Dakich - “RMK mailed it in, last few seasons”

[hookyIU1990]

Ah, somebody is out of sorts. Didn’t intend to point out your ignorance.

Nope. Just amazed that you keep making assertions which are easily proven wrong. Like your claim that I didn't know Palombizio went to purdue, when you literally quoted me saying that he called leaving purdue a mistake. That's what I mean when I say "keep digging". When proven wrong, you double down on the claims that the person who proves it isn't really a fan or is a new fan or lacks some sort knowledge. That's the "clown" part of it.

 

[F.Fletch]

I was in middle school back then, not really processing much about Ball State.



Dan followed suit and became a helicopter parent of his own.



He wasn't good enough to play in the B1G.



Mike likes to tell people when we're around each other than I thought he wasn't good enough to play for the team I coached. (LaMont Roland, LSU; Travis Best, Louisville; Andrew Graves, Butler; Jimmie Metcalfe, Indiana State) While he was really good, I wasn't cutting any of those guys. He had to play a year up back then, so when he could finally play in his own age group at 17U, my group was pretty set at the guard and wings. (We were pretty damn good.)

When Lewis committed to Indiana, I was surprised. I didn't think he would be good enough to play, just as I thought Butler (MCC conference back then) was a great fit for Graves (who followed in his brother's footsteps). However, Lewis really changed his approach to playing. Lewis is the great example of doing what he needed to do to get on the court, and at no point could anyone question his toughness or IQ.

His scoring wasn't going to translate in the B1G, and I didn't see him really make his teammates better in high school.

He had an odd career at IU, graduating as Indiana's all-time assists leader, only starting 66 of 126 games, including just 19 of his 29 games his senior year, and along with Guyton, they were the first group to not win a B1G title under Knight. He played on some strange teams, and in a lot of ways he was the constant, the glue.

He had a good senior year, and I always felt in his last two years he needed to be way more aggressive.


I'm glad he found success at UCLA.

Umm, Travis Best went to Georgia Tech.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Palombizio wouldn't have lasted one season in Bloomington anyways, so it was for the best he went elsewhere. He would have been Whittman and Kitch's gopher.

It was obvious during the last few years of RMK, things were on the downside. Recruiting slipped a notch, but even more damaging was the fact that his big recruiting wins (Recker, Collier, Reed) weren't lasting in the program (or in other cases- Patterson- weren't developing to their potential). And yes, society was changing, especially our youth and their expectations/demands (not necessarily for the better) and RMK's style wasn't as appealing to the some of the AAU primadonnas.

Saddening is that those last few 'down' years are now what we hold as benchmark for CAM 'turning the corner' with the program. A 20-12 (9-9 B1G) and first round exit in the big tourney would be a 'step forward' to most today. Ouch.

Just realized something trivial but creepy- those 3 major players who left (Recker- Collier-Reed)- two have already left us way too early, and the other (Recker) was in the bad Colorado accident and almost got killed himself.

The true 'decline' of this program begin after Bailey's last yr in 1994.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Am I the only one who's thinking: "What do you mean he didn't do well in the northern part of the state: we snagged Dakich out of Andrean didn't we?" Yes, I'm probably the only one thinking that. Tongue firmly in cheek.

I thought that too...RMK landed the great Dan Dakich, smack dab in the heart of da Region.

 

[hookyIU1990]

He wasn't good enough to play in the B1G.

I'm not disagreeing at all. Just kind of crazy to rack up those stats and honors then end up at BSU through a series of decisions he made to play at 3 schools and leave 2 of them

 

[Birnk403]

Nope. Just amazed that you keep making assertions which are easily proven wrong. Like your claim that I didn't know Palombizio went to purdue, when you literally quoted me saying that he called leaving purdue a mistake. That's what I mean when I say "keep digging". When proven wrong, you double down on the claims that the person who proves it isn't really a fan or is a new fan or lacks some sort knowledge. That's the "clown" part of it.

You only referenced Purdue after I pointed out to you that he went there first before ending up at BSU. You weren’t aware.

DP and his dad had a disasterous meeting with BK that resulted in his offer to IU being pulled. They wanted assurances from BK regarding how he would be used and the amount of time he would receive. BK was not pleased. It ended angrily and DP was no longer an IU recruit. Ask DD. He was there and saw BK’s reaction / aftermath.

You came here trying to start an argument because of some slight you haven’t gotten over yet. You occasionally demonstrate your lingering hurt by trying to paint me as a Purdue fan, which makes you look even dumber. In reading your posts, you exhibit nothing that suggests you are knowledgable about the IU program, past or present. Is there anything else you need?

 

[Bloom.]

His core class profile was going to make admittance to IU extremely difficult, if not impossible. I think he also displayed what BK interpreted as a lack of respect (he slouched, wore a ball cap indoors, which was a no-no for BK), and it pissed him off and led to an adversarial atmosphere. You’re right, it was not a good meeting.

With some of the players who have gotten in, they would've figured it out. Not sure it would've lasted.

My understanding of the meeting was Robinson didn't stand up when Knight walked in his office. It wasn't a heated lecture, just a lecture.

Umm, Travis Best went to Georgia Tech.

Umm...there are multiple Travis Bests. This one graduated from Frankfort in 1997, was an Indiana all-star and went Louisville, then transferred to Purdue before finishing at Marian.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Keep digging, clown.

I'm sure it is OrdFan you are referring to. Believe me, you're best option is to put him on ignore.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Am I the only one who's thinking: "What do you mean he didn't do well in the northern part of the state: we snagged Dakich out of Andrean didn't we?" Yes, I'm probably the only one thinking that. Tongue firmly in cheek.

But. . .But . . the great Dakich held MJ down!!!!

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

because of my local proximity at the time, we knew some people who were in (or close) to the Keady inner circle, and word is that few in the program were distraught when DP left Purdue. In their own words ..."the kid is a total flake".

 

[Birnk403]

With some of the players who have gotten in, they would've figured it out. Not sure it would've lasted.

My understanding of the meeting was Robinson didn't stand up when Knight walked in his office. It wasn't a heated lecture, just a lecture.



Umm...there are multiple Travis Bests. This one graduated from Frankfort in 1997, was an Indiana all-star and went Louisville, then transferred to Purdue before finishing at Marian.

They might well have figured it out, but he needed at least one more year of high school math in order to be considered for admission. Without it, he was a definite “no”. And I don’t think that was the only subject in which he was deficient.

Have heard several versions related to his “decorum”. He didn’t stand, he wore a hat, he slouched, he had his feet up on something. BK thought he was disrespectful.

 

[Birnk403]

because of my local proximity at the time, we knew some people who were in (or close) to the Keady inner circle, and word is that few in the program were distraught when DP left Purdue. In their own words ..."the kid is a total flake".

I don’t think many / any of his teammates shed tears over it.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

because of my local proximity at the time, we knew some people who were in (or close) to the Keady inner circle, and word is that few in the program were distraught when DP left Purdue. In their own words ..."the kid is a total flake".

I had friends from Ball State who had him in some of their classes who said the exact same thing.

 

[Birnk403]

I'm sure it is OrdFan you are referring to. Believe me, you're best option is to put him on ignore.

Ah, the “he’s Ordfan” excuse. Always the ultimate sign of weakness. Well done, Tas. Lol

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

my younger brother played against Glenn their Sr year and guarded him. My brother loves to brag how he held Glenn to only 7. But not 7 points....7 monster dunks. One of which was so forceful, with my brother's face in the wrong place at the wrong time, that it was reminiscent of the Rick James/Charlie Murphy Unity ring incident. Glenn was a man among boys in high school.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

More to this just the Prop 48 issue. Knight lectured him during a visit. I'm guessing Robinson didn't yet have an offer, which I'm thinking the visit was to meet and extend the offer. The meeting didn't go well.

I never heard all the details on the recruitment, but I did know they prioritized Henderson over him. Alan wasn't as good a talent as Big Dog, but was still pretty damn good - and a solid student/person. Whereas Robinson didn't stand when Knight entered (supposedly), Alan would have been on his feet.

That doesn't mean Robinson was a bad kid. He was just from a different background; Henderson fit what Knight valued in a recruit more. And don't forget, Knight had to really fight to get him over Duke.

Still, would have loved to had Big Dog in B-town. His dunk over Brian Gilpin (one-time IU commit) in the 1990 HoF Classic is the best dunk I've ever seen. The camera doesn't really show just how much the basketball standard shook - the wire going to the top of the Fieldhouse were flexing (See dunk at 9:03).

 

[hookyIU1990]

I'm sure it is OrdFan you are referring to. Believe me, you're best option is to put him on ignore.

I took him off of ignore earlier in the week, along with a couple of other obvious trolls, should have known better. I put him back on. Legend in his own mind.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I took him off of ignore earlier in the week, along with a couple of other obvious trolls, should have known better. I put him back on. Legend in his own mind.

Without question. He's never wrong - just ask him. 😁

 

[Birnk403]

I took him off of ignore earlier in the week, along with a couple of other obvious trolls, should have known better. I put him back on. Legend in his own mind.

As I said, you’re still upset over some perceived slight. Lol

 

[Birnk403]

Without question. He's never wrong - just ask him. 😁

Another pouting poster. Go away. Guys like you ruin this place.

 

[Birnk403]

I never heard all the details on the recruitment, but I did know they prioritized Henderson over him. Alan wasn't as good a talent as Big Dog, but was still pretty damn good - and a solid student/person. Whereas Robinson didn't stand when Knight entered (supposedly), Alan would have been on his feet.

That doesn't mean Robinson was a bad kid. He was just from a different background; Henderson fit what Knight valued in a recruit more. And don't forget, Knight had to really fight to get him over Duke.

Still, would have loved to had Big Dog in B-town. His dunk over Brian Gilpin (one-time IU commit) in the 1990 HoF Classic is the best dunk I've ever seen. The camera doesn't really show just how much the basketball standard shook - the wire going to the top of the Fieldhouse were flexing (See dunk at 9:03).

View embedded media

Henderson was “prioritized”, in large part, because he was nearly the player and not an academic risk.

 

[Crayfish57]

BK not only didn’t like recruiting, he began to do much less of it, and that was impactful to the program. Yes, the talent in Indiana dipped, but there were plenty of kids in Illinois and Ohio, two states where we had done quite well during his time.

What he liked about recruiting was slipping into a high school game, watching some of it to scout a kid, and then getting out before people surrounded him. The recruiting process was changing during that time, and he largely decided to not go along with the changes. He didn’t like the control some high school and definitely aau coaches had, and parents were becoming more prominent on the process, as well. BK had some rather negative encounters with a mom and dad (or two), and fewer kids were as interested in the kind of coaching style he brought to the equation. Consequently, we began to slip.

From a recruiting standpoint, DD is right.

Yes on the slipping in for sure. He slipped in to watch Shawn Kemp when he was a freshman , Not even sure anymore if it was a game or just practice but I saw him in the hall after classes one day.

 

[Orbit7958]

Mailed it in.....
....like Dan Dakich does every show?

you know....you have a bad attitude

I love it

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Brooks, of course, went to and left IU. Palombizio was never good enough for the B1G. Grose wasn't going to help IU, and Jewell was awful. Other than Grose and Skiles, there was some big stat, over rated teams out of Northern Indiana in the mid-late 80's, at a time when most of them coasted to the Semi-state. One of them was bound to make it to the state finals.

IU had Robinson, but Knight's ego got in the way. It's been wondered if it was a test, but Robinson didn't care for the lecture and opted for Purdue.

Cunningham was class of '96, not early 90's, with the McQuays.

Miller was truly a late bloomer, who wasn't able to finish HS in Indiana. He is, however, an illustration how the trajectory of big man development is often skewed. I liked him in HS from a prospect standpoint.

Cornell was such a good kid (not that the others weren't). He was smooth, effortless.

Robinson was not going to be admitted to IU and BK knew that. Not seriously recruited.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I was in middle school back then, not really processing much about Ball State.



Dan followed suit and became a helicopter parent of his own.



He wasn't good enough to play in the B1G.



Mike likes to tell people when we're around each other than I thought he wasn't good enough to play for the team I coached. (LaMont Roland, LSU; Travis Best, Louisville; Andrew Graves, Butler; Jimmie Metcalfe, Indiana State) While he was really good, I wasn't cutting any of those guys. He had to play a year up back then, so when he could finally play in his own age group at 17U, my group was pretty set at the guard and wings. (We were pretty damn good.)

When Lewis committed to Indiana, I was surprised. I didn't think he would be good enough to play, just as I thought Butler (MCC conference back then) was a great fit for Graves (who followed in his brother's footsteps). However, Lewis really changed his approach to playing. Lewis is the great example of doing what he needed to do to get on the court, and at no point could anyone question his toughness or IQ.

His scoring wasn't going to translate in the B1G, and I didn't see him really make his teammates better in high school.

He had an odd career at IU, graduating as Indiana's all-time assists leader, only starting 66 of 126 games, including just 19 of his 29 games his senior year, and along with Guyton, they were the first group to not win a B1G title under Knight. He played on some strange teams, and in a lot of ways he was the constant, the glue.

He had a good senior year, and I always felt in his last two years he needed to be way more aggressive.


I'm glad he found success at UCLA.

I questioned Lewis as well (at IU) but as you say he worked his ass off to close the gaps and he had a good career. Always liked his toughness and grit.

 

[ulrey]

Brooks, of course, went to and left IU. Palombizio was never good enough for the B1G. Grose wasn't going to help IU, and Jewell was awful. Other than Grose and Skiles, there was some big stat, over rated teams out of Northern Indiana in the mid-late 80's, at a time when most of them coasted to the Semi-state. One of them was bound to make it to the state finals.

IU had Robinson, but Knight's ego got in the way. It's been wondered if it was a test, but Robinson didn't care for the lecture and opted for Purdue.

Cunningham was class of '96, not early 90's, with the McQuays.

Miller was truly a late bloomer, who wasn't able to finish HS in Indiana. He is, however, an illustration how the trajectory of big man development is often skewed. I liked him in HS from a prospect standpoint.

Cornell was such a good kid (not that the others weren't). He was smooth, effortless.

Jewell the kid that went to Evansville?

 

[Bloom.]

Jewell the kid that went to Evansville?

Ended up at Evansville.

 

[CriticArisen]

Dakich’s father mailed it in when Dan was conceived.

 

[Columbus-Boiler]

I think there’s some truth to it from a recruiting standpoint. BK hated that and relied heavily on assistants to go see kids in high school and aau games. And he hated the culture that was prioritizing aau coaches over high ones. So, in that regard, I think Dakich is on point.

There are plenty of AWESOME recruiters that aren't great head coaches, I think Davis falls into that category. As for RMK, I think it was pretty clear towards the end he wasn't on his A game, but I think that was a result of being disgusted by the handcuffs placed on him by the administration and him not wanting to adapt.

 

[Birnk403]

There are plenty of AWESOME recruiters that aren't great head coaches, I think Davis falls into that category. As for RMK, I think it was pretty clear towards the end he wasn't on his A game, but I think that was a result of being disgusted by the handcuffs placed on him by the administration and him not wanting to adapt.

I don’t think he had any handcuffs until zero tolerance was announced to give Brand cover after he was nationally slammed by the media for not firing him. BK got pissed at Tom Ehrlich for commenting on the Connie Chung interview and even more pissed when Clarence Doninger tried to act like his boss. But he still did whatever he wanted.

 

[F.Fletch]

I don’t think he had any handcuffs until zero tolerance was announced to give Brand cover after he was nationally slammed by the media for not firing him. BK got pissed at Tom Ehrlich for commenting on the Connie Chung interview and even more pissed when Clarence Doninger tried to act like his boss. But he still did whatever he wanted.

Boy, you might not consider them "handcuffs," but he fought with Doninger on a number of things that Doninger just flat-out ignored for far, far too long.
1. The team's weight room was an absolute joke. Not a recruiting asset at all.
2. They had no strength and conditioning guy devoted to the team. Tim Garl ran their program.
3. His assistants' pay was ridiculously low. Something like 9th or 10th in the conference. I think only Northwestern paid their assistants less. Both Treloar and Davis were making under $100,000 at the time.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I don’t think he had any handcuffs until zero tolerance was announced to give Brand cover after he was nationally slammed by the media for not firing him. BK got pissed at Tom Ehrlich for commenting on the Connie Chung interview and even more pissed when Clarence Doninger tried to act like his boss. But he still did whatever he wanted.

BK handcuffed himself with his behavior.

had he not, he could have been even more successful here than he was.

some players and some parents just didn't want to put up with his sht, (literally), or have their kids exposed to it.

food for thought,

his best recruiting class ever, was his first one here with a full yr to recruit.

counting his actual first yr as well, where he had only a partial yr to recruit, his best two consecutive classes were his 1st two classes here.

and his best 3 consecutive classes were his 1st three here.

in fact, his best 4 consecutive classes signed, were his 1st 4 at IU. (don't forget that Bird was in that 4th class).

yes, he had a couple really good recruiting runs in the late 70s/1980, and early 90s, but RMK's best recruiting success was when he first got here, and his pluses were better publicly known than his downsides.

had he been able to control his demons, IU could have been the nation's dominant program from the time he got here, (and inherited a brand new AH and a great roster), till who knows when.

 

[Radio Zero]

BK handcuffed himself with his behavior.

had he not, he could have been even more successful here than he was.

some players and some parents just didn't want to put up with his sht, (literally), or have their kids exposed to it.

food for thought,

his best recruiting class ever, was his first one here with a full yr to recruit.

counting his actual first yr as well, where he had only a partial yr to recruit, his best two consecutive classes based on quality per recruit, not size of class, where his 1st two classes here.

and his best 3 consecutive classes were his 1st three here.

in fact, his best 4 consecutive classes signed, were his 1st 4 at IU. (don't forget that Bird was in that 4th class).

yes, he had a couple really good recruiting runs in the late 70s/1980, and early 90s, but RMK's best recruiting success was when he first got here, and his pluses were better publicly known than his downsides.

had he been able to control his demons, IU could have been the nation's dominant program from the time he got here, (and inherited a brand new AH and a great roster), till who knows when.

I’m going to need you to work up a diagram for everything following “food for thought,”.

Thx.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I’m going to need you to work up a diagram for everything following “food for thought,”.

Thx.

yr 1, (the spring where he took over for Lou Watson, pre Nov signing days).

John Lazkowsi, Steve Green, John Kamstra maybe, who i think maybe blew out a knee early on.

yr 2, (1st yr where Knight was IU coach that yr).

Buckner, May, Abernathy, Wilkerson, Crews, a few others

yr 3, Benson, (can't remember who else that yr. thinking 1 other player maybe, maybe not).

yr 4, Larry Bird, Wayne Radford, Rich Valavicious maybe.

Bender, Wisman, others in there somewhere.

just going on memory. guessing you can look it up somewhere, but think i'm correct on the all Big Ten AA level players anyway..

that said, RMK's best recruiting run was when he 1st got here.

 

[Radio Zero]

yr 1, (the spring where he took over for Lou Watson, pre Nov signing days).

John Lazkowsi, Steve Green, John Kamstra maybe, who i think maybe blew out a knee early on.

yr 2, (1st yr where Knight was IU coach that yr).

Buckner, May, Abernathy, Wilkerson, Crews, a few others

yr 3, Benson, (can't remember who else that yr. thinking 1 other player maybe, maybe not).

yr 4, Larry Bird, Wayne Radford, Rich Valavicious maybe.

Bender, Wisman, others in there somewhere.

just going on memory. guessing you can look it up somewhere, but think i'm correct on the all Big Ten AA level players anyway..

that said, RMK's best recruiting run was when he 1st got here.

I’m a bad person.

 

[4IUSox2]

Geddy, you forgot the mercurial Monty Marciccini (spelling may be incorrect) from the brutal class of ‘93. He was from same conference as Mandeville out in Southern California. He just decided not to show up right at start of school, eventually playing for both UVA and a WCAC school.

That class absolutely killed the program momentum of the early 90’s. Say what you will about the next year’s class of Reed, Patterson, Miller not being very successful but they were leaps and bounds better than the one before it.

Love all the Region flavor of this thread. Tim McCallister from West Side in ‘83 left OU as their leading scorer I believe. Winston Garland the same year from Roosevelt to SW Missouri would go on to be a better pro than Alford, James Blackmon, Craig Neal or McCallister, all in the same class.

I recall being pumped reading my pre-season Street + Smith Basketball Magazine that Palombizio would be a Hoosier. Then puzzled when he signed at PU.

Roger Harden winning the ‘82 Mr Basketball over Skiles was a head scratcher. And the Plymouth vs Gary Roosevelt state championship of ‘82 is still the best of many in my mind, despite ‘Velt losing.

Region hoops of the 70’s and 80’s rocked!!

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Boy, you might not consider them "handcuffs," but he fought with Doninger on a number of things that Doninger just flat-out ignored for far, far too long.
1. The team's weight room was an absolute joke. Not a recruiting asset at all.
2. They had no strength and conditioning guy devoted to the team. Tim Garl ran their program.
3. His assistants' pay was ridiculously low. Something like 9th or 10th in the conference. I think only Northwestern paid their assistants less. Both Treloar and Davis were making under $100,000 at the time.

A big sticking point was things Donniger - and Brand - wanted to do.

This was around ‘97, at the time North Carolina and Michigan had both signed lucrative deals with Nike for shoes and apparel; each school got about $2 mil a piece to boot for wearing Nike products. Donniger wanted to sign a similar deal for IU ; he (and Brand) also wanted to put signage (advertising) up in Assembly Hall.
Knight nixed both ideas, which pissed Donniger off. He told Knight “I’m the AD, and we’re going to do this!”

Knight reminded him that although Donniger was Indiana AD, when it came to basketball Knight was, basically, the de facto AD: Knight had it written in his contract that when it came to basketball, Knight had final say over anything related to basketball. His contract had been written that way since 1981, when Knight almost left IU to work college basketball for CBS, who was taking over the NCAA Tournament from NBC (then Landon Turner was in his wreck and Knight had a change of heart).

Part of the reason IU struggled during Knight’s last 6 years was the constant turmoil and back fighting going on between him, Donniger and Brand.

 

[ndhuntington]

I think Dan is right I remember watching a special up close special on espn with Bob Knight and he said that he thought about leaving want to say around mid 90s.

 

[Bippy]

During his show today, Dakich said RMK was “coasting” his last couple seasons. Said that it was fortunate Mike Davis joined the staff, because Mike brought in some good recruits. I suppose Dan should know but is this common knowledge ?

Dakich is absolutely correct. It was obvious to anyone and everyone

 

[Bippy]

I would agree with much of what you say here. My one objection would be that in the early 80's as well as in the mid to late 90's, there wasn't so much a decline in overall talent in the state as much as the talent was in the northern part of the state.
The majority of the Mr. Basketballs during the early to mid- 1980's were from the northern part of the state. Skiles from Plymouth, Brooks and Palombizio from Michigan City Rogers, Harden from Valparaiso, Grose from Warsaw, Jewell from Lafayette, etc. And Knight either struck out trying to get those guys (in the case of Glenn Robinson and Carson Cunningham in the early 90's) or totally ignored guys from this area. One that I know being Tim McAllister from Gary West and Oklahoma.

Knight's last player he signed from the northern part of the state was Luke Recker from Dekalb. Matt Nover from Chesterton was the last guy before Recker. From 1988 until 1997 he signed exactly one guy north of Marion in the state. Let that sink in for a moment.

Lots of good players from this area during that time. Keady poached plenty of them. Big Dog, Jaraan Cornell, Brad Miller, Cunningham, the McQuay Brothers, etc. He seemed to do ok with those guys.

This is the reason why we slipped near the end of Knight's tenure. He ignored or couldn't sign the best players in the state. It was not because he was getting the best players,and they just weren't as talented as in previous years.

Really good post