First UK. Then France. Now Germany. Canada on the brink.

[TyWebbIU]

Governments around the Western world are dropping like flies.

UK’s Tories faced the largest defeat in their history a few months ago.

France had an election in July that had to rely on a very fractious minority coalition to form a government under PM Michel Barnier. It lost a no confidence vote a couple weeks ago to become the first government ousted by Parliament since 1962. So it lasted about 5 months.

Now Olaf Scholz has also lost a no confidence vote in the Bundestag, setting up elections in a couple months.

Rumors are flying that Justin Trudeau is going to resign as Canada’s PM imminently.

Oh, and Donald Trump will be taking the oath of office here in about a month…assuming he isn’t tripped up by Section 3 of the 14th Amendment disqualifying former government officials who have engaged in insurrection from holding public office.

Whew boy.

And this is in addition to the Assad regime falling in Damascus, Israel wiping out Hamas and Hezbollah and hitting targets in Iran, South Korea declaring martial law, a war in Ukraine that seems likely to either lead to territorial gains for Russia or escalation beyond the current theater. Anything else?

I see a lot of people cheering all this on social media. “Down with globalism!” and all that vapid palaver.

I myself am a tad bit freaked out about so much political instability and chaos in the Western world happening in such quick succession. Maybe it’ll all come to naught. Maybe it will lead to something better.

But all we know is that a lot things are in motion.

It’s been apparent for a long time. The world is a powder keg waiting to erupt. Hopefully Trump can do some good.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

CoH, you hit on something which rang my bell when you wrote, Seems like we don’t vote for candidates any longer, we vote for a package created by media, consultants, and influencers.

Remember the day when a self-serving political organizer appeared at a party ward chairman's meeting suggesting we direct the efforts of our precinct committee persons toward raising campaign money rather than the grassroots politics of canvassing, registering, and getting the vote out.

Slowly but surely the importance of people participating in grassroots politics shifted from the We the People to the packaged candidates and money described by CoH above.

The growth in representation in elected bodies of non-'mainstream' Party participants is due largely to continuing work by Tea Party, and TP-derived groups focusing on gaining precinct and county committee seats, who were completely responsible for the seating and election of Indiana Lt. Governor Beckwith.
Beckwith was NOT the Party machine's choice. One of his key roles will be to make sure the machine's Governor remembers the nominating convention.
This strategy worked to retire Dick Lugar.
It still works.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

It'

It's a crazy, convoluted wiki page. Sounds like he's being accused of being a far right extremist, yet he adopted the name given to him by actual far right extremists who were accusing him of being an "Jewish Agent".

Shlomo Finkelstein (Online-Aktivist) – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

It’s been apparent for a long time. The world is a powder keg waiting to erupt. Hopefully Trump can do some good.

It's always been a powder keg. I actually think most developed countries are less interested in conflict than they have ever been. There is no desire to join more wars by those countries. It's the "up and comers" and religious fanaticals that are causing conflict.

 

[TyWebbIU]

It's always been a powder keg. I actually think most developed countries are less interested in conflict than they have ever been. There is no desire to join more wars by those countries. It's the "up and comers" and religious fanaticals that are causing conflict.

Much worse today.

 

[BradStevens]

CoH, you hit on something which rang my bell when you wrote, Seems like we don’t vote for candidates any longer, we vote for a package created by media, consultants, and influencers.

Remember the day when a self-serving political organizer appeared at a party ward chairman's meeting suggesting we direct the efforts of our precinct committee persons toward raising campaign money rather than the grassroots politics of canvassing, registering, and getting the vote out.

Slowly but surely the importance of people participating in grassroots politics shifted from the We the People to the packaged candidates and money described by CoH above.

I think we have to assume the reason for the shift is because the political operatives figured out it works better--i.e. it's more effective to getting their candidate elected.

I think that if that's true (and I think it is), you have to start questioning the assumptions behind democracy.

 

[BCCHoosier]

It’s been apparent for a long time. The world is a powder keg waiting to erupt. Hopefully Trump can do some good.

I think Trump is the only person alive that can save us. Perhaps he was sent by God?

 

[TyWebbIU]

I think Trump is the only person alive that can save us. Perhaps he was sent by God?

Are you saying you don’t believe in God? I’ll pray for your soul.

 

[BCCHoosier]

Are you saying you don’t believe in God? I’ll pray for your soul.

Thanks Ty. While you're at it put one in for the Hoosiers on Friday night too.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Thanks Ty. While you're at it put one in for the Hoosiers on Friday night too.

“Make it a good one, Strap.”

Coach Norman Dale

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Much worse today.

The times before WWI and WWII were much worse. It’s not close.

 

[TyWebbIU]

Thanks Ty. While you're at it put one in for the Hoosiers on Friday night too.

Already have.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I think Trump is the only person alive that can save us. Perhaps he was sent by God?

I doubt he was sent by God . . . or by Satan. If it was certain he was sent by one or the other and I had to bet, I’m leaning one way. Think MAGA hats could be Sign of the Beast? 😉

 

[hoot1]

The growth in representation in elected bodies of non-'mainstream' Party participants is due largely to continuing work by Tea Party, and TP-derived groups focusing on gaining precinct and county committee seats, who were completely responsible for the seating and election of Indiana Lt. Governor Beckwith.
Beckwith was NOT the Party machine's choice. One of his key roles will be to make sure the machine's Governor remembers the nominating convention.
This strategy worked to retire Dick Lugar.
It still works.

Mass, have to throw in my two cents as your post got me thinking and reminicing.

Mass, without a doubt the Tea Party both state wide and outside the state played a roll in defeating Lugar along with the feeling among Hoosier Republcans that Lugar had lost his Hoosier roots.

Should keep in mind Lugar lost in a primary election and Micah Beckwith eked out a victory at a GOP state convention. The dynamics and strategies in winning the nominations in a primary or a convention are both similar and different.

Beckwith didn't have the endorsement of Braun or Trump, but he did have the support of several country chairman, so it could be said the party machinery was divided.

On personal note, although active with both parties at the grass roots level, never took the time and effort to become a delegate at a state convention. Went to conventions in different capacities but not as a delegate. Did enoy seeing acquaintances and attending all the festivities though.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Mass, have to throw in my two cents as your post got me thinking and reminicing.

Mass, without a doubt the Tea Party both state wide and outside the state played a roll in defeating Lugar along with the feeling among Hoosier Republcans that Lugar had lost his Hoosier roots.

Should keep in mind Lugar lost in a primary election and Micah Beckwith eked out a victory at a GOP state convention. The dynamics and strategies in winning the nominations in a primary or a convention are both similar and different.

Beckwith didn't have the endorsement of Braun or Trump, but he did have the support of several country chairman, so it could be said the party machinery was divided.

On personal note, although active with both parties at the grass roots level, never took the time and effort to become a delegate at a state convention. Went to conventions in different capacities but not as a delegate. Did enoy seeing acquaintances and attending all the festivities though.

Beckwith won by over 100 votes.

When we retired Lugar, early on, we had 90% of the county chairmen ...it eroded somewhat, but only 5-8 %....
Lieutenant Governor is not nominated separately in primaries.
The Alt-right, along with Christian Nationalists, understood the Convention dynamic, and outworked the establishment kingmakers.
And we're just getting to critical mass.
You ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

[BradStevens]

Beckwith won by over 100 votes.

When we retired Lugar, early on, we had 90% of the county chairmen ...it eroded somewhat, but only 5-8 %....
Lieutenant Governor is not nominated separately in primaries.
The Alt-right, along with Christian Nationalists, understood the Convention dynamic, and outworked the establishment kingmakers.
And we're just getting to critical mass.
You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Genuinely curious here: what do you mean by a Christian Nationalist? Do you consider yourself one? What does that mean to you? I hear the term thrown around, but I'm not sure it's one thing or that everyone defines it the same way.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Much worse today.

Great depth. Amazing analysis

 

[Digressions]

Beckwith won by over 100 votes.

When we retired Lugar, early on, we had 90% of the county chairmen ...it eroded somewhat, but only 5-8 %....
Lieutenant Governor is not nominated separately in primaries.
The Alt-right, along with Christian Nationalists, understood the Convention dynamic, and outworked the establishment kingmakers.
And we're just getting to critical mass.
You ain't seen nothin' yet.

I'm curious as to your biggest complaint with Lugar?

Edit: Or complaints, in general, assuming there are multiple?

 

[hoot1]

Beckwith won by over 100 votes.

When we retired Lugar, early on, we had 90% of the county chairmen ...it eroded somewhat, but only 5-8 %....
Lieutenant Governor is not nominated separately in primaries.
The Alt-right, along with Christian Nationalists, understood the Convention dynamic, and outworked the establishment kingmakers.
And we're just getting to critical mass.
You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Mass, the Beckwith win with 51.8% (891) of the vote to McGuire's 48.2 % (828), doesn't seem like a resounding victory to me.

Do agree that I haven't "seen nothin' yet" as only time will tell how Hoosiers will react when they find out more about the ideology of Beckwith's Christian Nationalism

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Mass, the Beckwith win with 51.8% (891) of the vote to McGuire's 48.2 % (828), doesn't seem like a resounding victory to me.

Do agree that I haven't "seen nothin' yet" as only time will tell how Hoosiers will react when they find out more about the ideology of Beckwith's Christian Nationalism

I stand corrected on the actual delegate vote margin of 63.

IMO, disregarding the margin, the revolt among the rank and file against the RINO Indiana machine politics is the salient point....
Has Beckwith claimed to be a Christian Nationalist?

Don't think I need to define Christian...at least I hope so...

A Nationalist is one putting the best interests of citizens above all others
In this instance Americans.

do you have a problem with that?

 

[outside shooter]

Christian nationalism: ideology that seeks to create or maintain a legal fusion of Christian religion with a nation’s character. Advocates of Christian nationalism consider their view of Christianity to be an integral part of their country’s identity and want the government to promote—or even enforce—the religion’s position within it.

Christian nationalism | Definition, History, United States, & Facts | Britannica

Christian nationalism, ideology that seeks to create or maintain a legal fusion of Christian religion with a nation’s character. Advocates of Christian nationalism consider their view of Christianity to be an integral part of their country’s identity and want the government to promote—or even

www.britannica.com

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Christian nationalism: ideology that seeks to create or maintain a legal fusion of Christian religion with a nation’s character. Advocates of Christian nationalism consider their view of Christianity to be an integral part of their country’s identity and want the government to promote—or even enforce—the religion’s position within it.

Christian nationalism | Definition, History, United States, & Facts | Britannica

Christian nationalism, ideology that seeks to create or maintain a legal fusion of Christian religion with a nation’s character. Advocates of Christian nationalism consider their view of Christianity to be an integral part of their country’s identity and want the government to promote—or even

www.britannica.com

All of the Founders fit this profile.

'Religeon' does not equal values.

What part of Christian values do you not like?

 

[Digressions]

All of the Founders fit this profile.

'Religeon' does not equal values.

What part of "Christian" values do you not like?

FIFY

 

[Marvin the Martian]

UK had to change, Arkansas hired Calipari.

I had to let the thread run for a bit before ruining it

 

[dbmhoosier]

I think Trump is the only person alive that can save us. Perhaps he was sent by God?

Correct

 

[BCCHoosier]

Correct

Sadly you really believe this.

 

[BradStevens]

I stand corrected on the actual delegate vote margin of 63.

IMO, disregarding the margin, the revolt among the rank and file against the RINO Indiana machine politics is the salient point....
Has Beckwith claimed to be a Christian Nationalist?

Don't think I need to define Christian...at least I hope so...

A Nationalist is one putting the best interests of citizens above all others
In this instance Americans.

do you have a problem with that?

I'm asking for what you believe--so I can't really have a problem with your answer, as long as it honestly reflects your beliefs.

So, for you, a Christian Nationalist (in America) is just a person who wants to put the best interest of American citizens above all others and who is also religiously a Christian? I think based on that definition, you could have a pretty big camp, including people who might want a very secular government. That is different than the Brittanica definition above.

But I'm not quite sure why, with your definition, you'd even add the Christian part. If the former doesn't inform or affect the latter, why not just be Nationalists and be done with it? (For example, with your reading, do you think White Nationalists and Black Nationalists are different in a ideological sense?).

I guess a question that different people who think of themselves as Christian might answer differently is: does being a nationalist conflict with the teachings of Christ?

 

[outside shooter]

What part of Christian values do you not like?

Christian values are often a wonderful CHOICE. I capitalized that word for a reason.

Making it a part of government to enforce Christian values / beliefs / doctrines to the exclusion of values / beliefs / doctrines of all the 4,000 other world religions is, however, a travesty. One pointed out by many founders.

We can (and do) enforce standards of ethics and morality. It seems to me that religion is distinct from ethics and morality. I mean, agnostics are less likely to commit every single crime I can think of, relative to Christians, including violent crimes.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Christian values are often a wonderful CHOICE. I capitalized that word for a reason.

Making it a part of government to enforce Christian values / beliefs / doctrines to the exclusion of values / beliefs / doctrines of all the 4,000 other world religions is, however, a travesty. One pointed out by many founders.

We can (and do) enforce standards of ethics and morality. It seems to me that religion is distinct from ethics and morality. I mean, agnostics are less likely to commit every single crime I can think of, relative to Christians, including violent crimes.

..."agnostics are less likely to commit every single crime I can think of, relative to Christians, including violent crimes".

You are even more mendacious than I had previously thought.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I'm asking for what you believe--so I can't really have a problem with your answer, as long as it honestly reflects your beliefs.

So, for you, a Christian Nationalist (in America) is just a person who wants to put the best interest of American citizens above all others and who is also religiously a Christian? I think based on that definition, you could have a pretty big camp, including people who might want a very secular government. That is different than the Brittanica definition above.

But I'm not quite sure why, with your definition, you'd even add the Christian part. If the former doesn't inform or affect the latter, why not just be Nationalists and be done with it? (For example, with your reading, do you think White Nationalists and Black Nationalists are different in a ideological sense?).

I guess a question that different people who think of themselves as Christian might answer differently is: does being a nationalist conflict with the teachings of Christ?

I am a Christian. I am a Deacon.
I serve as Chaplain among my other duties at my Legion Post. I practice Christian values. I am a decorated combat veteran.
I serve my church, my fellow Veterans, and served this nation when called to do so.
Nowhere do any of the doctrines I have and still serve require rolling over to domination by lawbreakers, criminals and false gods.
This country was founded by Christians who practiced Christian piety and traditional mores. They fought, lived and died to build the greatest society ever seen on this planet, "The Shining City on the Hill".
This Nation WILL be saved.

One way or another.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Particularly in France. That was a marriage of convenience at the time. The fact they are having problems holding that coalition together isn't too big of a shock.

Why did that 'marriage' occur?

 

[BradStevens]

I am a Christian. I am a Deacon.
I serve as Chaplain among my other duties at my Legion Post. I practice Christian values. I am a decorated combat veteran.
I serve my church, my fellow Veterans, and served this nation when called to do so.
Nowhere do any of the doctrines I have and still serve require rolling over to domination by lawbreakers, criminals and false gods.
This country was founded by Christians who practiced Christian piety and traditional mores. They fought, lived and died to build the greatest society ever seen on this planet, "The Shining City on the Hill".
This Nation WILL be saved.

One way or another.

Thanks for your service. I take it you’re not interested in going deeper. But thanks for answering my initial question.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Why did that 'marriage' occur?

French election: Rivals unite against Le Pen’s far right

Hundreds of candidates from Macron’s camp and the left-wing alliance withdraw in an effort to keep the National Rally out.

www.politico.eu

 

[IUCrazy2]

I'm asking for what you believe--so I can't really have a problem with your answer, as long as it honestly reflects your beliefs.

So, for you, a Christian Nationalist (in America) is just a person who wants to put the best interest of American citizens above all others and who is also religiously a Christian? I think based on that definition, you could have a pretty big camp, including people who might want a very secular government. That is different than the Brittanica definition above.

But I'm not quite sure why, with your definition, you'd even add the Christian part. If the former doesn't inform or affect the latter, why not just be Nationalists and be done with it? (For example, with your reading, do you think White Nationalists and Black Nationalists are different in a ideological sense?).

I guess a question that different people who think of themselves as Christian might answer differently is: does being a nationalist conflict with the teachings of Christ?

To your last question, I don't know. I think it could and it also could not depending on practice.

At the end of the day, I don't think Jesus cares much for our petty worldly squabbles one way or the other. That isn't what we are supposed to be wrapped up in anyway.

And if I may be personally honest, I am starting to fall into a camp that is getting more disinterested in either party. It was honestly a fine needle to thread with the populism stuff and I am just not a big fan of the route the GOP appears to be heading, nor am I a fan of the Democrats at all. So maybe I have been too wrapped up in all of this junk too.....

Anyways, hope you all have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Spend time with family, do something that isn't wrapped around what a few hundred blowhards in this country decide to argue about on any given day. Go Hoosiers tomorrow as well.

 

[hoot1]

All of the Founders fit this profile.

'Religeon' does not equal values.

What part of Christian values do you not like?

Mass, what did "all" the Founders believe in respect to the term freedom of religion?

Put"all" in quotes per your post.

Personally have a hard time believing the Founders all shared exactly the same religious ideology even though being Christains.

Furthermore, I doubt a large percentage of the Indiana Republicans including delegates who voted for Beckwith at the state GOP convention even understand Beckwith's Christian Nationalism.

Mass, as you say, we ain't seen nothin' yet. To this I add, in respect to Beckwith and his Christian Nationalism. Got a feeling he will end up with a short political career a la Mourdock.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Thanks for your service. I take it you’re not interested in going deeper. But thanks for answering my initial question.

Not to be all cynical, but my guess is Mas is smart enough to know how poorly a deep dive into his beliefs would be taken.