Drake Coach Ben McCollum Reads Like A CCC Resume

[Pryght]

Those are good questions, but they’re kind of backwards. It sure seems to me players are more interested in money than modern. And winning will always drive fan/backer/nil enthusiasm.

I agree, NIL money is very important. I think most top recruits know that playing in a system that mirrors the NBA (spacing/pace/shooting) prepares them for the next level (and displays their skills better to NBA teams), which in turn boosts their earning potential after college ends. That's why schools that run a modern style, like Alabama, are landing top talent and thriving. But you're right, it all begins and ends with money.

 

[Stuffshot]

Another take at a "list", for me...

Coaches I'd be ELATED about: Stevens, Oats, Pearl, Donovan

Coaches I'd be excited about: Otz, Smart, McCollum, Few

Coaches I'd be happy about: Williams, McCasland, Drew, McDermott, Altman, May

Coaches I'd be "mid" about: Cronin, DeVries, Calhoun, Byington, Randy Bennett, Gates, Brownell

Coaches I know would win, but I'd be wary about the baggage: Beard, Golden, Jans, Wade

Wow.

When I see posts like this, I remember all the posts from the past coach hirings that basically say, "How can they hire this guy?? The guy they hired was 15th in this board's list of preferred coaches!! Don't they read TheHoosier to find out what coaches we approve?"

Just kidding of course but, by my count, IUNorth has ruled out 21 ~half-way decent or better coaches.

The speculation on this board automatically creates headwinds and opposition. Hope this doesn't chill any potential candidates.

 

[ams66]

The speculation on this board automatically creates headwinds and opposition. Hope this doesn't chill any potential candidates.

Almost zero percent chance any coaches we might hire are reading this board.

 

[IndyMitchell]

He is basically this year's Josh Schertz. Won big at D2 and then proves he can do it in the MVC. Schertz was able to do it at ISU. McCollum already had a foundation at Drake. Schertz plays a better offense in my opinion.

 

[kkott]

He is basically this year's Josh Schertz. Won big at D2 and then proves he can do it in the MVC. Schertz was able to do it at ISU. McCollum already had a foundation at Drake. Schertz plays a better offense in my opinion.

What's the view on what Schertz is doing at Wash U? Checked and 15-5 but not playing anybody. Loved what I heard and saw out of him last year.

 

[IUNorth]

What's the view on what Schertz is doing at Wash U? Checked and 15-5 but not playing anybody. Loved what I heard and saw out of him last year.

He's at St Louis. I think 14-10, 7-4 in conference. Not sure what the program was like when he arrived. But his D2 record, and what he turned ISU in to in a couple years, is impressive. His ISU team got screwed last year, should have been in the NCAA, without question.

Not sure why I haven't included him on my various lists?...Another example of a guy that I think would probably be very successful at IU.

 

[kkott]

Another example of a guy that I think would probably be very successful at IU.

you have way more confidence in the ability for a guy to make that big leap to a P4 school and win quickly. Way more. But, if you're granting that Schertz would likely be successful, that explains why you think there are a ton of guys out there who would succeed, and we just disagree about that. Same question to you: how do you explain our Admin being so inept to have hired 5 (not counting DD) consecutive guys who weren't successful in the long haul, if there are tons of good candidates out there every year?

 

[.Gerdis]

you have way more confidence in the ability for a guy to make that big leap to a P4 school and win quickly. Way more. But, if you're granting that Schertz would likely be successful, that explains why you think there are a ton of guys out there who would succeed, and we just disagree about that. Same question to you: how do you explain our Admin being so inept to have hired 5 (not counting DD) consecutive guys who weren't in the long haul, if there are tons of good candidates out there?

Maybe there is more to it than just making the hire?

 

[IUNorth]

you have way more confidence in the ability for a guy to make that big leap to a P4 school and win quickly. Way more. But, if you're granting that Schertz would likely be successful, that explains why you think there are a ton of guys out there who would succeed, and we just disagree about that. Same question to you: how do you explain our Admin being so inept to have hired 5 (not counting DD) consecutive guys who weren't successful in the long haul, if there are tons of good candidates out there every year?

I've explained this multiple times now...and obviously its just my theory.

You, and many others, are still using conventional wisdom. Gotta have connections to recruit, gotta have time to build and develop, need experience coaching and managing elite level players...etc... Some of that probably still applies. But I don't think its nearly as important as it used to be. Does everyone think UK, Louisville, Arizona, Villanova, Duke...ALL of them, would have opted for an unproven P4 guy in the last couple years if having a proven P4 guy was THAT big of a deal? The common comment, especially with UK and UL last year, was that they "couldn't" get proven guys...hmmmm....Kentucky just couldn't get a more proven guy? And if it is true, that none of those schools could get someone more proven...then why are we even discussing any of the more proven guys?

No...the reality is, I suspect...that AD's are wising up to the fact that there are dozens upon dozens of good, smart, forward thinking coaches out there, that are learning to hustle, that are learning to compete with the big boys with less, that are developing and losing players to bigger schools every year and still winning...and realizing that particular preparation is as impactful, if not more impactful than some coaches like Chris Beard, or Dana Altman, or Mark Few...that's been at the P4 table for years now, and because of that just "know what its like" to coach at the P4 level.

And that having someone like that, increases the likelihood that he'll be more adaptive, and more capable of changing and improving as these NIL/Portal dynamics continue to evolve and change.

Ben McCollum...he dominated D2 for over a decade...domination that really no other active coach has ever shown or had, at any level. Then he took a job at a D1 school. The previous coach took Drake's best player with him. Other Drake players left to go other places as well. McCollum comes in to Drake with a handful of his D2 kids, who are now obviously showing they would have been very capable D1 players...and he's thriving. His current Drake team would be competitive in this year's B10. Probably wouldn't win it, but would be competitive, middle of the pack maybe, type team. They have the same NET ranking as IU, essentially, but have a coach that's proven he'll win most games that he's "in".

If he were to be the choice...He comes to IU, brings Stirtz, Banks, and a couple others with him. He keeps 3-4 guys from the current roster. He gets the incoming frosh to stick to their commitment. And then he goes, and with resources and accessibility he's never had before, he finds 4 high end guys in the portal that fit his program. You don't think that his team next year would be successful??

That's just McCollum...Byington (who would have 1 year of SEC experience), he could bring more talent with him...Schertz has a couple key guys with eligibility left...

 

[ANOTHERBANNERYEAR]

He's at St Louis. I think 14-10, 7-4 in conference. Not sure what the program was like when he arrived. But his D2 record, and what he turned ISU in to in a couple years, is impressive. His ISU team got screwed last year, should have been in the NCAA, without question.

Not sure why I haven't included him on my various lists?...Another example of a guy that I think would probably be very successful at IU.

Just a .600 record coach. Average.

 

[kkott]

I've explained this multiple times now...and obviously its just my theory.

You, and many others, are still using conventional wisdom. Gotta have connections to recruit, gotta have time to build and develop, need experience coaching and managing elite level players...etc... Some of that probably still applies. But I don't think its nearly as important as it used to be. Does everyone think UK, Louisville, Arizona, Villanova, Duke...ALL of them, would have opted for an unproven P4 guy in the last couple years if having a proven P4 guy was THAT big of a deal? The common comment, especially with UK and UL last year, was that they "couldn't" get proven guys...hmmmm....Kentucky just couldn't get a more proven guy? And if it is true, that none of those schools could get someone more proven...then why are we even discussing any of the more proven guys?

No...the reality is, I suspect...that AD's are wising up to the fact that there are dozens upon dozens of good, smart, forward thinking coaches out there, that are learning to hustle, that are learning to compete with the big boys with less, that are developing and losing players to bigger schools every year and still winning...and realizing that particular preparation is as impactful, if not more impactful than some coaches like Chris Beard, or Dana Altman, or Mark Few...that's been at the P4 table for years now, and because of that just "know what its like" to coach at the P4 level.

And that having someone like that, increases the likelihood that he'll be more adaptive, and more capable of changing and improving as these NIL/Portal dynamics continue to evolve and change.

Ben McCollum...he dominated D2 for over a decade...domination that really no other active coach has ever shown or had, at any level. Then he took a job at a D1 school. The previous coach took Drake's best player with him. Other Drake players left to go other places as well. McCollum comes in to Drake with a handful of his D2 kids, who are now obviously showing they would have been very capable D1 players...and he's thriving. His current Drake team would be competitive in this year's B10. Probably wouldn't win it, but would be competitive, middle of the pack maybe, type team. They have the same NET ranking as IU, essentially, but have a coach that's proven he'll win most games that he's "in".

If he were to be the choice...He comes to IU, brings Stirtz, Banks, and a couple others with him. He keeps 3-4 guys from the current roster. He gets the incoming frosh to stick to their commitment. And then he goes, and with resources and accessibility he's never had before, he finds 4 high end guys in the portal that fit his program. You don't think that his team next year would be successful??

That's just McCollum...Byington (who would have 1 year of SEC experience), he could bring more talent with him...Schertz has a couple key guys with eligibility left...

I don't think it's just getting the talent, or coaching the x's and o's that guy's moving up struggle with, I think it's just the totality of the job: dealing with the added scrutiny, ADs/admins, media commitments, and the recruiting. Maybe NIL does change the equation a bit, but it's also just 1 more factor they have to master... quickly. And, everyone else has NIL too, so it's competitive. Neither UNC or MSU got the bigs they were seeking this past year. UL and UK struggled (both were reportedly on their 3rd+ candidates) with getting proven guys, because 1) there aren't that many out there, and 2) they're getting locked in with buyouts and seem less inclined to move when they can build a competitive program where they are. No one would've ever considered staying at an Auburn or Alabama if UL and UK came calling... but they did. You're also covering a ton of ground with the programs you mention, and what I see that a lot of those programs did was get Assts from established programs, where they've already seen all the demands they'll deal with. And, let's not annoint guys too soon. Nova may be looking for a new coach in the next year or 2 and UL, UK and UM while impressive so far, are all in their first year, so they still have a lot to prove. As much as UK fans like Pope, that won't go far if he's not getting to E8s or better in the next 2-3 years.

I've said all along that I think our best chance of getting another great program coach is finding someone as an up and comer, but I think it's crazy to think there are dozens of those guys out there who are viable candidates. Again I ask: how do you explain how badly we've done with the last 5 guys if there are that many great candidates out there every year. Finding the right coach and fit is tough to do, and those guys aren't out there by the dozens.

 

[ams66]

you have way more confidence in the ability for a guy to make that big leap to a P4 school and win quickly. Way more. But, if you're granting that Schertz would likely be successful, that explains why you think there are a ton of guys out there who would succeed, and we just disagree about that. Same question to you: how do you explain our Admin being so inept to have hired 5 (not counting DD) consecutive guys who weren't successful in the long haul, if there are tons of good candidates out there every year?

Three of the hires (Davis, Sampson, Woodson) were a result of administrative or trustee interference. Crean was one of the few who would even consider building a team in a program under sanction and starting with one walk-on (without NIL or portal). Miller was really the only "normal" hire in that bunch and he was pretty widely thought of as a good or great hire at the time.

 

[GThomas]

He's at St Louis. I think 14-10, 7-4 in conference. Not sure what the program was like when he arrived. But his D2 record, and what he turned ISU in to in a couple years, is impressive. His ISU team got screwed last year, should have been in the NCAA, without question.

Not sure why I haven't included him on my various lists?...Another example of a guy that I think would probably be very successful at IU.

He only slightly moved up in competition and is a pedestrian 14-10. That's why his name isn't out there. imo.

 

[IUNorth]

I don't think it's just getting the talent, or coaching the x's and o's that guy's moving up struggle with, I think it's just the totality of the job: dealing with the added scrutiny, ADs/admins, media commitments, and the recruiting. Maybe NIL does change the equation a bit, but it's also just 1 more factor they have to master... quickly. And, everyone else has NIL too, so it's competitive. Neither UNC or MSU got the bigs they were seeking this past year. UL and UK struggled (both were reportedly on their 3rd+ candidates) with getting proven guys, because 1) there aren't that many out there, and 2) they're getting locked in with buyouts and seem less inclined to move when they can build a competitive program where they are. No one would've ever considered staying at an Auburn or Alabama if UL and UK came calling... but they did. You're also covering a ton of ground with the programs you mention, and what I see that a lot of those programs did was get Assts from established programs, where they've already seen all the demands they'll deal with. And, let's not annoint guys too soon. Nova may be looking for a new coach in the next year or 2 and UL, UK and UM while impressive so far, are all in their first year, so they still have a lot to prove. As much as UK fans like Pope, that won't go far if he's not getting to E8s or better in the next 2-3 years.

I've said all along that I think our best chance of getting another great program coach is finding someone as an up and comer, but I think it's crazy to think there are dozens of those guys out there who are viable candidates. Again I ask: how do you explain how badly we've done with the last 5 guys if there are that many great candidates out there every year. Finding the right coach and fit is tough to do, and those guys aren't out there by the dozens.

IU's coaching hire failures...

Davis...no search, caved and chose the guy that the players all wanted...no previous coaching experience. This one isn't an applicable comp to what Dolson will do, and how he'll approach this search.

Sampson... search, chose a great coach, just didn't have the foresight to not take a risk on a guy with past issues. This one is applicable...different, very different, set of issues...but as I've said many times, this is why I'd stay away from guys like Beard, Golden, Jans, and probably Wade. But they sure found a damn good basketball coach in that search.

Crean... search...but completely different scenario to what we're facing now. IU was a complete dumpster fire, with the prospect of no returning players, and no NIL or Portal dynamics to help them. Whoever took over that job, was literally building from scratch, and had to do it with freshmen. Taking all that in to account, Crean was probably actually a really good choice. In a few years, he had IU "back" to being one of the best programs in the country. He just wasn't a guy that was ever going to keep IU at or near the top. And we didn't move on quickly enough...and because of that, missed out on a couple good candidates.

Archie... search... this one is the one that challenges my assertion, and backs up yours. But, Archie inherited a decent amount of players, and didn't have NIL or the Portal to help him react and build a roster that fit his own style...AND he was facing the height of the IU Bill of Rights "constraints" when it came to rebuilding his roster. The good thing, Dolson reacted more quickly on this one than previous Admins likely would have.

Woodson... no lengthy search...by all accounts, Dolson locked in on Stevens. And when Stevens didn't happen, there wasn't a working list of viable coaches he had been vetting, interviewing, etc... So Woodson backfilled, and then was fasttracked, and the decision was made. And then...even Woodson didn't have the full power of NIL and Portal, in his first couple years, to build the roster how he saw fit. He focused mainly on bringing everyone back, and chased HS and transfer talent late in the process.

The ONLY coaching search that really in any way is a comp to what is going on right now, is Archie's. That wasn't Dolson. And again, the coaching dynamics these days couldn't be more different than they were 8 years ago. Hell, even access to personality cues is easier than it was back then with social media, Youtube, etc...

This is the first time Dolson will have completed a full, comprehensive search. And this time around, he'll have NIL, Portal, many more recent examples of non P4 guys having success at P4 schools...

You're wrong on this one. Just like there are literally hundreds more impactful players available, every year now, for IU, or any school to change its fortunes quickly... There are more coaches available too that have the skills and personalities to do it...and that now have the resources.

 

[IndyMitchell]

Just a .600 record coach. Average.

First year there. Last year he won over 30 games. They run a fast break style offense and lots of 3's. They have a good help defense that he runs too.

 

[ANOTHERBANNERYEAR]

First year there. Last year he won over 30 games. They run a fast break style offense and lots of 3's. They have a good help defense that he runs too.

Career

 

[ulrey]

Iowa fan here and a Northwest Missouri State alum.

He is the real deal and hope to god that our AD gets Fran out and McCollum in. Above all, his teams play with a crazy amount of toughness. They work the shot clock but are super efficient- lots of high ball screen action and options off of that. His teams will run when it is there but really value the ball. He is 21-2 at Drake with 3/5 starters being former D2 guys. Stirtz is one of the better players I have seen in CBB this year as he is leading his league in points, assists, and steals.

Do you think this is Fran’s last year?

 

[VanPastorMan]

I agree, NIL money is very important. I think most top recruits know that playing in a system that mirrors the NBA (spacing/pace/shooting) prepares them for the next level (and displays their skills better to NBA teams), which in turn boosts their earning potential after college ends. That's why schools that run a modern style, like Alabama, are landing top talent and thriving. But you're right, it all begins and ends with money.

It begins with money but you got to pay the right players. How much money has IU paid compared to other programs? Have there been results congruent with the money spent?

 

[Harry Hondo]

FWIW, Dakich thinks McCollum is the best basketball coach in college ball. He compares him to John Beilein in how he runs his offense and how he gets the most out of his players. Now, I can't stand Dakich however I do think he knows his stuff about the game and I was surprised to see him say this. Perhaps McCollum would be a HR like Cignetti.

 

[kkott]

IU's coaching hire failures...

Davis...no search, caved and chose the guy that the players all wanted...no previous coaching experience. This one isn't an applicable comp to what Dolson will do, and how he'll approach this search.

Sampson... search, chose a great coach, just didn't have the foresight to not take a risk on a guy with past issues. This one is applicable...different, very different, set of issues...but as I've said many times, this is why I'd stay away from guys like Beard, Golden, Jans, and probably Wade. But they sure found a damn good basketball coach in that search.

Crean... search...but completely different scenario to what we're facing now. IU was a complete dumpster fire, with the prospect of no returning players, and no NIL or Portal dynamics to help them. Whoever took over that job, was literally building from scratch, and had to do it with freshmen. Taking all that in to account, Crean was probably actually a really good choice. In a few years, he had IU "back" to being one of the best programs in the country. He just wasn't a guy that was ever going to keep IU at or near the top. And we didn't move on quickly enough...and because of that, missed out on a couple good candidates.

Archie... search... this one is the one that challenges my assertion, and backs up yours. But, Archie inherited a decent amount of players, and didn't have NIL or the Portal to help him react and build a roster that fit his own style...AND he was facing the height of the IU Bill of Rights "constraints" when it came to rebuilding his roster. The good thing, Dolson reacted more quickly on this one than previous Admins likely would have.

Woodson... no lengthy search...by all accounts, Dolson locked in on Stevens. And when Stevens didn't happen, there wasn't a working list of viable coaches he had been vetting, interviewing, etc... So Woodson backfilled, and then was fasttracked, and the decision was made. And then...even Woodson didn't have the full power of NIL and Portal, in his first couple years, to build the roster how he saw fit. He focused mainly on bringing everyone back, and chased HS and transfer talent late in the process.

The ONLY coaching search that really in any way is a comp to what is going on right now, is Archie's. That wasn't Dolson. And again, the coaching dynamics these days couldn't be more different than they were 8 years ago. Hell, even access to personality cues is easier than it was back then with social media, Youtube, etc...

This is the first time Dolson will have completed a full, comprehensive search. And this time around, he'll have NIL, Portal, many more recent examples of non P4 guys having success at P4 schools...

You're wrong on this one. Just like there are literally hundreds more impactful players available, every year now, for IU, or any school to change its fortunes quickly... There are more coaches available too that have the skills and personalities to do it...and that now have the resources.

You do realize all the other programs have NIL now too, right? Why didn't UNC or MSU get the post they wanted? Why didn't we get Connor Essegian instead of Luke Goode? Yes, you can rebuild faster with NIL. Doesn't mean you will. Hiring a guy moving up is a risk, and one I don't think you're giving enough credence to.

 

[IUNorth]

You do realize all the other programs have NIL now too, right? Why didn't UNC or MSU get the post they wanted? Why didn't we get Connor Essegian instead of Luke Goode? Yes, you can rebuild faster with NIL. Doesn't mean you will. Hiring a guy moving up is a risk, and one I don't think you're giving enough credence to.

Everyone is risky. Even Brad Stevens hasn't coached college ball in over a decade.

And Indiana has more NIL money than probably 97% of the rest of college bball...from every account I've read, the most in the B10. And there are aspects to being a successful lower level college coach, that I think are now showing themselves to be very "translatable" up to high major coaching... Namely, the necessity to be willing and able to find players that fit your program...that are "lower dollar" players, that produce at "higher dollar" levels. And then when they produce for you, and you lose them to programs with more resources, you have to do it again the next year.

Beard is risky because he's one night away from IU "cancelling" him. No matter what you think happened with his fiance...guilty, not guilty, self defense, beat the hell out of her...doesn't really matter. Its out there. So reality is...one night where he ties one on, and gets in to some other kind of altercation...or his ex Fiance has a night like that herself, and decides she's gonna change her story...whatever it may be... We're back to square one. Maybe that's worth the risk...maybe not.

McCollum is risky because he's never coached at the P4 level before. I call this the Archie risk...if he comes in, and his style and personality don't jive with the IU job...then what? I look at what his Drake team is this year. He had to build that team, with a handful of D2 kids, a couple Drake returners, etc... And that team would be middle of the pack in the B10 this year. Is that his floor? His ceiling? I think its a reasonable assumption that he'd bring Bennett Stirtz with him, and probably a couple other Drake players with eligibility left. And by virtue of his overwhelming success thus far, he strikes me as someone that will retain the IU kids that he thinks fit his program, and he'll get portal/HS kids also that he thinks fit his program. And it doesn't take too much of a leap, to believe that being at IU will allow him to get at least a slightly higher caliber player than he was able to last offseason for Drake. So...take this years Drake team, add 3-4 higher level players, that fit his style and program... I think THAT team competes for a B10 title. And I don't think that's some sort of wild reach.

Mark Byington...he's beaten some really good teams this year (Lost to Drake, ironically), he's having a really good first year in the SEC. He has some really talented players on his Vandy team, that have eligibility left. I'd use the same narrative as I did with McCollum, but despite him showing he can be competitive at the P4 level this year...I think because of his entire history, its not as certain that he would be as successful, immediately, at IU.

The key ingredients...Good, smart, forward thinking basketball coach + proven track record of outperforming their peers (in college) + has a couple key players on their current team that could come with them to IU. Anyone that fits that bill will more likely than not have immediate success at IU...relative to what we've seen since Crean. And its my contention there are a lot of guys out there that could do that.

Are there a lot that will bring us multiple national championships in the next 5 years?? Probably not. But there are a lot that will be more successful than Archie and Woodson...and that basically means NCAA tournaments every year, and competing near the top of the B10 ever year. And I think, practically, for the next few years anyway, we'd all be jacked about that.

 

[hexumhawk]

Do you think this is Fran’s last year?

I think so. The fanbase has completely turned and attendance has fallen so far that it firing him might not be avoidable.

 

[.Gerdis]

You do realize all the other programs have NIL now too, right? Why didn't UNC or MSU get the post they wanted? Why didn't we get Connor Essegian instead of Luke Goode? Yes, you can rebuild faster with NIL. Doesn't mean you will. Hiring a guy moving up is a risk, and one I don't think you're giving enough credence to.

There is this thinking here by some people that because IU has top 5 NIL it means that the job is easier. In other words, there is this giant list of qualified candidates, and because IU has unlimited resources that any of these candidates would do better at IU than they could anywhere else.

I think the opposite may be true. We may be unique in that our NIL is vastly more than other programs, but that can also bring challenges that other programs don’t have. It’s possible (and, IMHO likely) that all of that money narrows the list of qualified candidates that would be successful.

 

[kkott]

Everyone is risky. Even Brad Stevens hasn't coached college ball in over a decade.

And Indiana has more NIL money than probably 97% of the rest of college bball...from every account I've read, the most in the B10. And there are aspects to being a successful lower level college coach, that I think are now showing themselves to be very "translatable" up to high major coaching... Namely, the necessity to be willing and able to find players that fit your program...that are "lower dollar" players, that produce at "higher dollar" levels. And then when they produce for you, and you lose them to programs with more resources, you have to do it again the next year.

Beard is risky because he's one night away from IU "cancelling" him. No matter what you think happened with his fiance...guilty, not guilty, self defense, beat the hell out of her...doesn't really matter. Its out there. So reality is...one night where he ties one on, and gets in to some other kind of altercation...or his ex Fiance has a night like that herself, and decides she's gonna change her story...whatever it may be... We're back to square one. Maybe that's worth the risk...maybe not.

McCollum is risky because he's never coached at the P4 level before. I call this the Archie risk...if he comes in, and his style and personality don't jive with the IU job...then what? I look at what his Drake team is this year. He had to build that team, with a handful of D2 kids, a couple Drake returners, etc... And that team would be middle of the pack in the B10 this year. Is that his floor? His ceiling? I think its a reasonable assumption that he'd bring Bennett Stirtz with him, and probably a couple other Drake players with eligibility left. And by virtue of his overwhelming success thus far, he strikes me as someone that will retain the IU kids that he thinks fit his program, and he'll get portal/HS kids also that he thinks fit his program. And it doesn't take too much of a leap, to believe that being at IU will allow him to get at least a slightly higher caliber player than he was able to last offseason for Drake. So...take this years Drake team, add 3-4 higher level players, that fit his style and program... I think THAT team competes for a B10 title. And I don't think that's some sort of wild reach.

Mark Byington...he's beaten some really good teams this year (Lost to Drake, ironically), he's having a really good first year in the SEC. He has some really talented players on his Vandy team, that have eligibility left. I'd use the same narrative as I did with McCollum, but despite him showing he can be competitive at the P4 level this year...I think because of his entire history, its not as certain that he would be as successful, immediately, at IU.

The key ingredients...Good, smart, forward thinking basketball coach + proven track record of outperforming their peers (in college) + has a couple key players on their current team that could come with them to IU. Anyone that fits that bill will more likely than not have immediate success at IU...relative to what we've seen since Crean. And its my contention there are a lot of guys out there that could do that.

Are there a lot that will bring us multiple national championships in the next 5 years?? Probably not. But there are a lot that will be more successful than Archie and Woodson...and that basically means NCAA tournaments every year, and competing near the top of the B10 ever year. And I think, practically, for the next few years anyway, we'd all be jacked about that.

I agree, everyone is risky and needs to be vetted and interviewed and considered. It's why I think it's crazy to think there are tons of folks who are interested/available and would be successful. I don't think the measure should be "more successful and Archie and Woodson". I think what Woody described is what we're all looking for: compete for B10 and National titles.

After Stevens, who I doubt is even real (again), I think both May and Beard are great candidates, but sounds like Beard won't be considered and May (and Byington) might not be interested to move on after 1 year. Then it's back to the names we've all seen. Hopefully somewhere in there is "the guy" and Dolson identifies and gets him.

 

[IUNorth]

I agree, everyone is risky and needs to be vetted and interviewed and considered. It's why I think it's crazy to think there are tons of folks who are interested/available and would be successful. I don't think the measure should be "more successful and Archie and Woodson". I think what Woody described is what we're all looking for: compete for B10 and National titles.

After Stevens, who I doubt is even real (again), I think both May and Beard are great candidates, but sounds like Beard won't be considered and May (and Byington) might not be interested to move on after 1 year. Then it's back to the names we've all seen. Hopefully somewhere in there is "the guy" and Dolson identifies and gets him.

If all the guys you list aren't interested...and then assuming guys like Pearl and Oats aren't either... I think McCollum almost has to be the choice. Cronin's the only other proven guy I've seen thrown around that might be realistic, and his buyout is enormous.

If its not Stevens or May...

Hire McCollum...

He'll bring most of his own staff, but compel him to also canvas the coaching staff's of the "top" 30-40 P4 schools, and try to hire away an assistant that fits with his personality, has had some recruiting successes with NBA level talent, etc...

He'll bring the following players with him...

Bennett Stirtz...immediate B10 POY candidate, with 1 year eligibility remaining
Tavion Banks...versatile 6-7 wing/big, who's good in their Pick and roll concepts, and can defend multiple positions, 1 year remaining
Cam Manyawu...6-8, defensive oriented big, 2 years eligibility remaining
Isaia Howard...6-5 guard, not a stat stuffer, but does everything well, including being very good defensively...3 years eligibility remaining

Trent Sisley actually fits perfectly in to McCollum's system...work to keep him.
Harun Zyrno...appears to be a guy that could play a Mitch Mascari role, which is knock down 3 point shooter, that gets good looks off Stirtz

Gabe Cupps...something tells me we'd have a completely different view of Cupps, if playing for McCollum. Never and All Big Ten type kid...but depth and leadership

Jakai Newton...if he has any chance at getting healthy...another kid that from what I know of him as a HS player, would thrive in McCollum's system

Then...go get a handful starter level guys. A couple length guys, and a couple perimeter players. Hell, make a full court push to get Mullins.

 

[CriticArisen]

IU's coaching hire failures...

Davis...no search, caved and chose the guy that the players all wanted...no previous coaching experience. This one isn't an applicable comp to what Dolson will do, and how he'll approach this search.

Sampson... search, chose a great coach, just didn't have the foresight to not take a risk on a guy with past issues. This one is applicable...different, very different, set of issues...but as I've said many times, this is why I'd stay away from guys like Beard, Golden, Jans, and probably Wade. But they sure found a damn good basketball coach in that search.

Crean... search...but completely different scenario to what we're facing now. IU was a complete dumpster fire, with the prospect of no returning players, and no NIL or Portal dynamics to help them. Whoever took over that job, was literally building from scratch, and had to do it with freshmen. Taking all that in to account, Crean was probably actually a really good choice. In a few years, he had IU "back" to being one of the best programs in the country. He just wasn't a guy that was ever going to keep IU at or near the top. And we didn't move on quickly enough...and because of that, missed out on a couple good candidates.

Archie... search... this one is the one that challenges my assertion, and backs up yours. But, Archie inherited a decent amount of players, and didn't have NIL or the Portal to help him react and build a roster that fit his own style...AND he was facing the height of the IU Bill of Rights "constraints" when it came to rebuilding his roster. The good thing, Dolson reacted more quickly on this one than previous Admins likely would have.

Woodson... no lengthy search...by all accounts, Dolson locked in on Stevens. And when Stevens didn't happen, there wasn't a working list of viable coaches he had been vetting, interviewing, etc... So Woodson backfilled, and then was fasttracked, and the decision was made. And then...even Woodson didn't have the full power of NIL and Portal, in his first couple years, to build the roster how he saw fit. He focused mainly on bringing everyone back, and chased HS and transfer talent late in the process.

The ONLY coaching search that really in any way is a comp to what is going on right now, is Archie's. That wasn't Dolson. And again, the coaching dynamics these days couldn't be more different than they were 8 years ago. Hell, even access to personality cues is easier than it was back then with social media, Youtube, etc...

This is the first time Dolson will have completed a full, comprehensive search. And this time around, he'll have NIL, Portal, many more recent examples of non P4 guys having success at P4 schools...

You're wrong on this one. Just like there are literally hundreds more impactful players available, every year now, for IU, or any school to change its fortunes quickly... There are more coaches available too that have the skills and personalities to do it...and that now have the resources.

I really disagree with your last paragraph. If your goal is just to make the tourny nearly every season then agree with you. If your goal is to have a legitimate chance for a championship then don’t believe it’s possible with a coach that is plug and play.

You need an elite coach to compete with other elite coaches and the other elite coaches can more or less match IU’s NIL. IU’s NIL is not sufficient to result in a championship without any IU coaching advantage or even a deficit.

Pope is often cited as an example of a coach that turned around a program immediately. Let’s revisit after the tourny and speculate how many seasons Pope will have at KY without a championship run. He has a honeymoon this year and an anything better than Cal attitude. Next season the grumbling will start and season after that he will be worse than Cal and let’s get rid of him if no championship run.

I agree that many mid major coaches look good on paper but not that each of them would be able to make championship runs at IU. That is the risk of selecting a mid major candidate. Maybe you will pick the right guy but chances are you will just make the tourney frequently without a legitimate shot at a championship and the cycle repeats.

If you were wagering today who would you pick to do better in the tourney-Beard, Pope, or May. That is a more immediate result and Pope and May have recruiting advantages but Beard in my view has a coaching advantage. That was the adage was with RMK-He will beat you with his five and then switch and beat you with your five.

I don’t know how IU bball returns to greatness without a great coach. The IU tradition deserves it but selecting before the fact from mid majors necessarily has elements of a crap shoot.

kkott is right that IU has factors related to the fan base and donors that requires even more special personal qualities in the coach to get out of this bottomless pit. Tough as nails comes to mind.

 

[TR32]

I agree, NIL money is very important. I think most top recruits know that playing in a system that mirrors the NBA (spacing/pace/shooting) prepares them for the next level (and displays their skills better to NBA teams), which in turn boosts their earning potential after college ends. That's why schools that run a modern style, like Alabama, are landing top talent and thriving. But you're right, it all begins and ends with money.

Did Indiana win big with Ware, Hood-Shifino, Noah Vonleh?

Nope.

Is Purdue winning big with Fletcher Loyer and Braeden Smith?

Yep.

Get a good coach who is interested in putting Indiana University ahead of individual players.

 

[CriticArisen]

There is this thinking here by some people that because IU has top 5 NIL it means that the job is easier. In other words, there is this giant list of qualified candidates, and because IU has unlimited resources that any of these candidates would do better at IU than they could anywhere else.

I think the opposite may be true. We may be unique in that our NIL is vastly more than other programs, but that can also bring challenges that other programs don’t have. It’s possible (and, IMHO likely) that all of that money narrows the list of qualified candidates that would be successful.

I don’t believe our NIL is an advantage with respect to elite programs. Firstly if you are not an excellent judge of talent, that fits your system, then you just overpay for bad results. Secondly other elite programs can match (close enough) IUs NIL offers for players they really want (Flagg is reportedly at 2 million+this year). Even if slightly less than that of IU and you judge the other offer has better coaching then likely to take the other offer. Thirdly there may be a mercenary element you attract by relying on NIL that really isn’t conducive to team outcome.

 

[CriticArisen]

I don't think it's just getting the talent, or coaching the x's and o's that guy's moving up struggle with, I think it's just the totality of the job: dealing with the added scrutiny, ADs/admins, media commitments, and the recruiting. Maybe NIL does change the equation a bit, but it's also just 1 more factor they have to master... quickly. And, everyone else has NIL too, so it's competitive. Neither UNC or MSU got the bigs they were seeking this past year. UL and UK struggled (both were reportedly on their 3rd+ candidates) with getting proven guys, because 1) there aren't that many out there, and 2) they're getting locked in with buyouts and seem less inclined to move when they can build a competitive program where they are. No one would've ever considered staying at an Auburn or Alabama if UL and UK came calling... but they did. You're also covering a ton of ground with the programs you mention, and what I see that a lot of those programs did was get Assts from established programs, where they've already seen all the demands they'll deal with. And, let's not annoint guys too soon. Nova may be looking for a new coach in the next year or 2 and UL, UK and UM while impressive so far, are all in their first year, so they still have a lot to prove. As much as UK fans like Pope, that won't go far if he's not getting to E8s or better in the next 2-3 years.

I've said all along that I think our best chance of getting another great program coach is finding someone as an up and comer, but I think it's crazy to think there are dozens of those guys out there who are viable candidates. Again I ask: how do you explain how badly we've done with the last 5 guys if there are that many great candidates out there every year. Finding the right coach and fit is tough to do, and those guys aren't out there by the dozens.

There is a bias I don’t understand. Shooters grow on trees and IU championship coaches grow on trees. Easy peasy. Your comments about special personal qualities for the IU job are spot on. Think Daniel in the Den of Lions. I don’t see it as sufficient endorsement alone but May knows how it is at IU (not sure though he could handle it as head coach) and Cronin must have a tough group of donors at UCLA.

 

[CriticArisen]

One thing NIL may have done is to reduce fan tolerance for what they see as poor results. The coaching cycle may be reduced from say 4-5. years to say 3-4 years for not performing to expectation.

I know other posters have kind of touched on this.

How in the hell did the SEC schools collect a very good set of coaches.

 

[kkott]

If all the guys you list aren't interested...and then assuming guys like Pearl and Oats aren't either... I think McCollum almost has to be the choice. Cronin's the only other proven guy I've seen thrown around that might be realistic, and his buyout is enormous.

If its not Stevens or May...

Hire McCollum...

He'll bring most of his own staff, but compel him to also canvas the coaching staff's of the "top" 30-40 P4 schools, and try to hire away an assistant that fits with his personality, has had some recruiting successes with NBA level talent, etc...

He'll bring the following players with him...

Bennett Stirtz...immediate B10 POY candidate, with 1 year eligibility remaining
Tavion Banks...versatile 6-7 wing/big, who's good in their Pick and roll concepts, and can defend multiple positions, 1 year remaining
Cam Manyawu...6-8, defensive oriented big, 2 years eligibility remaining
Isaia Howard...6-5 guard, not a stat stuffer, but does everything well, including being very good defensively...3 years eligibility remaining

Trent Sisley actually fits perfectly in to McCollum's system...work to keep him.
Harun Zyrno...appears to be a guy that could play a Mitch Mascari role, which is knock down 3 point shooter, that gets good looks off Stirtz

Gabe Cupps...something tells me we'd have a completely different view of Cupps, if playing for McCollum. Never and All Big Ten type kid...but depth and leadership

Jakai Newton...if he has any chance at getting healthy...another kid that from what I know of him as a HS player, would thrive in McCollum's system

Then...go get a handful starter level guys. A couple length guys, and a couple perimeter players. Hell, make a full court push to get Mullins.

No decision on a coach should be based on what players he can bring with him, period. Get the best coach, then let him get the players he wants on his team. Do a thorough search, and see if you can't find the guy who blows you away and convinces you his vision and your expectations and hopes for the program align. If that guy is Ben McCollum, then that's who you hire.

 

[kkott]

He only slightly moved up in competition and is a pedestrian 14-10. That's why his name isn't out there. imo.

have you seen their schedule? Not sure he even moved up on competition. Quick, better win: Carnegie-Melon or Case Wastern?

 

[CriticArisen]

Sorry for another post but…

Another impact of NIL is it takes away an excuse that was used routinely in days gone by. Team X has a good team and we suck because they cheat. Impossible to cheat now. Fans cant explain away sub par performance to that reason and so another increase of pressure on coaches to perform to expectation.

 

[Pryght]

Whoever our next coach is, I hope they excel at evaluating talent that fits their system, or better yet, adapt their system to maximize their players' strengths.

 

[Pryght]

Did Indiana win big with Ware, Hood-Shifino, Noah Vonleh?

Nope.

Is Purdue winning big with Fletcher Loyer and Braeden Smith?

Yep.

Get a good coach who is interested in putting Indiana University ahead of individual players.

It’s not just about landing top recruits, it’s about having a system that maximizes their potential. Purdue’s success comes from great coaching and a well-defined system that fits their players. But let’s not pretend talent doesn’t matter. The teams consistently winning big (UConn, Kansas, Duke, etc.) have elite talent AND strong coaching.

Indiana has landed some talented players, but the question is whether they were developed and utilized properly. If the goal is to compete at the highest level, IU needs both: a great coach AND a system that attracts and develops top talent.

 

[CriticArisen]

Whoever our next coach is, I hope they excel at evaluating talent that fits their system, or better yet, adapt their system to maximize their players' strengths.

Absolutely agree

 

[kkott]

IU has factors related to the fan base and donors that requires even more special personal qualities in the coach to get out of this bottomless pit. Tough as nails comes to mind

Yep. Sucks that Beard has the DV/drinking issues. Beyond that I think he is almost a perfect fit. Feel his personality and temperament are a better fit for IU than May, and I think there's a great chance May would be incredibly successful.

 

[CriticArisen]

Yep. Sucks that Beard has the DV/drinking issues. Beyond that I think he is almost a perfect fit. Feel his personality and temperament are a better fit for IU than May, and I think there's a great chance May would be incredibly successful.

That’s the problem with the future, usually can’t be certain. Best you can do is collect as much information as you can (as you always suggest) and make a decision that minimizes your assessed risk. I’m with you, very regretful about that one incident and a group that doesn’t grant any forgiveness.

After I asked why the SEC has very good coaches I realized two of them (that I know of) came with baggage.

 

[kkott]

That’s the problem with the future, usually can’t be certain. Best you can do is collect as much information as you can (as you always suggest) and make a decision that minimizes your assessed risk. I’m with you, very regretful about that one incident and a group that doesn’t grant any forgiveness.

After I asked why the SEC has very good coaches I realized two of them (that I know of) came with baggage.

Golden at UF has isses too, so more than 2. Thought someone said the guy at MSU also has some baggage? Maybe drinking issues too? Can't remember.

 

[CriticArisen]

Golden at UF has isses too, so more than 2. Thought someone said the guy at MSU also has some baggage? Maybe drinking issues too? Can't remember.

Yeah. I wasn’t sure but doesn’t surprise me.