Do you really want a secure border?

[Univee2]

Seriously, do you really want a secure border for the US? Are you content with a porous border that allows people to enter the United States illegally? Are you not the least bit concerned with those who would violate our laws, use medical and other resources for residents of this country, who would commit crimes and, thus, steal from the citizens of this country?

Where does it stop? Do we allow everyone to enter? Do you lock your doors, secure your property, safeguard your on-line accounts and financials? I’d bet you probably do. Yet, some people seem to believe we let everybody in everywhere. No restrictions. Laws? We don’t need no stinkin‘ laws.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I opened this thinking you wanted a serious discussion. My mistake.

 

[T.M.P.]

Seriously, do you really want a secure border for the US? Are you content with a porous border that allows people to enter the United States illegally? Are you not the least bit concerned with those who would violate our laws, use medical and other resources for residents of this country, who would commit crimes and, thus, steal from the citizens of this country?

Where does it stop? Do we allow everyone to enter? Do you lock your doors, secure your property, safeguard your on-line accounts and financials? I’d bet you probably do. Yet, some people seem to believe we let everybody in everywhere. No restrictions. Laws? We don’t need no stinkin‘ laws.

The caravans are coming!!

Hide the banjos and pork rinds!!

Oh noes!!!

 

[Crayfish57]

The caravans are coming!!

Hide the banjos and pork rinds!!

Oh noes!!!

Dumb

 

[IU_Hickory]

Seriously, do you really want a secure border for the US? Are you content with a porous border that allows people to enter the United States illegally? Are you not the least bit concerned with those who would violate our laws, use medical and other resources for residents of this country, who would commit crimes and, thus, steal from the citizens of this country?

Where does it stop? Do we allow everyone to enter? Do you lock your doors, secure your property, safeguard your on-line accounts and financials? I’d bet you probably do. Yet, some people seem to believe we let everybody in everywhere. No restrictions. Laws? We don’t need no stinkin‘ laws.

It is not open. Almost 2 million people have been CAUGHT.


Facts matter. Not your bull crap fiction

 

[DrHoops]

Border policies have hardly changed from Trump to Biden.

 

[Univee2]

I opened this thinking you wanted a serious discussion. My mistake.

Okay, we’re going to put you and Mr. Charlie down as idiot deflectors.

It’s a legitimate question but, as usual, people won’t/can’t move from their entrenched positions.

I’d like to see us secure the border and have a rational, comprehensive immigration policy that provides opportunities for legitimate immigrants to become citizens of the U.S.

But, you all do you, play your little games and be unserious. It’s not a good look, but, then, you do you from your basement.

 

[Univee2]

The caravans are coming!!

Hide the banjos and pork rinds!!

Oh noes!!!

You really need to go back to your rice, Zippy.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Okay, we’re going to put you and Mr. Charlie down as idiot deflectors.

It’s a legitimate question but, as usual, people won’t/can’t move from their entrenched positions.

I’d like to see us secure the border and have a rational, comprehensive immigration policy that provides opportunities for legitimate immigrants to become citizens of the U.S.

But, you all do you, play your little games and be unserious. It’s not a good look, but, then, you do you from your basement.

What border policies have changed since Trump?

Do you even have anything to back up your bs or just on here spouting off your baseless propaganda?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Okay, we’re going to put you and Mr. Charlie down as idiot deflectors.

It’s a legitimate question but, as usual, people won’t/can’t move from their entrenched positions.

I’d like to see us secure the border and have a rational, comprehensive immigration policy that provides opportunities for legitimate immigrants to become citizens of the U.S.

But, you all do you, play your little games and be unserious. It’s not a good look, but, then, you do you from your basement.

Your thread title was a legitimate question. Your post was hyperpartisan nonsense that can't reasonably be responded to because you are attacking the readers you are supposedly asking the question to before they even have a chance to answer.

 

[mcmurtry66]

It is not open. Almost 2 million people have been CAUGHT.


Facts matter. Not your bull crap fiction

Facts matter but I’m certain you don’t have any. Biden certainly sounded inviting to immigrants with his 11 million people or whatever it was. We know the people at our border has spiked. Doesn’t have to be “a policy.” Could be inviting rhetoric. Could be messaging. Are we prosecuting these people? Are prosecutions up or down under Biden? What about barriers. Are we building more or did we just divert funding from the wall to troll pubs.
This is a mess. And did we plan for any of this? Doesn’t seem like a stretch to think Covid would put a greater strain on strained countries and people. If I was looking into the hungry eyes of my little brown soccer player I might ask him if he’s up for an adventure If there’s no physical barrier and the worst consequence is getting sent back

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Facts matter but I’m certain you don’t have any. Biden certainly sounded inviting to immigrants with his 11 million people or whatever it was. We know the people at our border has spiked. Doesn’t have to be “a policy.” Could be inviting rhetoric. Could be messaging. Are we prosecuting these people? Are prosecutions up or down under Biden? What about barriers. Are we building more or did we just divert funding from the wall to troll pubs.
This is a mess. And did we plan for any of this? Doesn’t seem like a stretch to think Covid would put a greater strain on strained countries and people. If I was looking into the hungry eyes of my little brown soccer player I might ask him if he’s up for an adventure If there’s no physical barrier and the worst consequence is getting sent back

There is little doubt that potential migrants in numerous countries feel that they have a better chance at staying in America under Biden, but it's not rhetoric. Our state department has been consistently and repeatedly telling them not to come. I don't know how much these people pay attention to American politics, but they seem convinced that the change from Trump to Biden meant they would have an easier time getting here. I suspect it has little to do with anything any American official says, or anything they read in the local Guatemalan newspaper. Most likely, it's just the bastards who prey on these people and charge for help getting over the border spreading the word that it's easier now, and regular folks eating it up, because they want it to be true.

As for planning for it, my understanding is that our immigration and customs enforcement and processing capacity has been overmaxed for years, now. We want to fix that, Congress needs to get off its ass and agree to some genuine immigration reform. Let's combine permanent status for DACA folks, with limited amnesty for certain categories (I'm thinking people who have steady jobs and family in the country, and with no criminal history), along with a bazillion dollars for new walls or other barriers where helpful, plenty of new personnel for other places, and a bunch of new immigration judges to get these people through the system.

 

[mcmurtry66]

There is little doubt that potential migrants in numerous countries feel that they have a better chance at staying in America under Biden, but it's not rhetoric. Our state department has been consistently and repeatedly telling them not to come. I don't know how much these people pay attention to American politics, but they seem convinced that the change from Trump to Biden meant they would have an easier time getting here. I suspect it has little to do with anything any American official says, or anything they read in the local Guatemalan newspaper. Most likely, it's just the bastards who prey on these people and charge for help getting over the border spreading the word that it's easier now, and regular folks eating it up, because they want it to be true.

As for planning for it, my understanding is that our immigration and customs enforcement and processing capacity has been overmaxed for years, now. We want to fix that, Congress needs to get off its ass and agree to some genuine immigration reform. Let's combine permanent status for DACA folks, with limited amnesty for certain categories (I'm thinking people who have steady jobs and family in the country, and with no criminal history), along with a bazillion dollars for new walls or other barriers where helpful, plenty of new personnel for other places, and a bunch of new immigration judges to get these people through the system.

Agreed on all counts

 

[UncleMark]

I’d like to see us secure the border and have a rational, comprehensive immigration policy that provides opportunities for legitimate immigrants to become citizens of the U.S.

Don't we all. Now, let's hear some specifics.

Let's lock it down completely, to start. Then we start making exceptions to that policy. And that's where the trouble lies. Who gets to be the exception? Why? And how many?

Me, I'm good with letting in as many as we can absorb without them being a burden. But even that is problematic. Forget the easy stuff like no welfare, no food stamps, no unemployment. Do we not allow their kids to go to school? Do we let them die in emergency rooms?

When my wife immigrated, I was responsible for her financially for several years until such time as she had the conditions removed from her permanent residency. That might work for those who had established family or friends already here. But there's all kinds of things that can and will come up.

 

[Spartans9312]

Don't we all. Now, let's hear some specifics.

Let's lock it down completely, to start. Then we start making exceptions to that policy. And that's where the trouble lies. Who gets to be the exception? Why? And how many?

Me, I'm good with letting in as many as we can absorb without them being a burden. But even that is problematic. Forget the easy stuff like no welfare, no food stamps, no unemployment. Do we not allow their kids to go to school? Do we let them die in emergency rooms?

When my wife immigrated, I was responsible for her financially for several years until such time as she had the conditions removed from her permanent residency. That might work for those who had established family or friends already here. But there's all kinds of things that can and will come up.

The media will not allow a secure border.
The media will not allow welfare reform.
The media will not allow….

Our politicians are so afraid of heart darts that they will not even attempt to fix these problems.

Heart darts are the death of politicians.

 

[Bill4411]

Maybe we need to quit hiring so many foreign laborers who do so much of the actual work in our country? Ex: Farm laborers, construction workers, hotel cleaning staffs, seems like our dirty little secret.

 

[UncleMark]

Maybe we need to quit hiring so many foreign laborers who do so much of the actual work in our country? Ex: Farm laborers, construction workers, hotel cleaning staffs, seems like our dirty little secret.

Those sectors would be gutted. How about we get them legal so they can fully participate in society, and maybe even be the legal bridge for new immigrants?

 

[twenty02]

Seriously, do you really want a secure border for the US? Are you content with a porous border that allows people to enter the United States illegally? Are you not the least bit concerned with those who would violate our laws, use medical and other resources for residents of this country, who would commit crimes and, thus, steal from the citizens of this country?

Where does it stop? Do we allow everyone to enter? Do you lock your doors, secure your property, safeguard your on-line accounts and financials? I’d bet you probably do. Yet, some people seem to believe we let everybody in everywhere. No restrictions. Laws? We don’t need no stinkin‘ laws.

People from both parties have been attempting to pass comprehensive immigration reform for over two decades.... but every time it comes up the lunatics on the right shout AMNESTY! And it collapses. The immigration laws and subsequent enforcement in this country are badly outdated, but until there is some willingness to compromise this will continue to be a political football with more and more juvenile stunts like we saw this week.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Those sectors would be gutted. How about we get them legal so they can fully participate in society, and maybe even be the legal bridge for new immigrants?

I think "getting them legal" is the hard part. How do we do that? What does that look like? A paper submission? An online submission? It can't be hearings. It can't be anything involved. I don't know anything about immigration law. I know hundreds of lawyers. I know exactly one immigration abogado. There are probably 100,000 criminal cases pending in the us dist courts. maybe less. There are 2 million illegals entering a year. Probably 15-20 million floating around the US already. Logistics, labor, etc. are a monumental obstacle. Who is going to oversee such a thing? Hell our young dept heads don't want to work.

 

[UncleMark]

I think "getting them legal" is the hard part. How do we do that? What does that look like? A paper submission? An online submission? It can't be hearings. It can't be anything involved. I don't know anything about immigration law. I know hundreds of lawyers. I know exactly one immigration abogado. There are probably 100,000 criminal cases pending in the us dist courts. maybe less. There are 2 million illegals entering a year. Probably 15-20 million floating around the US already. Logistics, labor, etc. are a monumental obstacle. Who is going to oversee such a thing? Hell our young dept heads don't want to work.

There can't be any money in immigration law. It would have to be funded by the government, like public defenders. Probably could use paralegals and administrative law judges for most of it. But it would take substantial funding to do it right.

 

[mcmurtry66]

There can't be any money in immigration law. It would have to be funded by the government, like public defenders. Probably could use paralegals and administrative law judges for most of it. But it would take substantial funding to do it right.

yes i think you would have to run it almost like the social security disability process with aljs. social security has 60,000 employees ice has 20,000. you'd have to probably do it like disability where the vast majority are approved/denied on paper submissions and hearings are reserved for a fraction of applicants. otherwise it's too burdensome

 

[dbmhoosier]

This is what happens because the Democrats refuse to do their job. But vote blue no matter who.

 

[cosmickid]

This is what happens because the Democrats refuse to do their job. But vote blue no matter who.

View embedded media

So why aren't the Republicans who maintain they want a secure border leaping at the chance to sign on for the comprehensive bill co-authored by one of the most Conservative,Biden hating members of the Senate, Langford of Oklahoma? Why is someone like Dan Crenshaw (who hails from Texas btw) calling out his GOP House colleasgues for opposing what he labels the best bill Conservatives are ever going to get on the Border?

A Senate approval of legislation like the Border deal requires 60 votes. There is no way the Pubs are ever going to get 60 yes votes to whatever legislation Trump imagines he could concoct in his fever dream of a 2nd Presidency. So when these GOP Senators say that the current bill offers them the best possible outcome and provisions they could ever hope for, they know exactly where they are coming from. Even Todd Young who I disagree with on many issues says it would be ridiculous to allow Trump to scuttle this deal...



And scuttle the deal for his own political expediency is exactly what Trump wants to do. I just wonder why anyone with a functioning brain would somehow think Trump (who couldn't find El Salvador or Guatemala on a map) knows more about the relevant issues than members of Congress who aren't interested in Trump's political fortunes and only want to work for their constituents...

I guess in a sense you can't blame him. He knows his only possibility of sstaying out of jail is to do whatever he can to try and win the election...

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

This is what happens because the Democrats refuse to do their job. But vote blue no matter who.

View embedded media

In this case, it's not the Democrats failing to do their job.

 

[Ohio Guy]

In this case, it's not the Democrats failing to do their job.

Yep. I just read that Mike Johnson told House Republicans that the bill was dead on arrival before even seeing it. Giving them the benefit of the doubt (and having not read it myself), maybe it wouldn't go far enough for some conservatives. But dismissing what another poster here quoted as the best deal on the border conservatives are going to get without looking at it seems almost a dereliction of duty.

 

[GigGoo]

So why aren't the Republicans who maintain they want a secure border leaping at the chance to sign on for the comprehensive bill co-authored by one of the most Conservative,Biden hating members of the Senate, Langford of Oklahoma? Why is someone like Dan Crenshaw (who hails from Texas btw) calling out his GOP House colleasgues for opposing what he labels the best bill Conservatives are ever going to get on the Border?

A Senate approval of legislation like the Border deal requires 60 votes. There is no way the Pubs are ever going to get 60 yes votes to whatever legislation Trump imagines he could concoct in his fever dream of a 2nd Presidency. So when these GOP Senators say that the current bill offers them the best possible outcome and provisions they could ever hope for, they know exactly where they are coming from. Even Todd Young who I disagree with on many issues says it would be ridiculous to allow Trump to scuttle this deal...

View embedded media

And scuttle the deal for his own political expediency is exactly what Trump wants to do. I just wonder why anyone with a functioning brain would somehow think Trump (who couldn't find El Salvador or Guatemala on a map) knows more about the relevant issues than members of Congress who aren't interested in Trump's political fortunes and only want to work for their constituents...

I guess in a sense you can't blame him. He knows his only possibility of sstaying out of jail is to do whatever he can to try and win the election...

View embedded media

Stop touting this stupid ****ing bill. No one has seen it, and when we do, I’m pretty sure Republican opponents will be vindicated .

 

[dbmhoosier]

The Democratic Party.

 

[BradStevens]

In this case, it's not the Democrats failing to do their job.

Republicans claim Biden’s admin isn’t doing enough to enforce the current laws and is allowing more people to cross illegally than would be able to under Trump. I get this from CoHs posts.

Is that right?

If so, what does an immigration bill have to do with their concerns?

I’m not sure I’ve seen CoH specifically point to a policy change Biden had put into place that allows more illegal entry or release, but I’m all ears, even if I have no way to judge border security efficacy.

 

[zeke4ahs]

This is what happens because the Democrats refuse to do their job. But vote blue no matter who.

View embedded media

No, what is happening is that even though the border is such an emergency, the Republicans refuse to do THEIR job, and work on a border bill. Why? Because their fearless leader DOnnie won’t let them. And believe me, as long as Republicans are the party of Trump? I will indeed vote blue no matter who. Get rid of the scourge in your party.

 

[zeke4ahs]

The Democratic Party.

View embedded media

Can we deport all the January 6 insurrectionists who assaulted the police?

 

[Sope Creek]

Seriously, do you really want a secure border for the US? Are you content with a porous border that allows people to enter the United States illegally? Are you not the least bit concerned with those who would violate our laws, use medical and other resources for residents of this country, who would commit crimes and, thus, steal from the citizens of this country?

Where does it stop? Do we allow everyone to enter? Do you lock your doors, secure your property, safeguard your on-line accounts and financials? I’d bet you probably do. Yet, some people seem to believe we let everybody in everywhere. No restrictions. Laws? We don’t need no stinkin‘ laws.

Will (Ron) Mexico be paying for it?

If not, how much will it cost?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

The Democratic Party.

View embedded media

And isn't it Ironic.... Don't ya think..... Life has a funny way of sneaking up on you. .....

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Republicans claim Biden’s admin isn’t doing enough to enforce the current laws and is allowing more people to cross illegally than would be able to under Trump. I get this from CoHs posts.

Is that right?

If so, what does an immigration bill have to do with their concerns?

I’m not sure I’ve seen CoH specifically point to a policy change Biden had put into place that allows more illegal entry or release, but I’m all ears, even if I have no way to judge border security efficacy.

You are right that he hasn't actually pointed to specific policy changes. It always boils down to some vague charge about rhetoric. Same as it does with fossil fuels.

Not to yank my own crank, but I'm pretty sure I already correctly solved this thread a year and a half ago.

Do you really want a secure border?

Seriously, do you really want a secure border for the US? Are you content with a porous border that allows people to enter the United States illegally? Are you not the least bit concerned with those who would violate our laws, use medical and other resources for residents of this country, who...

indiana.forums.rivals.com

 

[twenty02]

If an immigrant turns themselves into border patrol, claims asylum under our current asylum laws and is then released into the country with a future court date... are they really illegal? Seems even the Trump administration ran into legal issues due to these laws... many of which never reached a final conclusion re: remain in Mexico, etc...

Many of these festering interpretation issues of very dated and vague laws re: asylum could be cleaned up with appropriate legislation.

 

[mcmurtry66]

If an immigrant turns themselves into border patrol, claims asylum under our current asylum laws and is then released into the country with a future court date... are they really illegal? Seems even the Trump administration ran into legal issues due to these laws... many of which never reached a final conclusion re: remain in Mexico, etc...

Many of these festering interpretation issues of very dated and vague laws re: asylum could be cleaned up with appropriate legislation.

They have temporary protected status. You can enter lawfully and still end up illegal as well as I’m sure you know. Expiration etc

Temp status is one of the things Biden expanded

I’m curious what tabs are kept on them and how many appear for court. I know nothing about that system

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

It is not open. Almost 2 million people have been CAUGHT.


Facts matter. Not your bull crap fiction

dumb

 

[mcmurtry66]

dumb

He’s incredibly dumb

 

[IU_Hickory]

dumb

Fact