, you’d do well to not be so certain about what this is or isn’t. Unless you don’t actually care about the truth, I’m which case Trump was right about being able to shoot someone on 5th Ave and the Republic has been lost to a cult of personality.
 
Obama trucked millions of documents to Chicago and promised to work with the National Archives to digitize them - 6 years ago. Where is your outrage about those records being outside the National Archives?
I didn't miss the bullshit while you were gone on "vacation."

From the NARA website:

August 12, 2022, statement


The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.
 
Well he doesn't have them anymore. You should be happy.

I don't give a damn whether he has them or not. But you know damn well the DOJ will charge him with something - anything - to knock him out of the race.

This is a political witch hunt and you and Aloha should be outraged at the forced invasion of an ex-President's home. If the DOJ wanted the documents, they could have issued a subpoena. This is all about trying to keep Trump from running again and it's obvious to any thinking person.
They issued a freaking subpoenas in June. They also got a letter from his attorney stating ALL classified info had been turned over. So they were lied to. How long should they put up being lied to?
 
I didn't miss the bullshit while you were gone on "vacation."

From the NARA website:

August 12, 2022, statement


The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.
So they aren't at the National Archives.

Thanks for that verification.

When will they be able to be digitized and accessed, as Obama said they would 6 years ago.

What about Bill's documents found in his sock drawer? Does NARA maintain those, too?
 
They issued a freaking subpoenas in June. They also got a letter from his attorney stating ALL classified info had been turned over. So they were lied to. How long should they put up being lied to?
And he complied with the "freaking subpoena" on June 3.

"(CNN)The FBI search at Mar-a-Lago this week came months after federal investigators served an earlier grand jury subpoena and took away sensitive national security documents from former President Donald Trump's property during a June meeting, people familiar with the matter tell CNN."

That's also when Trump put a lock on the door where the other documents were stored, as directed.


You have been lied to or don't understand the timeline. Either way, Trump was cooperating with NARA. If they wanted the rest of the documents, they could have issued a subpoena.
 
So they aren't at the National Archives.

Thanks for that verification.

When will they be able to be digitized and accessed, as Obama said they would 6 years ago.

What about Bill's documents found in his sock drawer? Does NARA maintain those, too?
No. You wrote “Obama trucked millions of documents to Chicago.” That’s a bald-faced lie. Unlike Trump, he had no custody or control of presidential records, including classified documents, after he left office.

Stop with the habitual lying. You consistently litter this board with your bullshit.
 
There's no evidence he didn't declassify them. You know so much - what document does he file with..... himself. He IS the Executive Branch.

You follow a process. He doesn't. Read the article I linked.

You're boring me with your repetition of the Democrat/media narrative. Your faux outrage at Trump for having any classified documents is laughable when I've given you instances of past Presidents who have done the same thing. Not to mention Sandy Berger and Hillary Clinton who got off scot-free when discovered with classified documents.
You’ve provided no evidence of other Presidents doing anything close to what Trump has done with mishandling classified information this way.

Trump is NOT the Executive branch. He’s the CEO. When a document is declassified, there is a requirement to declassify the appropriate associated information at all the originating agencies as well. It’s not done by the President waving his magic wand of declassification. Don’t be stupid about this.

You know Berger was convicted, paid a fine, was on probation for two years, did 100 hours of community service, lost his clearance and resigned from the bar. That’s scot-free?
 
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As much as I despise HRC and couldn’t, and didn’t vote for her, yes I think she cares more for the country than Trump. So does Biden. Of course I don’t agree wit much of what Biden has done, I don’t doubt his patriotism. Trump is clearly not a patriot IMO, he’s just duped some to believe he is. Trump cares about himself and just about everyone else can go to hell as far as he’s concerned.
Hillary is 100% exactly what you describe Trump as . I have said many times don't like the man but I will take his policies . Covid was no accident.
 
They issued a freaking subpoenas in June. They also got a letter from his attorney stating ALL classified info had been turned over. So they were lied to. How long should they put up being lied to?
To be glib, however long Hillary had.

I agree with Aloha he shouldn't have had them. I also believe that his "punishment" should be EXACTLY what happened to Hillary if not less because her crime was more egregious. So basically he should be told "Bad Trump" and be left to do whatever he wants. That would include running for office (which Hillary was allowed to do) even if I hope he doesn't.

That would be the consistent position now. I
 
To be glib, however long Hillary had.

I agree with Aloha he shouldn't have had them. I also believe that his "punishment" should be EXACTLY what happened to Hillary if not less because her crime was more egregious. So basically he should be told "Bad Trump" and be left to do whatever he wants. That would include running for office (which Hillary was allowed to do) even if I hope he doesn't.

That would be the consistent position now. I
How would you know which was worse? Wouldn't that depend on the material? If one had the British battle plans for the war of 1812 and the other had the names of every American agent in Russia, China, and Iran, wouldn't the latter be "worse"?

I've said several times he shouldn't be charged, and minus being charged and convicted, he will be able to run in 2024.

Somewhere there is a thread about the FBI and 2020. Amazing the same people who accuse the FBI of plaing politics in 2020 ignore Comey's letter in 2016. I've linked the thread before, there was a whole lot of "clearly the FBI has something very damning or he wouldn't have sent the letter". Of course the FBI had nothing damning, they hadn't even looked at the computer yet. Had he included that in the letter, the point that they had no idea if it was something new or not, Clinton might have held on in 2016.

Not that she deserved to win. She had screwed up but other Democrats didn't listen to me in the primaries (believe me, I didn't take supporting a populist like Bernie lightly, he just was better than Clinton and O'Malley turned out to suck as a candidate).
 
How would you know which was worse? Wouldn't that depend on the material? If one had the British battle plans for the war of 1812 and the other had the names of every American agent in Russia, China, and Iran, wouldn't the latter be "worse"?

I've said several times he shouldn't be charged, and minus being charged and convicted, he will be able to run in 2024.

Somewhere there is a thread about the FBI and 2020. Amazing the same people who accuse the FBI of plaing politics in 2020 ignore Comey's letter in 2016. I've linked the thread before, there was a whole lot of "clearly the FBI has something very damning or he wouldn't have sent the letter". Of course the FBI had nothing damning, they hadn't even looked at the computer yet. Had he included that in the letter, the point that they had no idea if it was something new or not, Clinton might have held on in 2016.

Not that she deserved to win. She had screwed up but other Democrats didn't listen to me in the primaries (believe me, I didn't take supporting a populist like Bernie lightly, he just was better than Clinton and O'Malley turned out to suck as a candidate).
She had the highest classified information that one could possibly have and she had thousands of documents. Based on that, she was worse by volume alone. He couldn't have anything higher classified than her because she had items that were of the highest classification. At worst he could only meet what she had done.

Furthermore, hers were on a hackable server which is far more susceptible and open to theft than the ones stored at a physically secure location. China would have to physically go to Mar-a-Lago to get Trump's documents. All they had to do with Hillary is hack in...and they have been able to hack government systems, Hillary's server would have been child's play.
 
Well he doesn't have them anymore. You should be happy.

I don't give a damn whether he has them or not. But you know damn well the DOJ will charge him with something - anything - to knock him out of the race.

This is a political witch hunt and you and Aloha should be outraged at the forced invasion of an ex-President's home. If the DOJ wanted the documents, they could have issued a subpoena. This is all about trying to keep Trump from running again and it's obvious to any thinking person.
I keep telling you guys, they WANT Trump to run.

This isn’t about knocking him OUT, it’s about making sure he stays IN.

That’s why there won’t be any charges.
 
No. You wrote “Obama trucked millions of documents to Chicago.” That’s a bald-faced lie. Unlike Trump, he had no custody or control of presidential records, including classified documents, after he left office.

Stop with the habitual lying. You consistently litter this board with your bullshit.
So why were they sent to Chicago? Because that's where Obama sent them.

Of course he didn't rent the U-Haul himself.

Thanks again for verifying Obama had the records sent outside the National Archives.
 
I keep telling you guys, they WANT Trump to run.

This isn’t about knocking him OUT, it’s about making sure he stays IN.

That’s why there won’t be any charges.
They're scared to death he'll win because the Dims have no one they will run against him that isn't a raving loon - the Dim Party leaders know this. They don't want him to run.

The Dim crazies do hope he runs, because they're delusional.
 
stored at a physically secure location. China would have to physically go to Mar-a-Lago to get Trump's documents.
Mar-A-Lago is hardly a secure location. In fact, even during Trump's presidency, two unauthorized Chinese nationals made it into the building, with one passing a Secret Service checkpoint by claiming she was a relative of a club member.

Mar-A-Lago is not just Trump's residence. It's a club and resort with overnight accommodations. It's a venue for events attended by hundreds of people. It's also a place of employment for many workers ranging from janitors to groundskeepers to food services. Confidential records would probably be safer in your house.

The room where the boxes were stored was so vulnerable that FBI agents, in June, requested that a padlock be installed. Then, in typical Trump fashion, he whined about the FBI breaking the lock when they returned with a warrant in early August.

There's much more to learn. Trump's representatives (at the end of his presidency) for National Archives matters included Mark Meadows and Pat Cipollone. It's likely one or both of these guys will be key witnesses. Trump's reps will also be a in position to clear up any doubt about intent, which is likely an important difference between the Trump and Clinton matters. With respect to Trump, the Justice Department actively sought the return of classified material, putting Trump on notice that he might be in violation of the law. When the feds didn’t get it back, they used a search warrant to retrieve it. It seems probable that Trump, or someone on his team, knowingly withheld confidential records after being asked to return them. That's much different than carelessness.
 
They're scared to death he'll win because the Dims have no one they will run against him that isn't a raving loon - the Dim Party leaders know this. They don't want him to run.

The Dim crazies do hope he runs, because they're delusional.

So, raving loon vs. lying buffoon. I can hardly wait for the rematch.
 
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You’ve provided no evidence of other Presidents doing anything close to what Trump has done with mishandling classified information this way.

Trump is NOT the Executive branch. He’s the CEO. When a document is declassified, there is a requirement to declassify the appropriate associated information at all the originating agencies as well. It’s not done by the President waving his magic wand of declassification. Don’t be stupid about this.

You know Berger was convicted, paid a fine, was on probation for two years, did 100 hours of community service, lost his clearance and resigned from the bar. That’s scot-free?
Berger's clearance was reinstated. Yes, he basically got off scot-free, unless you count a slap on the hand as punishment.

What was Hillary's punishment? What was Bill Clinton's punishment?

You might want to brush up on the Supreme Court rulings on this matter. One you should be familiar with - 1988 Navy vs Egan

"The President, after all, is the ‘Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States’" according to Article II of the Constitution, the court’s majority wrote. "His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security ... flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant."

Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, said that such authority gives the president the authority to "classify and declassify at will."

 
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So, raving loon vs. lying buffoon. I can hardly wait for the rematch.
Well, look at the results of the last election and the situation the US is in now and make your choice.
 
How would you know which was worse? Wouldn't that depend on the material? If one had the British battle plans for the war of 1812 and the other had the names of every American agent in Russia, China, and Iran, wouldn't the latter be "worse"?

I've said several times he shouldn't be charged, and minus being charged and convicted, he will be able to run in 2024.

Somewhere there is a thread about the FBI and 2020. Amazing the same people who accuse the FBI of plaing politics in 2020 ignore Comey's letter in 2016. I've linked the thread before, there was a whole lot of "clearly the FBI has something very damning or he wouldn't have sent the letter". Of course the FBI had nothing damning, they hadn't even looked at the computer yet. Had he included that in the letter, the point that they had no idea if it was something new or not, Clinton might have held on in 2016.

Not that she deserved to win. She had screwed up but other Democrats didn't listen to me in the primaries (believe me, I didn't take supporting a populist like Bernie lightly, he just was better than Clinton and O'Malley turned out to suck as a candidate).
Waiting on your apology for saying the records taken recently were already subpoena'd.
 
Thanks again for verifying Obama had the records sent outside the National Archives
"Outside the National Archives?"

Once again, from NARA's (National Archives and Records Administration) website:

1) "NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA."

2) "Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area."

Serious question. What's wrong with you?
 
"Outside the National Archives?"

Once again, from NARA's (National Archives and Records Administration) website:

1) "NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA."

2) "Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area."

Serious question. What's wrong with you?
Why did they move them to Chicago? No NARA facilities in DC? lmao

Of course they're covering for Obama. NARA is the one who cried to the FBI about Tump. No intelligence agency was worried about what Trump had.

This is an administrative issue that you dupes are latching onto yet again to try to take Trump down. You've been doing this for 6 years and have nothing. It's pathetic you still cling to this fantasy.
 
"Outside the National Archives?"

Once again, from NARA's (National Archives and Records Administration) website:

1) "NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA."

2) "Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area."

Serious question. What's wrong with you?

NARA is the swamp. Trump was just saving the documents from swamp thing :)
 
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I didn't miss the bullshit while you were gone on "vacation."

From the NARA website:

August 12, 2022, statement


The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.
He honest to God stored classified documents in an old furniture store. Yet you're worried about Trump having some documents, most if not all declassified, stored in one of the most secure buildings in the world with 24/7 secret service protection. Lol.

 
Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, said that such authority gives the president the authority to "classify and declassify at will."
But there's a process that must be followed. And there must be a notation of the new status on each and every document. And a president can't simply say: "Poof. I hereby declassify these documents." And there was no standing order for declassification. "Nothing approaching an order that foolish was ever given," according to retired General John Kelly, who was joined by 17 other former national security and intelligence officials under Trump in denying that there was a "standing order" for declassification. "I can't imagine anyone that worked at the White House after me that would have simply shrugged their shoulders and allowed that order to go forward without dying in the ditch trying to stop it," added Kelly.

Stop the bullshit.
 
He honest to God stored classified documents in an old furniture store. Yet you're worried about Trump having some documents, most if not all declassified, stored in one of the most secure buildings in the world with 24/7 secret service protection. Lol.

For the third time, the storage and maintenance of Obama's presidential records are exclusively within the control of the National Archives and Records Administration.

With respect to Trump, the affidavit in support of the warrant reflects that there were 184 classified documents, including 25 that had a "top secret" designation. The information for some was gleaned from "clandestine human sources."

And this was what the Justice Department had before the August search .

In what alternate universe are you living?
 
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But there's a process that must be followed. And there must be a notation of the new status on each and every document. And a president can't simply say: "Poof. I hereby declassify these documents." And there was no standing order for declassification. "Nothing approaching an order that foolish was ever given," according to retired General John Kelly, who was joined by 17 other former national security and intelligence officials under Trump in denying that there was a "standing order" for declassification. "I can't imagine anyone that worked at the White House after me that would have simply shrugged their shoulders and allowed that order to go forward without dying in the ditch trying to stop it," added Kelly.

Stop the bullshit.
You’re a language manipulator!
 
For the third time, the storage and maintenance of Obama's presidential records are exclusively within the control of the National Archives and Records Administration.

With respect to Trump, the affidavit in support of the warrant reflects that there were 184 classified documents, including 25 that had a "top secret" designation. The information for some was gleaned from "clandestine human sources."

And this was what the Justice Department had before the August search .

In what alternate universe are you living?

Here is a story noting that NARA has cleared 14,000 documents for use by the Obama library through the Freedom of Information Act. If Obama has the documents, why are his lawyers bothering to file FOIA requests?

As recently as June 2022, the archives notified Obama’s lawyers that it had cleared the release of about 14,000 items requested through the Freedom of Information Act.​


And from that, to further your point:

The agency said about 30 million pages of unclassified records went to a National Archives facility in the Chicago area. Classified Obama presidential records are in a facility in the Washington, D.C., area.​
 
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But there's a process that must be followed. And there must be a notation of the new status on each and every document. And a president can't simply say: "Poof. I hereby declassify these documents." And there was no standing order for declassification. "Nothing approaching an order that foolish was ever given," according to retired General John Kelly, who was joined by 17 other former national security and intelligence officials under Trump in denying that there was a "standing order" for declassification. "I can't imagine anyone that worked at the White House after me that would have simply shrugged their shoulders and allowed that order to go forward without dying in the ditch trying to stop it," added Kelly.

Stop the bullshit.
So you're using Kelly's opinion as legal authority? LMAO Are those the same intelligence 'experts' who said the Hunter laptop was Russian disinformation?

It's too bad you didn't read to the end.

The statement is accurate but needs clarification and additional information, so we rate it Mostly True.

Share The Facts

James Risch
U.S. Senator, R-Idaho
tom-mostlytrue.jpg
politifact_logo.png

"The minute the president speaks about it to someone, he has the ability to declassify anything at any time without any process."
remarks to reporters – Monday, May 15, 2017

Keep tilting at windmills, dupe.
 
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So you're using Kelly's opinion as legal authority? LMAO Are those the same intelligence 'experts' who said the Hunter laptop was Russian disinformation?

It's too bad you didn't read to the end.

The statement is accurate but needs clarification and additional information, so we rate it Mostly True.

Share The Facts

James Risch
U.S. Senator, R-Idaho
iu

politifact_logo.png

"The minute the president speaks about it to someone, he has the ability to declassify anything at any time without any process."
remarks to reporters – Monday, May 15, 2017

Keep tilting at windmills, dupe.
fify.

Yet no one has come forward saying that Trump declassified anything.

Quite convenient to claim you declassified it as soon as you got caught with it ;)
 
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