Do we still need the whistleblower?
- Thread starter Rockfish1
- Start date
They are.
As are so many other things he's done. He was impeachable the day he took the oath of office i.e. his violation of the Emoluments Clause.
Whether or not what he has done and is doing is impeachable is not the question. The question is, when is what he has done and is doing egregious and politically damaging enough that his enabling GOP rats are ready to jump overboard from his ship.
Trump’s strategy of committing crimes out in the open seems to work with his base though. They still believe that if he’s doing it publicly, it couldn’t possibly be illegal or immoral. Discrediting the whistleblower while publicly continuing to ask for foreign election interference will give him cover with people looking for excuses not to care about his treasonous actions.
It depends on the final goal. I think we have clearly crossed the line for the House to impeach. Like 20 said in his thread, I never thought we were going to get to impeachment from Mueller. I think we are already passed that point here.
But for the Senate to convict? I am not sure anything can move the Senate. So maybe it is not worth waiting, but we sure are not getting a Senate conviction today.
The nice thing about Rudy and Trump, give them a little more rope and they may do the job themselves.
Here's our future:
François Duvalier (French pronunciation: [fʁɑ̃swa dyvalje]; 14 April 1907 – 21 April 1971), also known as Papa Doc (Daddy Doc), was the President of Haiti from 1957 to 1971. He was elected president in 1957 on a populist and black nationalist platform. After thwarting a military coup d'état in 1958, his regime rapidly became totalitarian and despotic. An undercover government death squad, the Tonton Macoute, indiscriminately killed Duvalier's opponents, and it was thought to be so pervasive that Haitians became highly fearful of expressing any form of dissent, even in private. Duvalier further sought to solidify his rule by incorporating elements of Haitian mythology into a personality cult.
Prior to his rule, Duvalier was a physician by profession. His profession and expertise in the field acquired him the nickname "Papa Doc". He was unanimously "re-elected" in a 1961 election in which he was the only candidate. Afterwards, he consolidated his power step by step, culminating in 1964 when he declared himself President for Life after another faulty election, and he remained in power until he died in April 1971. He was succeeded by his son, Jean‑Claude, who was nicknamed "Baby Doc".
François Duvalier (French pronunciation: [fʁɑ̃swa dyvalje]; 14 April 1907 – 21 April 1971), also known as Papa Doc (Daddy Doc), was the President of Haiti from 1957 to 1971. He was elected president in 1957 on a populist and black nationalist platform. After thwarting a military coup d'état in 1958, his regime rapidly became totalitarian and despotic. An undercover government death squad, the Tonton Macoute, indiscriminately killed Duvalier's opponents, and it was thought to be so pervasive that Haitians became highly fearful of expressing any form of dissent, even in private. Duvalier further sought to solidify his rule by incorporating elements of Haitian mythology into a personality cult.
Prior to his rule, Duvalier was a physician by profession. His profession and expertise in the field acquired him the nickname "Papa Doc". He was unanimously "re-elected" in a 1961 election in which he was the only candidate. Afterwards, he consolidated his power step by step, culminating in 1964 when he declared himself President for Life after another faulty election, and he remained in power until he died in April 1971. He was succeeded by his son, Jean‑Claude, who was nicknamed "Baby Doc".
Undoubtedly Trumpbots can turn on a dime from denying collusion to defending it, but they'll say and believe anything, so at least for the foreseeable future, they're a hopeless waste of space. If there are enough of them that reality doesn't matter, then we're all just f#cked.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m worried about.
Now we learn tonight that tRump's reason for removing the Ukranian ambassador this Spring was that she was interfering with Rudy's (not a government official) efforts to persuade the Ukrainians to investigate the Biden's. There's another impeachable offense to add to the list.
The hits just keep on coming.
Edit: Source
The hits just keep on coming.
Edit: Source
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I have a hard time imagining this Republican Party removing Trump from office, even if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue. He knows his base. They're hopeless. The House has to impeach him, though. He's almost literally begging for it.
We're in the territory where I think impeachment has gone from appropriate to mandatory. If, as we all expect, the Republican Senate fails its duty, I want to make the GOP own that, and my objective in the war against that GOP was best stated in 150 B.C. by the famous Roman politician Cato the Censor: Carthago delenda est.
Or, as I more delicately put it here, decent people should not vote Republican.
I am similarly minded but, it might just take 2 good hones Republican Senators. If two break, I think the dam will burst.
Mind you, Diogenes started searching for an honest Republican in the Senate 2000 years ago and to date has found none. So confidence is not high. But there is always a chance Rudy or Trump will say something so moronic that they have no choice.
How many 'senators from the Purple states are in play next year? If any.
As 538 says today, we probably won't see it's happening until it is.
That's probably right. At the moment, 538 says Trump's job approval has ticked down to 41 percent, still buoyed by what Gallup says is a job approval rating of 87 percent among Republicans. Be interesting to watch those numbers. Maybe.
Id argue between 7-10 competitive seats held by Rs.
20 is a monumental number imo.
The problem is that Trump controls the Republican party. The base is Trump, not these shmoes. Whoever he endorses in the primary is who wins. If they throw Trump out, not only do the 2020 candidates worry, but so do the 2022's. I can't even imagine the kind of hell Trump would unleash on them. Might see people with pitchforks outside their offices.
It's possible that the 25th is more likely than an impeachment conviction, wherein Trump does something so erratic that Pence and the cabinet are forced to react, long before the house and senate could possibly act.
Like any con-man, there are limits to the perception of confidence. Ultimately it will be the pocketbook that will crack that veneer.
That's sort of the point of the article. The Dems aren't going to gradually build up the 20 GOP Senators they need. It will be almost none, or it will be an avalanche, and we will only see the avalanche coming when those red state Senators up for election turn on him en masse, and they will only do that when they feel it is safe to do so.
A good early barometer might be major pro-Trump media outlets. If Fox turns on Trump, that would provide cover for GOP officials who already want to turn on him, but are scared to do so.
I think the reason we need the whistlblower to come forward and testify is so that he can produce the names of the people who confided in him. Imo, that type of corroborating evidence from people within the Admin is the key to getting "Sane" GOP Senators on board and at least being able to present the public with a bipartisan consensus of some sort...
It's highly unlikely we could ever get to the 2/3 necessary to convict. But if just a few rational Republicans are courageous enough to vote yes (if warranted) then Independents/ middle voters will be more inclined to dismiss Trump's claims that it was a "witch hunt".
Twenty-five percent or so were still with Nixon as he flew away in disgrace and it will be the same with Trump. We just need to build a consensus of people disgusted by his abuse of power and disregard of his Constitutionally defined duties...
If senators are not going to flip, why would his hand picked lackeys?
I think the most likely manner that Trump is gone is he does something so outrageous that there is literally no choice. He is losing it mentally by the day. That would be the quick end imo. Not 20 senators flipping.
Examples: lunging at a reporting, threatening on national tv to have a reporter killed, etc. These aren't impossible.
I've been listening to a bunch of wingnutty talk radio recently. Rush, Kilmeade, Levin, etc. It's not going to happen. Callers are already fed up with republicans not named trump. They throw trump out and a senator will be killed.
Look through the cabinet and let me know who would vote to remove because a reporter was threatened?
No man, thats his 4D Chess he is playing. He is still working on draining the swamp. He is coming to get you, you swampy heretic!!
FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!
Please Jesus, if you exist, give Lord Donald Jesus Trump another four more years to rid DC of all its evils.
Your humble servant,
SgLowrider
An overt utterance of "I'm going to have you killed" would see all of them vote to remove. I know it's farfetched, but the man is completely losing it. He's psychotic and unhinged. Could be schizophrenic.
Polls will be the whole ballgame. If the IRS whistleblower has anything on the Administration interfering with tax audits, that will be all she wrote. People understand that and won't like it.
I think you are underestimating the tenacity of Donald The Cockroach Trump. Having four to six previous bankruptcy declarations would have killed most mortal men.... not The Cockroach Trump.
Or overestimating the common sense of the American public. But I think Trump is making a mistake keeping this mess at the top of the news every day and people will want it and him to all go away sooner or later.
I think Republican Senators might realize one thing, Mike Pence for President will keep evangelicals on board. While they may lose the white nationalist right, they would gain back never Trumpers.
So the calculation becomes simple. How much do they want to risk their game 7 pitcher being a total wildcard, or would they rather have the less flashy choice in Pence. While Trump might have a better chance at winning the presidency, his wild card act might lose AND cost the GOP more Senate seats than a Pence loss would.
I really doubt the Senate would vote to convict. But if senators fear Trump is so damaged he cannot get above 42%, they may well opt out. If the GOP runs -10 or more down ballot, they will lose the Senate. Pence would not win, but might get to 46% or so. That might keep Mitch in his spot. Ford got 48% with the impeachment of Nixon, a badly struggling economy, and the fall of South Vietnam.
So the calculation becomes simple. How much do they want to risk their game 7 pitcher being a total wildcard, or would they rather have the less flashy choice in Pence. While Trump might have a better chance at winning the presidency, his wild card act might lose AND cost the GOP more Senate seats than a Pence loss would.
I really doubt the Senate would vote to convict. But if senators fear Trump is so damaged he cannot get above 42%, they may well opt out. If the GOP runs -10 or more down ballot, they will lose the Senate. Pence would not win, but might get to 46% or so. That might keep Mitch in his spot. Ford got 48% with the impeachment of Nixon, a badly struggling economy, and the fall of South Vietnam.
If we had all taken Trump seriously enough we would have been talking about impeachment prior to swearing him in. Trump was and is so transparently a catastrophic train wreck for our democracy that would have been the right thing to do...and not just for the country...for the GOP as well.
Let's review. The GOP should have stopped him from having a shot at winning their nomination. Then they should have supported Hillary over Trump. Then they should have immediately impeached him and replaced him with Pence. ... Now they should let Pence know that he should resign and be replaced by...whom? Say Ryan or some other serious Republican. Then they should tell Trump that he will be impeached and convicted unless he resigns immediately. Then they should impeach. They did none of those things and they won't do any of those things. Instead they will ride the Trump train until he and they are put out of office via election or our couple hundred year experiment in self-government is ended.
The GOP long ago stopped acting in the best interests of the country choosing instead to leverage identity politics in the hopes of protecting and elevating the absurd levels of wealth that have been accumulated by oligarch and oligarch wannabes both here and abroad. The entire GOP deserves consignment to the ash heap of history.
Should the GOP in its current form disintegrate, by the way, that event will also consign the Democratic party in its current form to the same ash heap since it only exists in its present form by virtue of its juxtaposition to the current GOP.
I suspect there will be an avalanche of folks who will start claiming that they never liked him nor voted for that slimebag fairly soon.
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